Post your Flat Spin Experiences

[KrisFlyZ 0]

This may help throw some light on the experiences people have had with regards to flat spins while flying a wingsuit(Read Matt's post from the other "Flat Spin on SM.com" thread). This will keep all the experiences in one place and we can add a link to and from the other thread.

Please post as much detail as you can remember.
I have experienced a flat spin 5 times. I will be posting a detailed account of each one this evening, once I get home.

Include these details(suggestions for any I have missed are welcome)

1) Wingsuit(Make, Model and Year )
2) Reason for Flat spin(exit, bump, acrobatics, etc.)
3) How long did it take you to recover?
4) Did you cut the wings away?
5) How much 'G-Force' do you think you experienced during this? was it easy to move your hands, did you feel dizzy or lightheaded..yadda, yadda.

Kris.

[cpoxon 0]

I've made a couple of posts (with video) about spins before:

Spin video

and

Hercules kicked my arse!

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[mccordia 73]

I had a minor incident last weekend.
I was speeding up to someone (hans aka gadget) and wanted to film him on my back from slighly lower/to the side.

I went onto my back while still in a sharp turn, and instead of a smooth transition I got swung around like someone grabbed my legs and gave em a push/swing.
I immidiately felt it picking up speed and going out of control.
I balled up straight away and rotated belly to earth and flew out of it withour problems..I only made a single 360 turn on my back, but could really feel that it was picking up speed. The force I felt while turning was heavy...like I sayd..if someone suddenly swings you around by your legs..

Not properly opened up armwings and a fully open legwing, and doing the transition while in a diving turn was probably what caused it....

Balling up worked fine and almost directly stopped the turn...

It felt like it lasted quite a few seconds, but on (my pov.) video it just looks like a quick turn while back to earth...

I think in most instances it's the legwing, acting like a rotorblade...with your body and arms being the heavy-'no lift' point around which it rotates...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[birdynamnam 28]

1) S3, 2005
2) a combi of strong blast and a slightly stupid exitstyle
3) 4-5 secs
4) no
5) I felt a bit dizzy, being the first spin It amazed me how agressive it was and how quickly things got nasty.
6) Procedure applied: closed legwing and balled up immediately for 2 sec's. Then arch, then spreading wings and finally opening the legwing. Worked fine.

[nathaniel 0]

Not me directly, but on a 2 way the fellow I was jumping with experienced a spin on his Firebird. He apparently had a brain fart and exited a porter with a right-side door as though it was an otter with a left side door (ie, facing backward)

He wound up on his back, spinning and sinking and not catching any air. After a couple of seconds he balled up and rolled over, instantly he was out of the spin and flying. I dove down to him and the rest of the jump was uneventful.

1. Birdman firebird 2005
2. exit
3. 200-300 feet
4 no
5 no idea

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[JeNnEjEnN 0]

1) GTI
2) Exit - out of a Navajo plane (tiny door, low tail, which requires you to roll out of the plane, summersault style) in Australia
3) ~300'
4) nope, went to a ball/fetal position
5) G-force, a little bit... it was scary that I was 'stuck' and there wasn't much I could do to control it. Obviously it started speeding up the longer it went.

-------------------------------------------
"Scars remind you that the past is real..."

[KrisFlyZ 0]

I had been reading up on the forums, the flybirdman site and all the manufacturer websites leading up to jumping a wingsuit, so the reaction to having a flat spin was almost instantaneous. This can certainly be a mind fuck, even though I was never dizzy, it is a bit disorienting. Maybe because I was not used to that kind of visuals.

Flat Spin 1

Suit : Classic II
Reason: Exit
Altitude Lost: around 500-1000'
Cutaway wings? : No
Dizzy?? : No

It was easy to recover.


Flat Spin nos 2 & 3

Suit : GTI(on the same jump)
Reason: Trying Barrel rolls without collapsing the wings.
Altitude Lost: around 500-1000' spun on to back on the first one and a bit more on the second one
Cutaway wings? : No
Dizzy?? : No

It was easy to recover from the first one so I tried harder to do the Barrel roll(I think looking down insted of keeping the eyes level with the horizon caused the spin) and the resulting spin was a little more challenging to recover from.

Flat Spin Nos 4 & 5

Similar to above except for the fact that the suit was the S-fly.

Flat Spin Nos 6

Suit : V-1
Reason: Helicopter that was moving forward, exit was at an angle to the relative wind and also opened wings too quickly.
Altitude Lost: around 1000'
Cutaway wings? : No
Dizzy?? : No

Kris.

[MarkM 0]

Spin 1

1> PHI
2> Botched barrel roll
3> Spun out at 8k, deployed on my back while spining at around 4k.
4> Tried to, but I couldn't.
5> I imediately balled up so my G's were much lower than they would've been if I hadn't done that, yet they were still high enough that it was a struggle to reach my handles. I think my legs probably weren't in enough. Ended up twisting to the side while in the spin to present some clean air and dumping at 4k.


Spin 2

1> PHI
2> Botched exit(was bumped).
3> 300-400 feet.
4> Nope.
5> I felt very little G force. I went belly as soon as the spin slowed down a little after balling up tighly.

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

3> Spun out at 8k, deployed on my back while spining at around 4k.

Any details of how your canopy opened?



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[MarkM 0]

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Quote

3> Spun out at 8k, deployed on my back while spining at around 4k.

Any details of how your canopy opened?

Really well for the situation. I had a lot of line twists which pinned my head down and my helmet got knocked around a little. I've actually had "normal" rogue openings that have been worse.

[Trae 1]

My flat spin was on purpose and it really cranked.
I was in a GTi and it built up a lot of force as I held the spin. I was spread right out but twisting.

I stayed in it until I scared myself with the rate of spin. The outside world was no longer easily visible .

I assumed a delta position and the spin continued for some time ( several seconds) until the delta turned the spin into more of a spiral than a spin and then a dive out. The whole spin thing from start to recovery took about 15 seconds.

The delta took some time to have an affect and I recall noting that in a big bad spin a novice may have given up on the delta as it did take some time to work it's magic. I trusted it and it pulled me out.

I had to try to get in a flat spin. If you're having spin trouble even during aerobatics I'd suggest you learn to fly your body better before wingsuiting.

I'm sure if I'd held the spin it would have turned into a red helicopter before much longer. As it was there were no burst blood vessles.

[bodypilot1 0]

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If you're having spin trouble even during aerobatics I'd suggest you learn to fly your body better before wingsuiting.

I couldn't agree more.



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Quote

Quote

If you're having spin trouble even during aerobatics I'd suggest you learn to fly your body better before wingsuiting.

I couldn't agree more.



Be safe
Ed

My opinion is a bit different on this, if you can recover from a shitty situation you don't really need to be able to do a barrel roll or acrobatics perfectly. Do you fail AFF students if their barrel rolls or flips are not perfect but they can recover from the instability?

Doing a barrel roll in a wingsuit by collapsing the arm wings and easing up on the leg wing is easy.

Trying Barrel rolls without collapsing the wings.... usually results in spins for me. And I mean no collapsing the wings at all.

The spin starts because controlling the residual mometum is hard...after one or a few rolls.

Kris.
Edited to add: ...after one or a few rolls.

[Trae 1]

inreply to "if you can recover from a shitty situation you don't really need to be able to do a barrel roll or acrobatics perfectly."
.......................................

Sure .............sounds good. The emphasis on 'if you can recover'. We can learn by falling over occassionally.

None of us are perfect and spins can & DO happen accidently especially when trying newish things.
Students in flat spins they can't stop apart from being amusing to watch can be very dangerous.

A spin in a wingsuit is gonna be much more radical than any spin in a standard jumpsuit.

If you are spinning accidently in your wingsuit on a regular basis even while attempting aerobatics then there are at least some flying tips required .

Another solution may be to go to another more forgiving wingsuit while you learn the basics.

Not a put off here...GO FOR IT ... spin those suits......but recovering easily is nice too.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Do you fail AFF students if their barrel rolls or flips are not perfect but they can recover from the instability?

Quote

That would be No, and not even a good comparision.
An AFF student is new to everything in freefall, and also their body orientation in the air, whereas the experinced skydiver, after learning to control his or her body in every orientation before even trying to fly a wingsuit., usually flys a suit better and learns to regain their control faster should they ever get out of control.




Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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[droquette 0]

I had a pretty interesting spin.. i was trying ky first barrel roll and seem to have not understood it to well.. as i tried to come out of it i must have been off angle and started spinning very rapidly.. i only let 2-3 spins happen before i got in the fetal position. the spin then slowed, i opened up the wings and flew out of the remaining inertia that was spinning me... at least thats the way it felt.. and i didnt have anybody filming me...But my flat spin was nothing compared to what happened to that person on exit in the S3 who's video is up on skydivingmovies.com

blue skies and fat clouds,

dan

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[tdog 0]

I gave a good show to my friends last weekend... They watched me spin it up...

My exit sucked... We got rushed (long story)... So instead of spending the last few minutes visualizing a clean flight, I was communicating with other jumpers on the load about some last minute changes... Hence my exit was less than perfect.

All I remember is the world spun very fast the second I opened my wings. It was clearly not something I could fix.

I grabbed my knees and went into a ball for about 3 seconds.

Once I saw the horizon come around while still somersaulting, I opened up and actively flew out of it.

I had talked to everyone I knew with wing suit experience about their experiences on spins. Their advice seemed to work.

Stats: Phantom - bad exit - about 5 seconds to recover - the G forces were minor because I quickly reacted, I think I was on my side/back spinning, but the sky was spinning so quickly the first thing I remember seeing was the horizon after I balled up.

[msmithd8769 0]

Quote

This may help throw some light on the experiences people have had with regards to flat spins while flying a wingsuit (Read Matt's post from the other "Flat Spin on SM.com" thread). This will keep all the experiences in one place and we can add a link to and from the other thread.

Please post as much detail as you can remember.

Include these details(suggestions for any I have missed are welcome)

1) Wingsuit(Make, Model and Year )
2) Reason for Flat spin(exit, bump, acrobatics, etc.)
3) How long did it take you to recover?
4) Did you cut the wings away?
5) How much 'G-Force' do you think you experienced during this? was it easy to move your hands, did you feel dizzy or lightheaded..yadda, yadda.

Kris.

No sh*t, there I was, thought I was gonna die....
Very radical back-to-earth spin on about my 35th wingsuit jump.
It was a BirdMan GTi suit and I had just come out of a front loop which seemed fine and I seemed to have stabled right out from the loop. All of a sudden it was like an unseen hand flipped me on my back and the spin started. Kept getting progressively worse with lots of Gs (could feel my helmet pulling up from the centrifugal force). Could not get out of spin, cutaway the arm cables which did not help but I was low on altitude to begin with so didn't have a lot of time to mess with it anyway; also couldn't see my altimeter. My internal clock told me I was out of time and I dumped my main while still in the spin and was under canopy right at about 2 grand. Nice to know my internal clock is still calibrated ! I use an Eagle 7-cell for my wingsuit jumps so although I had severe line twists it was no problem kicking out of them. A wild ride folks......

_____________________________
"And when the prophet shall arise who appeareth as a bird then the time of the Lord draweth nigh and the flock shall rule the earth."

[GeordieSkydiver 0]

Only one, but it was a bad rodeo exit from a King Air, rodeo had death grip, so she held on for about 20/25 seconds, I tired several times to ball up and fly out of it, but it wasn't happening, it worked on the last attempt, but she baled right as it started flying (7Kft). Did a sweet fly by right after though.
Firebird.
Rodeo gone wrong.
20/25 seconds (or until the rodeo baled out).
Hell no.
Not a great deal of 'G's, being two of us centred around the centre of gravity probably helped. I never got dizzy, well no more than usual.

Lee _______________________________

In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

[moonglo 0]

I've had 2, both in my 2004 GTi
Flatspin #1:
Side by side rodeos, I was in the back of the door, less experienced wingsuiter in front with experienced rider. Clean exit for both of us and flying side by side for the first second or so til we open our wings together. My rider stuck her right foot out and we started spinning really fast belly to earth. The spinning stopped as soon as she was thrown off. In the video (other rider's perspective) we're a blur of color (my rider likes tiedye) then she flies back out of frame and I fly straight up. I was able to recover my heading quickly but didn't quite get back to the other pair before the other rider bailed.

cause: unsymetrical rider after good rodeo exit
spin time: about 5 seconds per video
cutaway wings?: no
disoriented/dizzy?: a bit dizzy after recovering from this one

Flatspin #2
Solo working on back flying. I was at about 6k' and on my belly checking for student traffic before rolling onto my back again. I'm not quite sure if I had sideways momentum or didn't quite collapse my wings right for the roll but I ended up on my back spinning. This one was just like everyone else said- like someone picked me up by my legwing and was swinging me around their head! Balled up and recovered after about 500', deployed normally.

cause: bad barrel roll from belly to back
spin time: only 2-3 seconds, tried to get out of it immediately but took some doing to get my legwing in, felt like much longer
cutaway?: no
disoriented/dizzy?: no

I noticed after this one that my Neptune graph of the jump showed about a 60mph fallrate while spinning, and I was slowing down. My AAD would not have saved me if I didn't recover.

[The111 0]

I've had more than I can count, from exits, bumps, burbles, acrobatics, rodeos, and even one from maxing out so hard that I stalled the suit. The first few scared me but I learned to relax and ball up for as long as it takes. It often seems like it takes a long time for the spin to stop (especially if you are scared), but I usually wear video and when I watch it afterwards, it is clear it stops within just a couple seconds after balling up. I've never cut the wings away and wouldn't even think about it. I don't think I experienced much force because I ball up as soon as I know I can't control it. It's possible that if I didn't ball up the forces would get worse... I don't plan on ever waiting to find out.
These were all in my S3. I never had one in my old GTi.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[MikeOne 0]

Okay, unusual one here. Prior to my first wingsuit jump I went out on a rodeo with a friend on a V1. Left hand door exit from a Grand Caravan. I remained on top as we went out, the plan being that we might do one loop and fly out of it. However, it went into a spin that started to wind up. I lost my seat and ended up stretched out at arms length holding on to the yoke of the wingsuiter. This initially didn't seem to cause a problem and was quite fun until I couldn't hold on any longer.

I was thrown off and ended up in a flat spin on my back. I went with the standard response that I was taught as a student and tried to ball up, but the Gs were such that I couldn't move my legs at all. I kept trying and am not really sure if I did anything else in particular, but the spin eventually seemed to slow of its own accord and I was able to get small, flip over and get stable.

My friend on the wingsuit had no problem recovering straight away. All I can think of is that perhaps I was somehow the centre of rotation in the initial spin meaning that I had a more concentrated spin than my friend in the wingsuit. I was extremely worried at the time as I didn't really know much about wingsuit flying and assumed that if I'd struggled to recover from the spin it would have been worse for the wingsuit, but it seems (fortunately) this wasn't the case.

All I'd say on this one is that if it happened to me not wearing a wingsuit it could have easily been the other way round, so make sure you educate your rider well if you're planning on doing a rodeo!

As additional general into, I started jumping wingsuits later on and most of my jumps have been on a GTi. I've never been the horse on a rodeo yet. WEnt into a spin the first time I tried to back fly - tried to snap roll straight into it and obviously got it wrong. Collapsed the wings and arched, which flipped me over, and it stopped pretty much straight away, then carried on flying and kept trying, a little more cautiously. Fortunately things have improved since then

Blue ones,

Mike.

[smiler 0]

I was the wingsuiter in Mike's experience above - it was before I got my V1 so it would have been in a GTi.

I remember landing a long time after Mike and going "yeah, that was awesome" until I saw the white look on his face...he thought he'd just really messed up my day. There was enough fluffy cloud around that he hadn't seen me throughout his whole canopy ride so he'd spent a long time not knowing if I was ok...

www.wingin-it.co.uk
Wingin' It wingsuit school

[droquette 0]

I was in my GTI jumped from a caravan at 13,500
I was flying witn a friend who was doing some barrel rolls and front flips.. he did a few.. i went to do a barrel roll.. it didnt finish right and instantly threw me into a flat spin.. i balled up within the 1-2 rotations... still spinning.. wouldnt stop... at that point i am looking up at the sky thinking about cutting away but i am completely balled up and dont think my wings are the problem.. at this point my ditter starts going crazy.... im still looking at the sky and just decide to dump like that.. its time one way or another..
so i dump and see the D-bag go between my legs... WACKK it opens, on heading and stands me right up.. it was a little hard but nothing to write back about...
since then i have attempted few barrel rolls.. i guess i am a chicken!!!!
i was in the saddle by 2500 and had an uneventfull landing although the adrenaline was running at like 200% at that point..

blues,
dan

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733