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B.A.S.E. WINGSUIT QUESTION ABOUT OPENINGS.

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have recently been debating doing a wingsuit B.A.S.E. jump/flight.

basically wanting to hear differen't opinions about openings. skydiving openings with a d-bag vs. B.A.S.E. openings without a bag what to expect etc.

vented/non vented issues. what you do in your packjob that might be differen't than your normal terminal B.A.S.E. jump if any?.

AND anything else you can throw in..

thanks.
NPS SUX ASS

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...basically wanting to hear differen't opinions about openings. skydiving openings with a d-bag vs. B.A.S.E. openings without a bag what to expect etc.



My BASE openings have been much nicer than my skydiving openings. I think the lack of bag helps my heading performance because there is no chance of the pack job spinning on the way to line stretch.

My first several BASE wingsuit openings were kind of nasty, because I was pitching from full flight and got some wobble, which threw me into line twists under the canopy (openings were mostly on heading though--it was my body spinning under the already inflated canopy that caused the twists). Be sure to practice full flight pitches on skydives if you intend to use them BASE jumping.

Also, be sure that you either go with a full flight style pitch (which is my personal preference), or a full stop (and fall straight down) style pitch. Going somewhere in between can cause a great deal of turbulence around your inflating PC.



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vented/non vented issues. what you do in your packjob that might be differen't than your normal terminal B.A.S.E. jump if any?



I'd use a bigger PC. I know people who swear by extra long bridles (11' or so), but personally I don't think they're really necessary. For wingsuit flights, I like a 38" PC (which is what I use for the subterminal slider up range [5-8 seconds] as well).

I haven't had any issues with vented canopies--they seem to behave just the same as they do on standard terminal BASE jumps.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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cool. thanks tom a. i really appreciate your advice. also would like to ask if having a canopy made for terminal and wingsuit B.A.S.E. jumps without vents is a good idea?? or having fewer put on in strategic places. one only on the center cell etc. i've heard of a few people doing this.


thanks
NPS SUX ASS

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In my experience, the terminal jumps I have done with my black jack 260 compared to my dagger 266 the openings are a lot "smoother." The Dagger, to me, seems to open up very abrupt. I have small mesh on both canopies and pack them both the same way.

This is not to say that vented canopies will open "smoother," just that it was surprising to me.

Having taken both canopies on numerous BM skydives I have had no issues other the the Blackjack opening "smoother"

I have no issues with vented canopies and would jump one on any terminal jump with a small mesh slider and correctly sized pilotchute.

YMMV
Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

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Yo!

In my experience, BASE WS openings are better than terminal non-WS ones. This is quite different from skydiving environment, where WS openings are a bit worse than non-WS.

Vents make no difference. I use 38" PC and a standard BASE bridle.

Pulling in full flight works very well. Be sure to stay stable, any asymmetry can convert your forward speed into line twists.

bsbd!

Yuri.

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thanks. so basically because of no d-bag it's better.

yuri and tom a. both have said to use a 38 inch pilot chute. just asking how come? why not smaller like a 36 or 32. i'm only asking out of ignorance. i think i know why but would like to hear from you guys.

thanks
NPS SUX ASS

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yuri and tom a. both have said to use a 38 inch pilot chute. just asking how come? why not smaller like a 36 or 32.



Because of a bigger burble and, depending on your flight style, a slightly lower total airspeed.

Many people do use 36, there isn't that much of a difference. I would not feel comfortable with 32, though.

bsbd!

Yuri.

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thanks yuri. can i ask one more question???


what do you think about no vents or minimal vents.

like one on the center cell. for terminal jump?

im having a flik made right now and i'm debating a NO vent OR one vent situation and questioning having a multi in play as well.

any opions on the multi and wingsuits????????????
thank you.
NPS SUX ASS

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I've got a vented Fox and the openings don't bother me in the least. I definitely prefer the vents for low slider down stuff, which is why I just bought a Blackjack for a wingsuit (mostly) canopy rather than an Ace.
A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world.
-TJ

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To qualify: I have 41 WS BASE jumps with 2 different canopies, 2 different suits, 2 different containers, and 6 different exit points (cliffs only so far).

I prefer my non-vented Ace without a multi (I think the multi is too complicated for a ws jump). I use a vented 36 and a 12 foot bridle. I use the long bridle to get the pc out of the burble so I can use a smaller pc. I like using the smallest pc I can get away with so the center cell doesn't get distorted (especially assymetric stripping that might cause off heading - leading to line-twistB|) This is also why I use a vented pc.

My experience with my vented Black Jack is that the openings are very hard. Not a big deal, but it does help throw you off axis and maybe into line-twistB| But if I'm gonna pull dirty low (or lower:ph34r:) I'd use my Black Jack.

I would advise going to James' WS seminar at Bridge Day before you try to jump off anything with a ws for the first time. With the exception of hot air balloons over 2000ft - have at that.

Hope this helps.
-Bill

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what do you think about no vents or minimal vents.



Vents are irrelevant on WS jumps, or slider-up jumps in general. If you plan on using the same canopy slider-down, get vents. If this is a slider-up only canopy, go without vents.

Given the same slider, vented canopies may open a bit harder. Quite naturally, this is fixed by changing a slider. I am amazed how many people complain about this part instead of switching to small mesh or sail slider or something in between ;)

bsbd!

Yuri.

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Vents are irrelevant on WS jumps, or slider-up jumps in general. If you plan on using the same canopy slider-down, get vents. If this is a slider-up only canopy, go without vents.===============================
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this canopy will be dedicated to higher altitude jumps with a small mesh slider and wingsuit in mind. i will try ballon first as well. --------------------------

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I am amazed how many people complain about this part instead of switching to small mesh or sail slider or something in between


what is in between??? is there a half sail half small mesh. that's a good idea??or is it??? sounds good in theory.

thanks and any more advice is very welcome.

NPS SUX ASS

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hey tom have you tried this. and do you currently do this or what i'm trying to say is, is this your preferred method. i'm going to quess you use small mesh?? if not where would you get a sail slider for B.A.S.E. with this modification.
i guess apex probably sells them or could make one (they probably don't push the idea--i'm assuming).
um anyway i didn't expect to ask soooo many questions about this. i quess this would/will be a pretty big step in my short lived B.A.S.E career so.....
i quess every little thing that pops into my little brain i'm going to ask. the canopy thing though was about do i really need this if it's primarily for wingsuit and why spend the money... and now i'm concerned with BD or slamming opening that might hurt me low to the ground!

thanks for all your input!!!
NPS SUX ASS

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Do you have the discipline to keep yourself from doing something low with an unvented canopy that would be made safer by jumping with vents? I don't, and that's why I got vents.

Bridge Day shouldn't be a concern for vents. Of my 40 or so jumps off that object, each one with vents, every opening has been very soft simply because a 4-5.5s delay slider up opening won't be very fast. The worst I've had with my Fox was on an 11s delay pitching in a full track. Gave me a bit of whiplash and some bruises, but it wasn't until I landed that I felt the pain.
A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world.
-TJ

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hey tom have you tried this. and do you currently do this or what i'm trying to say is, is this your preferred method. i'm going to quess you use small mesh?? if not where would you get a sail slider for B.A.S.E. with this modification.



I mostly use large mesh, personally. I just accept that my openings are going to be faster/harder. Even with all the hardware in my spine, I still find them tolerable, but if I wanted to make 6 or 7 terminal jumps in a day (or night) I might switch the slider out.

You can get a sail slider for almost any BASE canopy. If the manufacturer won't make you one (which would be weird, I think), you can just get a competent rigger to sew one up.

Most of the folks with holes cut in their sail sliders cut the holes themselves. I even saw one guy who had a 10 year old illiterate mexican villager do it for him (that sounds like I'm exaggerating, but I've got photos somewhere to prove it). The best methods I've seen are either a single coffee can sized hold dead center, or a set of 4 or 6 coke can sized holes spread symmetrically.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Do you have the discipline to keep yourself from doing something low with an unvented canopy that would be made safer by jumping with vents? I don't, and that's why I got vents.



this canopy will be used for terminal with my future wingsuit adventures in mind.

thanks.

NPS SUX ASS

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I mostly use large mesh, personally. I just accept that my openings are going to be faster/harder. Even with all the hardware in my spine, I still find them tolerable




is that because the faster it opens the less time your body has the distort the opening?? or because of being low to the ground and you want it open without issue or possibly both????

i know sometimes in skydiving the longer my opening took opening in full flight that if my body moved a little right or left as slider tooks it's time coming down my canopy would almost or go into subtle or full blown line twist or usually when i went asymetric a more wild off heading opening

but i've learned to just look up and pull symetric and go limp like a noodle not moving at all let it happen all at the same time (all in about 1/2 second) my openings are twist free but depending on how i packed my nose sometimes not on heading--damn that d-bag.
.
on a side note i've always thought about making a skydiving rig dedicated to wingsuit with a tail pocket on my canopy or just using my B.A.S.E. canopy. no d-bag. and small mesh slider. just an idea. would require a differen't sized container.

cool ideas on the sail slider.

thanks again tom a.
NPS SUX ASS

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The best methods I've seen are either a single coffee can sized hold dead center, or a set of 4 or 6 coke can sized holes spread symmetrically.



cut (if soda can) and heat the can you wish to use, then presss it to the material, as opposed to tracing circles w/marker and cutting by hand..

just a thought.


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