unclecharlie95 3 #76 February 23, 2006 Quotebecause he feels it is too much fun to fly. because otherwise he out flies everyone in his V1BASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yuri_base 1 #77 February 23, 2006 QuoteWould be good that you start first.... writing the ideas is way easier than sewing anything... ...and for someone else, sewing is easier than thinking. But it's the idea that should come first, not the sewing. If the two find each other, a new suit will be born. So, who can sew here? Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iXic 0 #78 February 23, 2006 I can knit - might not add up to performance, but would look cool and fashionable! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #79 February 23, 2006 QuoteThe most important is that we are able to fock together and longer no matter if you are using PF, BM or any other great performance suit that exists today. Aah, then you're going to love the new new BM suit called the Phiagra. Apparently it lets you fock for hours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #80 February 23, 2006 QuoteI have seen a PF(C)I refuse to get rid of his S.3 because he feels it is too much fun to fly. Mee too! I still keep my old S3 prototype because it is a fun suit, cute and with a lot of history. You should have seen Robi's face when i had it shipped to France to replace V1, because i thought for a short while Vampire wasn't flying as good as my old suit.... that was right before i figured out how to fly V1 correctly. I only had to put them side by side once to see the light There are no disparaging remarks being said here. We discuss perfomance - which is pure, cold numbers. Other than that, all suits i have enjoyed flying so far have been cute, quality built and a lot of fun bsbd! Yuri. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #81 February 23, 2006 QuoteI have seen a PF(C)I refuse to get rid of his S.3 because he feels it is too much fun to fly. Kinda reminds me of my 2nd or 3rd jump on a V?. The plan was for me to exit and try to make the suit haul ass as much as possible. A PF(C)I (with many more jumps on a S? than I have in total) was going to exit just after me, in his S? and get video of this. I got slightly ahead on exit and didn’t see him again ‘til after landing, when he said that he got the exit, but then I just took off and he wasn’t going to spend the whole skydive chasing me in a V? with his S?, whereas he might have in his V?. There’s no doubt that he’s the better WS pilot, so I think this does say something about where he pegs the performance of the V? compared to the S?. I think what we need to do is have a massive showdown at Z-Flock. Talk all you want in here about how whoop-ass your wondersuit is, then bring it to Z-Flock and support your fancy talk with some fancy flying. We ALL might even have a little bit of fun in the process…. cya sam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #82 February 23, 2006 QuoteIncreased wing area is not a new design. Actually, when I laid a similar sized V-1 and S3 on top of each other, it looked to me like the V-1 had less wing area in the arm wing, and more in the leg wing. It was certainly not a case of "more is better," as if that had been the philosophy it would have ended up looking more like the Sugar Glider prototypes, which pushed the "more wing is better" philosophy up until it became clear that no one with normal human musculature could possibly control the suit for more than a few seconds.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #83 February 23, 2006 Quote Did anybody notice that everyone who tries to defend Sx line, sells them ? Are there any dealers who sell both companies suits? It would be lovely to hear what they say I guess you could consider me one of those Yuri. Perry called me last year wanting me to join the PFI team as well as James through email. Unfortunalty I have been too busy moving into a new place and working on shit around the ranch to get the shit together for doing this but plan to do so soon. Maria has just given me a GS1 and I hope to sell a a few of them to the pilots that like to fly that style suit. Staying with only one choice in suits leave out all the fun, but I can see your side of it since you are pimarily a base jumper. QuoteI have yet to see a pilot who chose Sx suit over Vx during the last 2 years because he gets better perfomance in it. Not every pilot that exits from a plane flys for performance remember. All suits are fun to fly and I've seen many lower end suit out perform the higher end suits with the right pilot in then. QuoteLooks like there are no such pilots here, and likely none on the planet. Just about everyone switched the other way. Then again, some like the choice of flying a few different suit as I do. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yuri_base 1 #84 February 23, 2006 QuoteThere is only one meaningful and objective measure of a new design in perfomance suit class: increased L/D. Everything else is cosmetics and marketing. I agree. The problem is, with the 'big' manufacturers we might be stuck in minor improvements for years. 2.5 is here to stay. 2.5, 2.55, 2.59, with years in between - not very exciting... Although a pure speculation at this point, the aerodynamics of 3.0+ may dictate the design which puts the pilot at additional risk (e.g. flying very headlow, so that deployment from full flight will have a great chance of catching the lines with feet). Manufacturers don't want to see people killed by their experimental designs. For example, I wrote an email to PF describing my experiences with flying Prodigy pants and asking whether they plan to make it a separate product. Robert and James replied no, because it would put the BASE jumpers at risk of going head down after exit. And I agree - on my jumps from helicopter and balloon, I immediately went head down after head-high exit. Never a problem on 30-40 plane jumps I made in them. Prodigy pants require sufficient speed to keep the balance. Then they fly like a rocket. So I think the true innovation and radical improvements in L/D will come not from 'official' manufacturers, but from underground L/D (L vS. D... LSD?) junkies. YuriAndroid+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #85 February 23, 2006 QuoteNot every pilot that exits from a plane flys for performance remember. All suits are fun to fly and I've seen many lower end suit out perform the higher end suits with the right pilot in then. I agree! This is true for 90% plus of the pilots. If i were to choose a suit for flocking, i would pick based on color and style Hi-end suits and perfomance flying appeal to a tiny fraction of the pilots. L/D stuff doesn't matter much on a skydive, and only becomes really important in the mountains - where every extra .1 opens another site or two. But there is another aspect of it. Hi-end suits represent a company just like Formula 1 cars do in automotive industry. Their perfomance is not needed by 99% of the clients, but very many want to associate with a winner. bsbd! Yuri. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #86 February 23, 2006 my yy flies faster than your xx by a factor 7. I like my wingsuit. It is way better than yours and you know once I was jumping with a guy who had 10 times more ws jumps than me and because I was flying a yy, I overtook him with at least 100mph the reason is the suit and btw the two guys who made the xx split up some time ago and only one of them knows how to make a wingsuit, yes thats is true, the other one cannot even spell wingsuit he is still working on that, but he is a marketing expert and this alone keeps his company alive. Now he has made a new ws, but its not new and I can tell by looking at it that any wingsuiter in this suit will perform exactly just like a steinway piano straight out of a Skyvan. It is a fact, because because because I know it - isn't it simply incredible? Isn't it? I also have a new main now, it looks exactly just like any ordinary 9-cell, I know, BUT is from the zz company and I am the only one on a long spot that gets back to the dz. Once I.... gotta go, zzzzzzzzz... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boachanoff 0 #87 February 23, 2006 wonder why first wind tunel tested suit PHi is removed from the market. Every serious WS company would offer one explenation.Why BM representative ignoring us?! Do they read this forum?! Boachanoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #88 February 23, 2006 I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, except that you feel like a Steinway Grand whenever you exit a Skyvan??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #90 February 23, 2006 They might say they just have been integrated the best features of Phi into Firebird-R. It could be a demand from the customers . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #91 February 23, 2006 Quotewonder why first wind tunel tested suit PHi is removed from the market. Every serious WS company would offer one explenation.Why BM representative ignoring us?! Do they read this forum?! Perhaps they just don't want to get dragged into another of this forum's seemingly endless wingsuit brandwars. Have you considered just emailing to ask? I find that most manufacturers are quite a bit more talkative when they don't feel like they're going to have to defend whatever they say.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Basjkall 0 #92 February 23, 2006 I can understand that people who only jump planes are happy with their suits, because there are good suits out there. Far from great, but good. And soaring around the skies with your friends, playing, is what matters most in that arena I agree. But when you fly where there is more to fly by, more to pass, and where the speed is very noticeable, then you want to go faster and faster.. When you love to go headdown after exit, love the weightless feeling you get when your angle of attack is 0.. When you love to feel that the speed is creating most of the lift, not the drag... when you can fly like hell, fast and flat with a minimum of wings.. And when you know that it is you who has made it, for a lot less money then other wings cost, when you know the wing you fly is unique, on of a kind, and you feel special because you dont wear what every fat american does.. (joke) And when you smile when people ask what the secrets are, and wants you to shear it with them what you know, thinking we have invented or discovered something unique and new, when a search on Google for "Aerodynamics" is all they need to do. There you`ll find our "secrets" and the reason we try to make something new. Because we feel whats out there today is not as good as it gets. When one can make a rig, a suit, etc. as good as it gets, when we have passed the 300 km/h horizontal speed barrier, then the R&D has reached its max, then we have fully used the potential of human flight and then the equipment has evolved from the cradle we are in today! Not just talking about suits here.. For us to just give away everything we`ve found out and tested and worked with for a long time, to people in forums who just"bla bla bla", who hasnt contributed and cared to try to learn and understand the element they play in, is not going to happen, sorry.. You show me, I show you.. And giving away good ideas in forums where copycats can snap it up before we have protected the designs from people just like that, is not very smart... Both Robi and NickNitro have posted what every man or woman creating/designing suits and equipment has to deal with, and you cant argue with physics, so thats what one has to work with, understand, and try to find solutions according too, in order to take it further. And yes, the pilot is VERY important, sometimes people are discussing suits and performance like they are passengers, and like the suit flies every man at this and that angle,velocity, etc. when it very much is up to the pilot how YOU fly WEARING the suit.. Take care Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #93 February 23, 2006 QuoteAnd yes, the pilot is VERY important, sometimes people are discussing suits and performance like they are passengers, and like the suit flies every man at this and that angle,velocity, etc. when it very much is up to the pilot how YOU fly WEARING the suit.. Probably the most obvious and most overlooked comment ever made in this forum.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #94 February 24, 2006 QuoteMy opinions are based on today's status quo, and i am simply disappointed by recycled 4-year-old designs. The designs haven't just been recycled over the past 4 years. The prodigy is an amazing suit that lowers the barrier to entry into the sport. The PHI had in it a lot of new design ideas and even if they didn't take off, they were attempted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #95 February 24, 2006 Quote every fat american does.. It's a fact... we have the highest obeasity rate in the world.... i need to get rid of 25 pounds quick or my tracking could be interpeted as a potato thats trying to fly..... QuoteAnd yes, the pilot is VERY important, sometimes people are discussing suits and performance like they are passengers, and like the suit flies every man at this and that angle,velocity, etc. when it very much is up to the pilot how YOU fly WEARING the suit.. You only have to see "Superterminal" to make you relize that ...... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #96 February 24, 2006 QuoteThe designs haven't just been recycled over the past 4 years. That remark was only meant for Sx line. I totally agree about other innovatie designs. bsbd! Yuri. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yuri_base 1 #97 February 24, 2006 QuoteFor us to just give away everything we`ve found out and tested and worked with for a long time, to people in forums who just"bla bla bla", who hasnt contributed and cared to try to learn and understand the element they play in, is not going to happen, sorry.. You show me, I show you.. And giving away good ideas in forums where copycats can snap it up before we have protected the designs from people just like that, is not very smart... That's why I added "if you want and can" after "share the love". Noone is ever obligated to do anything... I want, and can, and did, and will. Anyone else? Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #98 February 24, 2006 Yuri, thank you. Hard to believe isn't it? No sooner do we as a species actually get to fly, then we forget why we came and turn to bickering. The various suits are mere decoration. WE are the flying things, debating whose suit is "better" is like debating which color makes a race car faster. We already know the entire bandwidth wingsuits occupy, the land between freefall and canopy flight. If I go too far in one direction I'm in normal freefall, too far in the other and I'm just flying like a wearable canopy. I've spent god knows how long trying to go the tiniest bit further or fall a bit slower in a GTI. The fact that an S3 would shift all those numbers up or out a few mph doesn't invalidate all that GTI time nor make it worth less to me. I've discovered perfect speed hides in all kinds of places... going over the top of the hill after a high speed exit right when you've used up all your thrust... feels like a momentary standstill hanging in space. Momentary immortality, perfect speed, right there. The seagulls would understand. The way people talk a lot here you'd think the only way to get perfect speed is to upgrade your suit more often than you upgrade your underwear. My first flight, I experienced perfect speed in a demo Classic. I'm sure I wasn't any magic superbird and by my current standards I wouldn't think I was flying "well", but that moment, hitting the air with my own wings I knew why eagles scream. I landed and totally, absolutely lost it, screaming "I want more" to every camera and grinning face in sight. Just thinking about it got me grinning again. I want more.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likvidskaj 0 #99 February 24, 2006 Just my 2 cents: we (let's say consumers) often forget that behind all those WS designers (or constructors if you like) is tremendous passion and desire. I'm a close friend of one of those people for decades and every time he is in the process of creating something new he's full of that passion. You just have to see those sparkles in his eyes when he boards the plane for testing his new prototype. In those moments, he's not just a designer, aerodinamycist, cool headed engeener of some kind. He's also a kid with a enormous desire to FLY faster, further, better. Very, very passionate things move those people through the designig process and through the sky. Every single product my friend puts on the market was immersed, saturated with that passion during the designing and test-flying phase. So, let those people do their beloved job and the whole body-flying world will benefit from that, step by step. The "pissing contests" are just full of piss, nothing more than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #100 February 24, 2006 The way I see it, if Robi(or anyone that has the means and the skills) just wanted to make a suit + rig for themselves that goes faster and further than anything else in the market, they could keep doing just that for a lifetime. Some people are doing that and the result of that will be good. It is really cool that some of them take the effort to make something that everyone can fly at the expense of slowing themselves down. As it has been mentioned already the suits are far ahead of pilot skills at this point in time. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
