Starter Suit

[Andy_Copland 0]

I know there is probably a search i can do but to be perfectly honest im useless...simple as that!

Wingsuiting is something i'd like to get involved in, i was looking at starter suit and came across this.

http://www.skydivejersey.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=144

Whats advice would you give, 200 jumps? Has anyone any experience of this suit? Would you recommend another?

Cheers

Andy

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Tonto 1]

If you're going to buy a wingsuit, buy a wingsuit.

The S Fly, Prodigy, GTI, Phantom and Firebird are all OK for 1st flights.
If you're scared of a suit then PF make some mean tracking suits, or BM made the Impact.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[JohanW 0]

The Access is a tracking suit, (more or less) just like the PF or BM products.

For both tracking suits and wingsuits you do need some skills and general experience. 200 is just a number, it's what kind of skydiver you are. 200 may very well not be enough.

If you want to fly wingsuits and go for the huge forward speeds, might as well skip the tracking suits and go straight to a beginner wingsuit (if and when ..) RW suits do a mean track, you don't need a tracking suit for that.

(Tonto, before you get your panties in a wad .. I'm replying to the OP of course)

Johan.
I am. I think.

[mccordia 73]

Quote

The Access is a tracking suit

The performance most people get out of the acces, is quite simulair (or beyond) to what a Classic can and will do, and is definately a step beyond a 'mere' tracking-suit...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[stratman05 0]

I put 6 jumps on one and got better performance out of my tracking suit. It was a wierd body position to hit the spot.

I planned on buying one, but put the jumps in and took a FJC then...I would NOT buy an access, unless you can get it dirt cheap (under $100).

[McDuck 0]

Andy, my brother, I like you, so I'll just say this: Find a wingsuit instructor in your area and ask them to evaluate your skydiving for a while to see if you're ready to fly a wingsuit. It may not be this way for everyone, but learning my new Firebird is a LOT of work for me. I only have around 400 jumps, so I'm not the best source for information. I'll just say that you really need to be on your game in the rest of your skydiving before you start thinking about wingsuit flight. But that's just my humble opinion as a beginner wingsuit pilot.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Whats advice would you give, 200 jumps? Has anyone any experience of this suit? Would you recommend another?

I've had a chance to look over them, but haven't flown one. I know some experienced people that have got fairly ok speeds out of them but nothing staggering.

What I would say if you wanted one is be absolutely sure that the CCI's of your normal DZ's will be happy with you jumping there. Even though you can fall in boxman with an Access if you want some places in the UK can be totally anal about anything remotely winglike.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[stratman05 0]

The wing also flaps on deployment. I had more than one time where it was in the way at pull time...it just made me fish around for it a little more, but wasn't as easy as they make it sound.

[C00KIE 0]

Check the details but if you're going to do it in the UK (which is where you are based?), BPA rules are 200 jumps I believe.

meanwhile, S-fly is a brilliant starter suit I can recommend ("Fly Your Body" see dropzone reveiws) and I have one at Headcorn, so if you want to drop by sometime, let me know and I'll try to be there.

There are a few other birds there who won't mind the attention either...!

Life is a four letter word!

[stratman05 0]

I think he's talking about the s-fly access and not the s-fly expert. I think most agree the s-fly expert is a fine suit.

[C00KIE 0]

Ok, I'm a lazy ass, I never checked the link. Right, S-fly Access.

Actually I've flown them both. The Access performs well, the wings are easy to grip and drop. On the down-side it doesn't look too grand to wear (pants and jacket set-up) and I didn't feel that comfotable either.

I've flocked with an Access too, me wearing the Expert - no problem.

Babylon at Empuriabrava can do a ground school offering the Access for your first few taster jumps and then can put you on to an Expert when you are ready. There's only a small hire fee - so this is what I would recommend.

Life is a four letter word!

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Check the details but if you're going to do it in the UK (which is where you are based?), BPA rules are 200 jumps I believe.

Actually the BPA has no rules concerning wingsuits, it's left to the CCI's discretion.

Unfortunately not many CCIs seem to realise this and treat BPA recommedations as law - so 250 jumps within 18 months or 500 overall, or learn overseas and just carry on when you get back.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Pendragon 1]

It's worth doing a bunch of tracking jumps before you put a wingsuit on. You can also rehearse a wingsuit pull at the end of any skydive - ask a wingsuit pilot what that is.

If you can't track, there's no point making it more complex.

The rules in the UK are there for a particular reason. Leaving the safety aspects aside, you have the ability to cover a lot of ground in a wingsuit. CAA rules regarding dropzones are particularly strict, especially since many DZs have controlled (and busy) airspace to deal with. Going outside of the 1.5nm radius cylinder we have clearance for is a distinct possibility for even a novice flyer, and that's bound to cause problems. After that, there's pretty much going to be tandem/AFF/high-pullers on every load and keeping to your flight plan (and avoiding open canopies) is going to be mandatory. Flying a little too close to a tandem when you've got <10 wingsuit jumps is going to make you particularly popular with the CCI (unless of course, the TI asked you to )

I started when I had 206 skydives. I had done those in <18 months, was very current and had ~30 tracking jumps (all in the previous 2/3 months and practising a wingsuit pull on each) as part of that. That helped enormously. I did my training in Eloy and came back to the UK with 42 wingsuit skydives.

Training abroad is fine; but do have >200 skydives before you do and don't just do one or two whilst you're a abroad - do several (10+) before returning to the UK. That way you'll have much fewer problems and will be taken seriously.

Choose a low performance/friendly suit at first (GTI, Prodigy, Classic II, Acro, Phantom, Firebird), then progress. Initially avoid suits with mylar - could get in the way (Fiirebird-R). Avoid bigger suits until you have experience (S3, S3S, S6, V-1. V-2, Jii-Wings ...). The S-fly expert isn't bad, although I'd still recommend your first few on something else. The S1 will probably just scare you - avoid.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[JohanW 0]

Quote

Quote

The Access is a tracking suit

The performance most people get out of the acces, is quite simulair (or beyond) to what a Classic can and will do, and is definately a step beyond a 'mere' tracking-suit...

We may have to redefine tracking suits and wingsuits one day. If you can reach your toggles without unzipping, for now, I'm calling it a tracking suit. This says nothing about suit performance, and even less about pilot performance. We could start an endless thread of its own about that, I'd guess.

I did qualify my statement a little in the next sentence, which you did not quote.

See you on Friday? I'll be at EHHV as long as the weather holds this week.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[C00KIE 0]

Boy, I remember when I first started and people were quoting jump numbers at me I found it very frustrating but I agree with the above; 200 jumps is an ideal starting point. Sub-200 jumps and you are likely to spend most of your jump scared out of your wits, and flayling around, semi conscious with adrenaline and probably too pig-headed to admit it, thereby learning a big fat zero. There is more to think about with wing suits on the flight-line (check zips, bindings, wing suit cut away, and other fun bits and bobs), again in the plane, and deployment is a real trauma for the first few until you get it right (really gnarly openings, whip lash, line twists, hesitations). The chances are, after 200 jumps you’ve seen enough for these minor dramas not to phase you, gnarly openings etc, and have got the pre-flightline routine down to pat. How good you are as a wingsuiter, in my mind, comes down to how controlled, relaxed and confident you are with every aspect of what you are doing – this leaves you free to respond and fly to your full potential, ie; not just surviving. So yeah, get out there and bang in as many good jumps as possible – track, and free fly exits like they say, also check out autmonauti – by the time you are done you will be one hell of an airman and will probably be able to out fly any of us old timers on any wingsuit.

Meanwhile, if you do get itchy feet, try Babylon at Empuria – they can take you through free-fly, with the intention of developing future wingsuit potential. Speak to Wolf, he’s been doing a lot of flying with wingsuits and including the Access but from the point-of-view of freefly, he’s also good for mentoring the kind of state of mind that you’ll need.

Here, I have a story: I was working on a DZ and collecting a batch of first-time jumpers from a RAPS static line course. I was standing in the landing area looking up at one guy and suddenly he cut away, he was at about 1000 feet. His reserve opened and he landed safely right in front of me, so I thought I’d prepare him for the barrage of questions he will get from the instructors back at the DZ and I asked him to tell me what happened. This is EXACTLY what he said: “Well, I jumped and the parachute opened and it looked ok at first, but then I thought, no, something is wrong, so I cut away, and the reserve opened and I thought, no, it looks just the same”. He wasn’t joking, I swear. I guess at times we really don’t know the crazy danger we’re putting ourselves in when following our desires…but then later, after a few hundred jumps, we realise. At the same DZ three or four weeks ago a first timer went-in that cut away at a little less than that height. I the guy I met was a lucky guy, eh?

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

200 jumps is an ideal starting point. Sub-200 jumps and you are likely to spend most of your jump scared out of your wits, and flayling around, semi conscious with adrenaline and probably too pig-headed to admit it, thereby learning a big fat zero.

That I disagree with, for one thing because you make it sound like 200 jumps brings some magic step up in knowledge that you didn't have at, say, 190 jumps. Mostly though, because with a beginner wingsuit (eg. a Classic) the flight itself is really, really easy. I have little doubt that I could have jumped a classic for the first time with ~150 jumps and been dead stable from exit to pull time inclusive.

I think that what you say next, the added complications that a wingsuit brings if something does go wrong, is the reason why people should wait for decent jump numbers before their first flight. Not because they have better in air skills per se, but because they are much more likely to have developed the calmness and spare mental capacity to let them deal with the problems.


(Not advocating that people should strap a suit on before 200 jumps, just rambling)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[C00KIE 0]

Hey, what's more 'magical' than growing wings?

Only thinking of jumps in round numbers of a hundred - sorry for confusion!

Life is a four letter word!

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Hey, what's more 'magical' than growing wings?

Hehe, who can argue with that!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Pendragon 1]

I nearly started at 182 jumps, but ran out of weather. I had 25 tracking jumps in 2 weeks at the time. So, yes, theoretically you can bend things a little, although you would need to find someone willing.

The following are IMHO important:

Currency. Those who are can start with lower jump #s and will have a better experience than uncurrent "fledglings"
Ability to track. Flying a wingsuit is like a high-performance track. If you can't do that, forget it.
Wingsuit choice. Picking a Prodigy, GTI, Classic II etc is going to provide a more forgiving, pleasant experience. Taking an S3 out on one's first flight is fine until you accidentally expose a bit of your leg wing on exit, end up barrel-rolling out of the door onto your back and spinning
Being aware in-flight. I don't care what any young newly started jumper thinks, but enough awareness (of where you are above the ground) is probably not going to have developed until you are well over 150 skydives. Unless you like hitting canopies in freefall, or landing off all the time...

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13