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Zeemax

Hello new Bird Man suits...!

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I will have to say that these guys with street clothes and bungee cords are the ones pushing human flight.
The more you learn it's not the suit but the suiter..i think things will really progress....



Which is why I am keeping my suit for the next billion skydives, I like it and I can keep flying it better if I don't change it! B|
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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You've a bunch of flights on each, I assume?



I've flown plenty of Sx variations and prototypes. None of the minor changes mentioned for S6 had any effect on L/D. In fact, none of those small changes over Skyflyer Sx lifespan had any measurable effect on L/D.

It took creating an entirely new platform (Vampire generation) to squeeze a bit more glide. This is where it stands now.

At this stage in perfomance suit development no small cosmetic changes will have any effect. Adding more glide requires a major effort. And first of all, it requires a talented designer... that's the biggest and foremost problem:

Original BirdMan had a great designer and a great marketer. The split created two companies, one with a great marketer, and another with a great designer. Currently BirdMan knows how to sell suits very well, but cannot design anything really new. Phoenix designs awesome new toys, but lags behind in advertising and marketing them.

bsbd!

Yuri.



I'm sure you are aware that the V1 is not an "entirely new platform." It is not any closer to being a brand new design than the S.6 is. There are no radical departures from previous designs.

I am well aware of the history of Robi, Jari and Bird-Man. I also am well aware that Bird-Man is not lacking a talented designer, as you claim. In fact, I doubt you know much about Bird-Man's current R&D, let alone who all is involved with it, or what projects are in the works.

Chris

For Great Deals on Gear


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I'm sure you are aware that the V1 is not an "entirely new platform." It is not any closer to being a brand new design than the S.6 is.



This is incorrect Chris.

The V1 is a completely new design. Made from scratch using new cuts, templates, 3d arm wing design, suit stance, arm chord, materials, wing tip grippers, leg wing, back delfector, airfoil sections the list goes on for a long time...


The S6 has adjustable thumb loops and a big logo on the back over the S3s... and is a"new suit".
BASEstore.it

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Phoenix designs awesome new toys, but lags behind in advertising and marketing them.



Since this thread is drifting abit.....

Whats wrong with their advertising and marketing?
I seem to see them out there recruiting wingsuit Instructors and showing at all the events more then anyother manufacturer out there?


Be safe
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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I am well aware of the history of Robi, Jari and Bird-Man. I also am well aware that Bird-Man is not lacking a talented designer, as you claim. In fact, I doubt you know much about Bird-Man's current R&D, let alone who all is involved with it, or what projects are in the works.



I would love to see them come out with a new glide machine! Like i said, i am not attached to any particular brand, and only favor what currently flies better. I've partied a lot with both Jari and Robi, and know Cedric, Loic, Shaun and Julian well. They are all good friends, and there's nothing personal. My opinions are based on today's status quo, and i am simply disappointed by recycled 4-year-old designs. I'd love to know who is involved in the current R&D. So far BM tactic has been creating a lot of hype in advance, then nothing really came out B| The day it changes and i get to fly a new toy that passes the old suit will be one of the happiest in my life :)
bsbd!

Yuri.

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What radical new design technology has been applied? Increased wing area is not a new design. It is an evolution of previous designs Robi and Jari worked on.



Funny that you say that "Increased wing area is not a new design" ;) That's about S3S and it does not, indeed, increase L/D.

The difference about V1 is a new shape, that did increase L/D.

There is only one meaningful and objective measure of a new design in perfomance suit class: increased L/D. Everything else is cosmetics and marketing.

bsbd!

Yuri.

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So your points were:

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I'm sure you are aware that the V1 is not an "entirely new platform." It is not any closer to being a brand new design than the S.6 is.



Incorrect, see my previous post.

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There are no radical departures from previous designs.



hmmm again, see my previous post. But please help - what is a "radical" design change?

Lets talk about some design technology, that physically dictates the shape, form and flying characteristics of a wingsuit:

-3D Arm wing design
-Arm chord line changed
-Arm wingtip grippers
-Leg wing / back deflector geometry changed
-Inlet design
-Mylar ribs
-Dacron leading edges
-etc. the list goes on

Not "radical" enough for you? Sorry.
BASEstore.it

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Whats wrong with their advertising and marketing?
I seem to see them out there recruiting wingsuit Instructors and showing at all the events more then anyother manufacturer out there?



They are now starting to catch up in this field. At the beginning things looked rather poor, from a marketing point of view.

I only hope that BM picks up on R&D in a similar manner, so there's finally a true choice of hi-end suits that i can select from.

bsbd!

Yuri.

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This isn't a pissing contest. It is the pursuit of human flight. We build on what we already know. The fact is, Robi and Jari used to work together, and what they learned together they now each apply to their respective new suits.


I totally agree with you. Everyone apply and manifest what they know best... it is not necessarily designing a new wingsuit...;)

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hmmm again, see my previous post. But please help - what is a "radical" design change?

Lets talk about some design technology, that physically dictates the shape, form and flying characteristics of a wingsuit:

-3D Arm wing design
-Arm chord line changed
-Arm wingtip grippers
-Leg wing / back deflector geometry changed
-Inlet design
-Mylar ribs
-Dacron leading edges
-etc. the list goes on

Not "radical" enough for you? Sorry.



I guess my idea of a "radical change" require more significant changes than your idea of "radical change."

No, I don't consider the minor changes you have listed to be radical, which is where our disagreement lies.

For Great Deals on Gear


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Let me tell you that some very exiting things are being made here in Karskland... Groundbreaking stuff.. If one wants to have the best, one has to make it him self..
When you think that there is a lot to improve in wingsuit designs, make your own..

I hope more people out there start designing and making gear they have dreamt about! Because it will take a long time bfore any of the known brands will push the limit as far ass we need to really fly! Together we can make man fly faster and further than ever before.



So folks, why don't we share our groundbreaking ideas and know-how? What makes us keep them to ourselves?

When Jonathan Seagull discovered that "the speed was power, and the speed was joy, and the speed was pure beauty" and "you will begin to touch heaven in the moment that you touch perfect speed. And that isn't flying a thousand miles an hour, or a million, or flying at the speed of light. Because any number is a limit, and perfection doesn't have limits. Perfect speed, my son, is being there." -- he tried to SHARE his joy with others. He didn't attach "meagre $1200" and $250,000 stickers to his joy...

Personally, I have no monetary interest in wingsuit advances, I have no reason not to share my ideas. All my interest is the smile the perfect speed puts on your face, from ear to ear. It's that feeling when you find the sweet spot and the air around you suddenly becomes smooth and quiet and you feel you really fly... It's the joy of "being there".

So if you have an idea - share. Maybe someone will be quicker in implementing it and will share the results.

If you build a custom wingsuit, post the details, the complete know-how from start to finish. Materials, patterns, measurements, how to assemble and sew it. Then your brother can take it to a tailor and have it made for much less than the "big logo/Big Brother" wingsuit. Big smile on our faces will be our logo.

Share the love! If you want and can.

Yuri :)
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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***Let

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So if you have an idea - share. Maybe someone will be quicker in implementing it and will share the results.

If you build a custom wingsuit, post the details, the complete know-how from start to finish. Materials, patterns, measurements, how to assemble and sew it. Then your brother can take it to a tailor and have it made for much less than the "big logo/Big Brother" wingsuit. Big smile on our faces will be our logo.

Share the love! If you want and can.

Yuri :)


____________________________

God that is impractical ! Just ask for a demo !

(pronounced G - jii is the force that makes you fly!)

Jii-Wings - no strings!

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God that is impractical !



That's exactly what gulls would say to Jonathan... Fortunately, folks like VKB won't listen. "Nice kids, no trouble to anyone", they follow their heart, their dream...
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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God that is impractical !



That's exactly what gulls would say to Jonathan... Fortunately, folks like VKB won't listen. "Nice kids, no trouble to anyone", they follow their heart, their dream...



You didn't get it. She says that it's much easier to copy a suit from a demo, then to build it from scattered patterns and descriptions ;)

bsbd!

Yuri.

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You didn't get it. She says that it's much easier to copy a suit from a demo, then to build it from scattered patterns and descriptions



I wonder if someone demos a suit, modifies it to have L/D=3.0+ and returns it... will they charge him for vandalism? :D
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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I've seen photos of the S.6, and have an S.3-S (and an S.3, plus others) here in the store. When I get an S.6 in, I will be able to make a more detailed comparison.



Did anybody notice that everyone who tries to defend Sx line, sells them ? Are there any dealers who sell both companies suits? It would be lovely to hear what they say :)

I have yet to see a pilot who chose Sx suit over Vx during the last 2 years because he gets better perfomance in it.

Looks like there are no such pilots here, and likely none on the planet. Just about everyone switched the other way.

I will be the first one in line to get whatever suit that surpasses V1.
Please, somebody, make one! :)
Chris, i just checked on who is a designer for BM. Very sweet indeed :$ but it only reinforced my opinion regarding perfomance.

bsbd!

Yuri.

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Did anybody notice that everyone who tries to defend Sx line, sells them ? Are there any dealers who sell both companies suits? It would be lovely to hear what they say



I may defend BM suits, but I also don't offer disparaging remarks about the competition.

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I have yet to see a pilot who chose Sx suit over Vx during the last 2 years because he gets better perfomance in it.



I have seen a PF(C)I refuse to get rid of his S.3 because he feels it is too much fun to fly.

For Great Deals on Gear


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Patrick Gayardon made the biggest radical design. The rest are merely performance and aerodynamics improvements and natural evolution.
The most important is that we are able to fock together and longer no matter if you are using PF, BM or any other great performance suit that exists today.

Leo Holanda
Fortaleza - CE - Brazil

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hmmm again, see my previous post. But please help - what is a "radical" design change?


Leo Holanda

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