unclecharlie95 3 #1 August 3, 2006 Hi, I am trying to get in touch with the person posting on the wingsuit wiki with the IP address: 216.177.120.72 Location comes out as US, host name 72.dynamic.para-concepts.com Thanks for your help. Long flights, J ps. if anyone wants to help me write a more complete history of ws for the wiki drop me a PM.BASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #2 August 4, 2006 it seems like it was someone at skydive chicago. since that would be their network. if it was recent, there are many people there since it's summerfest, including lou diamond so it could possibly be him Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #3 August 4, 2006 Quoteit seems like it was someone at skydive chicago. since that would be their network. if it was recent, there are many people there since it's summerfest, including lou diamond so it could possibly be him I'm at SDC, who are you looking for? There are lots of DZ.com posters here."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #4 August 4, 2006 Do you mean the wiki in en.wikipedia.org? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #5 August 4, 2006 QuoteI'm at SDC, who are you looking for? The loser who keeps editing the wingsuit wiki to remove the fact that Robert Pecnik designed the Birdman Classic. Please put out a call at manifest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #6 August 4, 2006 WTF is a wiki?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratman05 0 #7 August 4, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying But you should really watch The Colbert Report to get better info on Wikipeida.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHm0rGns4I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #8 August 4, 2006 Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying Thats pretty cool.I'll have to read it all when I get a moment. But you should really watch The Colbert Report to get better info on Wikipeida.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHm0rGns4I Bwaaahhhhhh!! That is some funny shit. Al Gore invented the wingsuit , just ask him."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #9 August 5, 2006 OK, I had some time and I read the "wiki". It's a very good synopsis but I am still not seeing what the issue is here."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Costyn 0 #10 August 7, 2006 QuoteOK, I had some time and I read the "wiki". It's a very good synopsis but I am still not seeing what the issue is here. If you look at the history of the page, you'll see that there is a little edit war going on between UncleCharlie (James) and the user at the IP address in question. It seems that the user doesn't want to accept that it was Robert who, while working at Bird-Man, apparently did most (all?) of the design work on the original Bird-Man classic? James had put in this information in the wiki, then the user removed it, James added it, user removed it, etc etc. That's one of the problems with wiki's. It usually happens with controversial topics like religion and politics, but wingsuits are near & dear to a lot of people too. James has correctly started a thread on the discussion wiki page, but I don't think "the user" has seen it or paid attention to it. This would be the place to discuss whether to inlcude or not include the information on Robert Pecnik and the Bird-Man Classic, not this thread on dz.com. But, I understand James' frustration with the edit war. Hope you can resolve it, James. Cheers, Costyn.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #11 August 7, 2006 QuoteIt seems that the user doesn't want to accept that it was Robert who, while working at Bird-Man, apparently did most (all?) of the design work on the original Bird-Man classic? Is that what this is all about? Well since everyone who was intially involved with this is still alive, its easily verifiable,from different sources, with a simple e-mail to either Jari, Robert, Stane Krancj or Irene Hessling. For what it is worth, the super short history of it goes like this. 11 suits were initially made before arriving at the Classic. All 4 of the above people were involved in either testing, cutting fabric or in design input at some stage. No single individual is solely responsible for the development of the Classic, it was a combined effort using Patrics suit as a starting point. Now that I understand what the fuss is, it explains a weird conversation I had recently. James, PM me, I may be able to shed some light on this."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Buried 0 #12 August 7, 2006 if the IP address doesn't change and you really care then you could probably contact Kirk or Besty at para concepts and ask them who it may be. I'm pretty certain their network is MAC address restricted so they should know who the person is. Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unclecharlie95 3 #13 August 7, 2006 I'm sorry Scott, what you posted is NOT TRUE. This is the exact reason WHY I KEEP CORRECTING THE WIKIPEDIA. Let us resolve something once and for all. From Robert Pecnik: "The first suit was designed and made by me in October 1998 (yes, it was based on a small picture of Patrick) and I made about 10 jumps with it in the beginning of November of 1998. This was about 6 months before any of the people Scott mentioned in his post even saw the suit. (with the exeption of Stane Krajnc, as the wings were made at his factory). The design, template preparation and technological chart for every wingsuit produced by BM between 1998 until 2004 were made by me. I am not interested in starting arguments, or proving anything here but I felt I needed to say something before this incorrect story becomes the "history" people believe. Regards, Robert Pecnik"BASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #14 August 7, 2006 James, I really don't care to be dragged into this any more than I already have been. I have spoken with Robert already and if you wish, we can continue this in PM and perhaps then you can get it all sorted. I really wish people(WS community) would focus less on the the drama and more on the fun of flying."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unclecharlie95 3 #15 August 7, 2006 PM sent.BASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dploi 0 #16 August 8, 2006 It's always been my understanding, having known both parties involved, that while Jari shared "the dream", ran the business, and hucked his meat from planes and cliffs in the prototypes, the actually design and construction came from Robert. I think the line between "dream" and "design concept" can be blurred in the eyes' of the beholder. For me, there is a big difference between, "I think it'd be cool have a inlets on the back for backflying", and knowing exactly where to put the inlets to make them effective. I would not credit the prior to the design at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tr027 0 #17 August 8, 2006 IMHO, I don't think James is being dramatic, merely trying to have the facts correctly reported so that history is as accurate as possible, and that respective credit is given where credit is due."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #18 August 8, 2006 I really wish people(WS community) would focus less on the the drama and more on the fun of flying. Hey now, I'm all about the funk. Just ask my flunky flocking friends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 August 4, 2006 WTF is a wiki?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratman05 0 #7 August 4, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying But you should really watch The Colbert Report to get better info on Wikipeida.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHm0rGns4I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #8 August 4, 2006 Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying Thats pretty cool.I'll have to read it all when I get a moment. But you should really watch The Colbert Report to get better info on Wikipeida.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHm0rGns4I Bwaaahhhhhh!! That is some funny shit. Al Gore invented the wingsuit , just ask him."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #9 August 5, 2006 OK, I had some time and I read the "wiki". It's a very good synopsis but I am still not seeing what the issue is here."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #10 August 7, 2006 QuoteOK, I had some time and I read the "wiki". It's a very good synopsis but I am still not seeing what the issue is here. If you look at the history of the page, you'll see that there is a little edit war going on between UncleCharlie (James) and the user at the IP address in question. It seems that the user doesn't want to accept that it was Robert who, while working at Bird-Man, apparently did most (all?) of the design work on the original Bird-Man classic? James had put in this information in the wiki, then the user removed it, James added it, user removed it, etc etc. That's one of the problems with wiki's. It usually happens with controversial topics like religion and politics, but wingsuits are near & dear to a lot of people too. James has correctly started a thread on the discussion wiki page, but I don't think "the user" has seen it or paid attention to it. This would be the place to discuss whether to inlcude or not include the information on Robert Pecnik and the Bird-Man Classic, not this thread on dz.com. But, I understand James' frustration with the edit war. Hope you can resolve it, James. Cheers, Costyn.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #11 August 7, 2006 QuoteIt seems that the user doesn't want to accept that it was Robert who, while working at Bird-Man, apparently did most (all?) of the design work on the original Bird-Man classic? Is that what this is all about? Well since everyone who was intially involved with this is still alive, its easily verifiable,from different sources, with a simple e-mail to either Jari, Robert, Stane Krancj or Irene Hessling. For what it is worth, the super short history of it goes like this. 11 suits were initially made before arriving at the Classic. All 4 of the above people were involved in either testing, cutting fabric or in design input at some stage. No single individual is solely responsible for the development of the Classic, it was a combined effort using Patrics suit as a starting point. Now that I understand what the fuss is, it explains a weird conversation I had recently. James, PM me, I may be able to shed some light on this."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #12 August 7, 2006 if the IP address doesn't change and you really care then you could probably contact Kirk or Besty at para concepts and ask them who it may be. I'm pretty certain their network is MAC address restricted so they should know who the person is. Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie95 3 #13 August 7, 2006 I'm sorry Scott, what you posted is NOT TRUE. This is the exact reason WHY I KEEP CORRECTING THE WIKIPEDIA. Let us resolve something once and for all. From Robert Pecnik: "The first suit was designed and made by me in October 1998 (yes, it was based on a small picture of Patrick) and I made about 10 jumps with it in the beginning of November of 1998. This was about 6 months before any of the people Scott mentioned in his post even saw the suit. (with the exeption of Stane Krajnc, as the wings were made at his factory). The design, template preparation and technological chart for every wingsuit produced by BM between 1998 until 2004 were made by me. I am not interested in starting arguments, or proving anything here but I felt I needed to say something before this incorrect story becomes the "history" people believe. Regards, Robert Pecnik"BASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #14 August 7, 2006 James, I really don't care to be dragged into this any more than I already have been. I have spoken with Robert already and if you wish, we can continue this in PM and perhaps then you can get it all sorted. I really wish people(WS community) would focus less on the the drama and more on the fun of flying."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie95 3 #15 August 7, 2006 PM sent.BASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dploi 0 #16 August 8, 2006 It's always been my understanding, having known both parties involved, that while Jari shared "the dream", ran the business, and hucked his meat from planes and cliffs in the prototypes, the actually design and construction came from Robert. I think the line between "dream" and "design concept" can be blurred in the eyes' of the beholder. For me, there is a big difference between, "I think it'd be cool have a inlets on the back for backflying", and knowing exactly where to put the inlets to make them effective. I would not credit the prior to the design at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #17 August 8, 2006 IMHO, I don't think James is being dramatic, merely trying to have the facts correctly reported so that history is as accurate as possible, and that respective credit is given where credit is due."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #18 August 8, 2006 I really wish people(WS community) would focus less on the the drama and more on the fun of flying. Hey now, I'm all about the funk. Just ask my flunky flocking friends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie95 3 #19 August 10, 2006 The search goes on. IP Address: 69.168.192.199 Hostname: 69-168-192-199.bflony.adelphia.net Scranton, Pennsylvania If the person making the changes is reading this forum please "login" to Wiki or contact me directly. JBASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #20 August 10, 2006 The chances are that they are registered on dropzone.com. I wonder if any moderators on this site would be willing to try to correlate the IP address and edit time (which timezone is it displaying in on the wiki sit) with a username on here?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #21 August 10, 2006 That's my IP dude. I removed the Al Gore BS and added Tony Suit on the list.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #22 August 10, 2006 Oh yeah, it's 66.89.150.222 that made the change. Someone out of Tampa, Florida.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #23 August 10, 2006 Weird since I can't think of anybody in Tampa who doesn't lean heavily toward PF. And yes James, I realize this is a matter of history and not "BM vs PF", but in reality "history is written by the winners" is applicable, or in this case history is slanted by the brandwar. That comment is NOT pointing fingers at anyone or any side, and I am not taking sides (I just ordered an Acro though ) and I don't know the truth to the matter. All I'm saying is it surprises me that somebody in Tampa made that edit. Somebody who was at Summerfest, who is now in Tampa. Surely that narrows down your search. Gotta be somebody I know. But, to get a bit more pensive: I just referenced the "history is written by the winners" quote. Again, I don't know the truth to this story, but if you (James) and our mystery Summerfest->Tampa traveler both have opposite opinions of the same history, you really can't stop him from making his edits, based on the way a Wiki works (I think). Although it does seem cowardly that he won't own up to his edits, which you are at least doing, even posting your email next to your last edit. But even when you find out who he is, will that solve anything?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbla4024 0 #24 August 10, 2006 That's just not true. Everybody knows that wingsuit invented by famous Czech scientist Jara Cimrman. As well as electric bulb, dynamit and bikini. :-D Fido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #25 August 10, 2006 if the person was smart they should start using proxies from around the world.. oh my now the person is in China, and the UK, and Italy! Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites