The Mystery Of Hanwags, or How To Fly Phantom at 2.9

[Professor 0]

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Robi's word for shoes that do not allow the ankle to articulate was 'crap'.

Interesting to know. I've never jumped a wingsuit in anything but tennis shoes, I was just speculating.

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Ted's explanation is a reasonable one but at the same time the numbers he is comparing to the ones posted are apples and oranges.

OK, some of the same flyers who are posting big numbers just reported averaging less than 2:1 at the Stupino boogie.

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The 2.9 posted by Yuri is not an lie or calculation error, it just has to be taken in context. His calculation of glide starts at a speed of 104 mph.

As an example, in college I was running the 100m in 11.2-11.4 secs....a flying 100m (or the 100m timed by starting 10m behind the line and timing the last 100m ) was 10.4 secs.

Yeah, I looked at the data more closely, and I see your point. I see what he did there.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[bert_man 0]

A few weeks ago, I was actually able to achieve level flight for at least 10 seconds. No hanwags, no base rig...

Unfortunately, my performance dropped considerably once I left the plane

-Ghetto
"The reason death cannot frighten me, is because life has cured me of fear."
Web Design
Cleveland Skydiving

[jakee 1,254]

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A few weeks ago, I was actually able to achieve level flight for at least 10 seconds. No hanwags, no base rig...

Unfortunately, my performance dropped considerably once I left the plane

Shit dude, if you'd stayed in a couple more minutes you'd have been the first guy to ever land a wingsuit!

What an opportunity missed.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[yuri_base 1]

Yo!

Here's the flight 24hrs after the first one. No clown shoes, plus top-mount camera. Same rig.

L/D = 2.1

From this historical day on, if you don't jump in clown shoes, you can't fly, you can just hardly move forward.

Yuri

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[lurch 0]

The tongue in cheek sarcasm and mild flaming would be more amusing if it weren't also utterly predictable. I AM wondering though when everyone gets bored with hacking on Yuri for his efforts to try a different approach, will anyone have actually offered any positive suggestions?
Just a thought...

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[The111 0]

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will anyone have actually offered any positive suggestions?

Sure, here goes. Fly your body, not your shoes.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Professor 0]

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I AM wondering though when everyone gets bored with hacking on Yuri for his efforts to try a different approach, will anyone have actually offered any positive suggestions?
Just a thought...

First off, I'm not trying to "hack on Yuri". I'm Just pointing out some questions I have about his results. I don't think you can deny that he's made a very bold claim here, and scepticism is the appropriate scientfic response to bold claims.

Second, Yuri is not the first person to fly Hanwags.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[TomAiello 25]

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Flippers!

I've seen some very good tracking done in scuba fins.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[The111 0]

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with NO wingsuit i have seen paople achieve a track of almost 2/1 GR.

This is another very bold claim. These guys, whoever they are, could have placed @ the world wingsuit comp I guess (without suits) since 2nd and 3rd place distance were around GR 1.7.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[The111 0]

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Flippers!

I've seen some very good tracking done in scuba fins.

My freediving fins. I'll bet anybody tries to jump in these ruins their ankles.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[lurch 0]

Well spoken, sir.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[lurch 0]

Hmmm... nope.
Can't argue with any of that.
But what exactly is so special about Hanwags anyway?
Why Hanwags specifically? I figured my own experience with Caterpillar boots was exempt from Robi's evaluation of "crap" because they aren't rigid. Cats are my combat-stompers of choice because they're both totally bulletproof and easy to run in with plenty of ankle support but plenty of flex to them, although whether or not their weight and trim effects actually help still was subjective and open to debate and verification. But what makes Hanwags a self-suggesting enough choice that they've been done before anyway?
Now I'm REALLY baffled, and inquiring minds want to know. (starts googling Hanwags in fulfillment of role as Principal Investigator of Mystery of Clown Shoes...)
Do they have little wings on em or something?

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[diablopilot 2]

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Dude.
what makes you think im in the rear of the kingair?

CH
Single and Multiengine commercial instrument pilot

i mean, the man took my ticket away from the injury, but ill get it back in a month or so.

Who said anything about a king air. They don't have one where I jump. I just asked how you're legaly jumping a single parachute system from an aircraft regulated by the FAA. Of course you might be rich and have a surpluss of aircraft around you don't mind crashing everytime you want to "jump".

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Professor 0]

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But what exactly is so special about Hanwags anyway?

Nothing. That's everyone's point.

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Why Hanwags specifically?

Hanwags are the kickers of choice for BASE jumpers. Large hiking boots in general are popular because of their ankle support and the need to hike to exit points.

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I figured my own experience with Caterpillar boots was exempt from Robi's evaluation of "crap" because they aren't rigid.

Possibly, then.

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Do they have little wings on em or something?

No, but they are powder blue, and say "FLY" on the side, making them look devastatingly gay.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[Calvin19 0]

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Oh and what country are you making these "legal" single parachute jumps from A/C?

Sorry,
MOST single parchute jumps from US A/Cs are illegal. of course, technicaly, a lot of certified parachute jumps from US A/C are illegal. (if someone ACTUALY reads the FARs like I do -A LOT- they would see that there is a ot more to it than a notam and in date reserve, IE-ATC control, traffic notification, Exiting OVER own or permissed property, Cloud clearences, distance from runways, Etc, Etc. )
But, From Experience, one CAN get a permit to use a single parachute system LEGALY out of a US aircraft. its just a matter of dealing with the red tape,
but, thats a bitch. and i dont like rules anyway. they are bad for the soul. breaking them on the other hand, is good for it.

Anyways, my talking out my Arse and your trying to get me to make a mistake (and i have) is not something we shout do on a Hanwags forum.

CH
Be well, sorry for me needing attention.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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But, From Experience, one CAN get a permit to use a single parachute system LEGALY out of a US aircraft. its just a matter of dealing with the red tape,
but, thats a bitch.

You might use the german trick.

[lurch 0]

"No, but they are powder blue, and say "FLY" on the side, making them look devastatingly gay."
Ok I scoped out the Hanwags and although I dislike negativity, those boots are just trying WAAAY too hard. My Cats are a lot uglier, but likely more durable for 1/3 the cost and without the "boutique chic" attached to them.
Yuri, mind if I offer a suggestion/prediction?
Try this again from full altitude a few times and post the results.
I think you may find what you've managed is an admirably perfect planeout, but if you hold it too long you'll drop like a brick. Reason I'm being specific here is it occurred to me if you try this on a base jump and don't see the stall coming you may not make the distance you need at a critical time and place, or may find yourself being surprised by a sudden lack of drive when you need it most and expected it to be there. I've done this to myself both on high speed exits and at around 7000 feet during prolonged efforts to fly at below minimum flying speeds. What I got was the equivalent to a midflight still-air exit, suddenly wobbled, flailed, and pitched over head down, having achieved near-zero airspeed in all directions, with the inevitable outcome of simply dropping out of the sky till I had enough airspeed back to resume flying.
Try it somewhere up high and not too far from the dz where its safe and you won't land out if you don't get the flight range you expect, and be prepared to deploy early but only -after- you recover and start to fly again, since opening canopy during a fully developed stallout could be messy. I hope you're flying a nonelliptical canopy that will forgive unstable openings... you are, right? If not, you're severely stacking the odds against yourself. The place for these sort of experiments is way up high where theres room to recover without pushing the hard deck. Its fun!

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[980 0]

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Ok I scoped out the Hanwags and although I dislike negativity, those boots are just trying WAAAY too hard. My Cats are a lot uglier, but likely more durable for 1/3 the cost and without the "boutique chic" attached to them.

don't be dissing the Hanwags

Hanwags are the bomb. Mine have over 300 basejumps on them now with all the hiking, climbing and general abuse that comes with the territory.

I bought a pair of Cats as work shoes about 3 years ago and have worn them a lot as they are comfy and I can assure you that the Hanwags are in a different league altogether.

Hanwags have goretex, are easy to hike with, easy to climb with, better to edge with, less slippery than any Cats I've seen and so supportive that I felt comfortable climbing and jumping in them after spraining my ankle swooping earlier the same day (in skate shoes).

They may look funny but they are the most functional footwear I have come across for basejumping and that means they hike well, climb well and provide lots of support for very little snag points.

If you're not manly enough to handle the blue, you can get a slightly different version in mainly black with some red.

[Zoter 0]

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you can get a slightly different version in mainly black with some red.

Is that 'mainly' or 'man -ley'

Hanwag support crew in the house.....these boots are comfy for everything....climbing,hiking and jumping (OK BASE anyways)....really really comfy,durable boots

[yuri_base 1]

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I think you may find what you've managed is an admirably perfect planeout, but if you hold it too long you'll drop like a brick.

The deceleration - less than 1mph per second, according to data - was not noticeable at all, and it definitely felt like stable sustained flight that can last indefinitely given unlimited altitude and strength. I simply made more adjustments and stretching into the flight as the air was so amazingly quiet that I could feel any change much better. I bet if you were flying nearby, we could talk, so quiet it was.

30mph! (some points are even low 20's, but the average is 30)

Those additional adjustments caused, I believe, the slow decrease in speed. I don't think 1mph/s deceleration can make 225lbs. brick fly at 30mph for 25 seconds by milking the kinetic energy into planeout.

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having achieved near-zero airspeed in all directions

Are you saying that if there was a big haystack right at that point, you'd land the wingsuit? Practice that move, Brian, maybe someday you'll wonder, "why I wasn't doing it many years ago, it's so EASY!?"

I'll definitely try all these experiments in a couple of weeks, for now I'll be jumping Blue Gay Shoes in zero L/D environment.
Yuri

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[BenediktDE 2]

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You might use the german trick.

What is the "german trick"?

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[lurch 0]

"don't be dissing the Hanwags"
Apologies, 980, apologies.
Having not worn them anyway all I can do is judge them by appearances. I will certainly acknowledge they're a different class of boot than Cats so pitting them against each other is like Corvette Versus Porsche. Corvettes kick ass, but against a Porsche they look crude and unrefined by comparison.

As for the near-zero-mph haystack thing, perhaps Jeb Jari Loic Robi Chuck Perry or Scott would be better choices for that... they only have a zillion times my experience in the art and I'd like to helpfully suggest that they would be better-qualified for on-demand haystack-thumping than myself. Call me a chicken if you will, but at least I'll remain a LIVE chicken.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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I think you may find what you've managed is an admirably perfect planeout, but if you hold it too long you'll drop like a brick.

The deceleration - less than 1mph per second, according to data - was not noticeable at all, and it definitely felt like stable sustained flight that can last indefinitely given unlimited altitude and strength. I simply made more adjustments and stretching into the flight as the air was so amazingly quiet that I could feel any change much better. I bet if you were flying nearby, we could talk, so quiet it was.

30mph! (some points are even low 20's, but the average is 30)

Those additional adjustments caused, I believe, the slow decrease in speed. I don't think 1mph/s deceleration can make 225lbs. brick fly at 30mph for 25 seconds by milking the kinetic energy into planeout.

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having achieved near-zero airspeed in all directions

Are you saying that if there was a big haystack right at that point, you'd land the wingsuit? Practice that move, Brian, maybe someday you'll wonder, "why I wasn't doing it many years ago, it's so EASY!?"

I'll definitely try all these experiments in a couple of weeks, for now I'll be jumping Blue Gay Shoes in zero L/D environment.
Yuri

Ahhhhhh.......this is the oldest mistake in the book. If we want to believe something we find all sorts of ways to rationalize it.

Kris.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Having a belly mounted reserve on BASE gear, so you can you it from any airplane. BASE rigs in Germany has attachment points for that kind of reserve. And if you are fully deployed over 600m that could be just a skydive even you do with BASE rig.

[maretus 0]

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Having a belly mounted reserve on BASE gear, so you can you it from any airplane. BASE rigs in Germany has attachment points for that kind of reserve. And if you are fully deployed over 600m that could be just a skydive even you do with BASE rig.

Incorrect. In finland for example all gear used in skydiving must be TSO'd which base gear generally is not. Harness/container systems and reserves need also to be accepted to use by the FAA (Finnish Aeronautical Association) so at least here you cannot just hook a belly mount reserve to you base rig and jump it from AC.

http://www.ufufreefly.com