Acrobatic Wingsuits (review & video)

[OmarPR 0]

This review is based on first hand experience (for the most), and information gathered from other WS pilots who have tested these wingsuits (on site). This is BY NO MEANS an attempt to advertise or sponsor any particular wingsuit or brand thereof. These are views and opinions based on educated experimentation, and are totally unbiased.

Please open your minds and accept this information for what it is. I am aware that not everybody has easy access to all these new acrobatic wingsuits, which is the purpose of this review herein. If you do have access to these, I recomend you do some experimentation yourself and come to your own conclusions. I am aware that it takes more than just a few flights to really get the most accurate info on these, but these are my "first impressions" which personally, often don't change much after further 'testing'. I welcome any imput from anyone who has already tried any of these. But please refrain from being biased and continuing this 'brand war' because it is getting old (kinda like Jerry Springer), and I am not interested.That also goes for any rep out there.

I hope this is of some help.
Peace out free-flockers!

*NOTE: All three wingsuits were about the same size (slightly bigger on me, but not significantly).
**The FIREBIRD is not officially an acrobatic ws, but it is an "all around" ws, therefor it is included here. (I wish I tested the S-FLY. It seems to be good for acrobatics).
*** Static transition = barrel rolls, loops, spins,etc.
**** Dynamic transitions = swoops, head down, gravitrons, etc.

I will rate each one on the following:

1- ease of use
2- relative perfomance (to other suits)
3- confort
4- practicality
5- overall perfomance
6- looks (I learned that look are important to some)

FIREBIRD

1- ease of use

I found that the Firebird handles very similar to a GTI. Back-flying and transitions are very easy. My theory is that because the wings don't stay fully pressurized (in mid-transition they seem to somewhat deflate and re-inflate very quickly), it allows for a more effortless transition.

2- relative perfomance

On a belly orietation, it flies like a cross between a GTI and Skyflyer. Glide ratio is decent. Back-flying, the fall rate change is noticeable. Head down is stable.

3- confort

Average confort easy to put on.

4- practicality

The lack of snaps, I can do without. On a head down orienation ALL four wing zippers quickly came undone. The lower leg wing profile allows for easier wing spread while back flying. No plastic ribs inside the wings, good, no need for those. Wing grips are not really necessary for acrobatics, but then again the Firebird is not a pure acrobatic ws.

5- overall perfomance

The Firebird handles (acrobaticly) slightly above average and is a very easy ws to learn acrobatic manouvers.

6- looks

Who cares?

PHI

1- ease of use

On a belly orientation I found the PHI to be similar to a Skyflyier, a little twitchy and tiring on the arms but a good glide ratio. On a back flying orientation it was very difficult to keep steady. Very hard to do front loops (at least decent, on-heading ones). The foward speed radically dies out while on a loop. Very difficult to take it head down or any other dynamic transition. Like the Firebird there were no snaps on the booties.

2- relative perfomance

Good only on its belly (as in a flock)

3- confort

A little thick for my taste. With the diagonal chest zipper, it is no easier to put on than a Classic 1 (single zipper). The leg zippers are a bit short, adding to the difficulty of putting it on.

4- practicality

Again, wing tip grips are totally unecessary for acrobatic flying and they only get in the way. It just adds one more thing to worry about and deal with as one prepares to go from one manouver to the next, including having to catch them soon after one exits the plane from hanging on the outside, especially on an outside back exit (which I do quite often). As far as I know, the plastic ribs are designed to reduce vibration which did not happen with any one that tested the PHI. Ribs would probably not even be necessary if the wing profile was of a simpler design i.e. no scalloped or bat type trailing edges and a smaller profile (not to be confused with smaller wings or wing surface). The absence of thumb loops or swoop cords was also in my very personal opinion a bad idea. I am used to unzipping my arm wings soon after piching, allowing my arms to be free before full canopy inflation which only takes about 200 feet and about 2 seconds. Without these loops that task is impossible. There could also be some nuisances (or even malfunctions) that would require quick freedom of your arms without having to cut away your wings every time.

5- overall perfomance

The PHI handles (acrobaticly) below average and is a very difficult ws to learn acrobatic manouvers. Great for flocking though.

6- looks

Who cares? But some do, and say it is a great looking suit, very stylish and a chick magnet.

ACRO

1- ease of use

The Acro was suprisingly easier to fly than what I've expected. On a belly orientation, it has a great glide ratio, very floaty and very fast foward. (On my first flight (a solo), after performing several manouvers, I found myself a bit far from the spot, I check my altimeter and I was surprised to see how high I was still. Since I was done with my routine, I started to head straight towards the spot. I realized how fast I was flying when I notice the ground move from about 8,000' or 9,000' and the clouds in between going even faster. By about 7,000' I was already overshooting the landing area so I had to fly in a pattern until opening altitude). On a back flying orientation the fall rate and glide ratio are very close if not equal to its belly orietation. On transitions one has to be more aggresive than normal. My theory is that the wings stay fully pressurized and they can't be collapsed, which causes more "drag" on transitions like barrel rolls and gravitrons. Loops on the other hand were very easy. On most manouvers, the Acro seemed want to "cradle" the pilot into a flat postition (belly or back). I would say that the Acro is almost "too stable" for some acrobatic manouvers. Not being able to "deflate" or fully collapse the wings on certain transitions makes it just a little bit more challenging. But I don't really consider this a mayor problem. The air inlets are plain genius.

2- relative perfomance

(See 'ease of use' above)

3- confort

Very confortable. Lots of well-placed padding.

4- practicality

One of the first things I noticed was the "RW" grips, great idea and lots of fun, but only if one is belly flying. When the Acro is rolled on its back, the grips become very difficult if not impossible to grab, (something that I think can be easily modified). The absence of wing tip grips, as I mentioned earlier, there is absolutely no need for them. One would think that wing tip grips would be a great asset by increasing wing surface thus better glide ratio and so on and so forth. But the Acro is not designed for high performance horizontal flight or for flocking for that matter, although it is capable of doing so to some extent. At first I was fooled and misled by the Acro's appearance; seemingly (and deceivingly) small wings (at first glance it looks like a Classic but it really is closer to an S-Fly), but when I put it on and spread the wings I reallized how big the wing surface area was. Swoop cords; I must admit that I used them as regular thumb loops and found them to a little too wide and unconfortable. I guess I'll have to try it again the right way, although I would much rather have the regular thumb loops (but with a quick release snap that snaps on to the zipper tab. Well that is another subject). Snaps on the booties must be thighly secured. Not doing so causes the zippers to immediately come undone because of the strong elastic around the ankle of the bootie. Also, like I said before; the air inlets are plain genius.

5- overall perfomance

The Acro handles (acrobaticly) well above average and is a fairly easy ws to learn acrobatic manouvers. If there was such category, it would be "high perfomance intermidiate suit" or "high perfomance acrobatic suit"

6- looks

Who cares? But some do, and say it is a plain looking suit. Looks can be deceiving. I'd choose performance over looks any time.



CONCLUSION:

None of these three suits are "the perfect acrobatic wingsuit" and they all could use some improvement, some more than others. On the more aggressive manouvers all three suits had issues with zippers coming undone, some less than others.
On a scale from 1 to 10:

The Firebird:--6
It's a decent, fun overall wuingsuit. It would be like and upgrade to my GTI (which by the way I consider the GTI to be the best non-acrobatic ws for acrobatics). I wouldn't mind owning one.


The PHI:--3
No thank you. Hard to believe that I think that the Firebird is a better acrobatic suit than the PHI.

The Acro:--9
Yes please! I want one. It is a very user friendly suit and a little bit of a challenge, a perfect combination. The Acro's overall design makes more sense to me.


Remember: These are my own personal views and opnions. Try the suits and set you own.

WATCH THE VIDEO HERE

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[The111 0]

Nice work Omar. Only a few comments.

1. This comment is in defense of the pilot (me) more than the comparison of the suits... but at 1:49 you were not backfloating up on me, I simply bombed the exit and dropped a bit. It may be true that I was backfloating up on you in the other part, I don't know since I couldn't see you.
2. Who you calling Mr. Magoo?
3. Nice work (again). I'm sure everyone appreciates all the effort you put into this. Hopefully more people will get access to all the suits and we can see more firsthand opinions.

I'm off to Lake Wales!

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[VectorBoy 0]

Nice review, Whats a graviton? It sounds very fun.

[The111 0]

I'll let Omar correct my definition if it is lacking, but:

That's an Omar-copyrighted name for the 2-way "free-flocking" transition that can be seen in the vid from 6:40-6:45 (and other places) where two flyers, face to face (one back one belly) complete half backloop and front loop carves, going through a headdown orientation in the process, and come out with their positions and heading reversed. Proximity should be maintained through the maneuver I think, right Omar?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[VectorBoy 0]

No shit?

[dragon2 0]

Sounds like half an eagle? But starting flat.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[OmarPR 0]

The eagle begins already head down so the eagle and the gravitron are not exatly the same. There is some variation.

I didn't know what an eagle or a half eagle was until the gravitron came up. I also learned what an Immelman was which is also a similar move performed in airplane acrobatics. I think as in freeflying and aviation, wingsuit acrobatics should have their own names for their own manouvers. The same way it has been done in surfing,skateboarding,snowboarding,BMX, supercross,etc. Of course the are some obvious exeptions like the barrel roll and the front loop, etc.

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[scottygofast 0]

For you aeronautical types it's basically a two person split S performed twice. Great Job again Omar, as always. u shouldve inserted some machine gun sounds on some of those clips.lol.. credit is always nice yaknow... hahaha.... flock on ya'll

Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer
Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory
www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography

[pilotdave 0]

How do you do an immelman? Half back loop then roll over , flying in the opposite direction?

Dave

[scottygofast 0]

Dave, thats exactly what it is only done with two people, one starts in normal flight while the other is backflying, the object is to maintain control and distance throughout the transition.

Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer
Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory
www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography

[VectorBoy 0]

Is it done smooth and gradually or is more of a snap maneuver?

Scotty what you got that is Rotary powered?

[scottygofast 0]

its smooth but i wouldnt really say gradual. it really is dependant on the person who is bellyflyings' ability to reverse direction quickly as to not cause too much seperation. wish i had somethin rotary, would like to build a rotorway. know anybody that has one and would let me fly it? lol..

Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer
Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory
www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography

[medusa 0]

thanks omar!!

I hope that some people can lern how to do something contructive for WS rather that the old stupid fight "My dad can kick your dad ass".

once again thanks

Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

[VectorBoy 0]

Quote

wish i had somethin rotary, would like to build a rotorway. know anybody that has one and would let me fly it? lol..

No I don't. I knew a guy with an exec based at the Reno-Stead airport, but that was a while ago.
I have the business card of an outfit doing jet turbine conversions to the exec based right here in Perris.
I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a CH-7 Angel. But I think there are only two in the whole country.

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Nice work guys!! Loved the video.

Kris.

[MarkM 0]

Stupid question, but do the other suits have the tab covering the wing cutaway handle velcro area like the PHI does? I never noticed anything like that before on the GTI I jumped last May and today on my PHI I got in an unrecoverable flatspin and couldn't cutaway partly because the the stupid things.

Luckily I pack like shit, so when I dumped my opening was pretty normal for me

But those tabs are going bye bye.

[The111 0]

Quote

Stupid question, but do the other suits have the tab covering the wing cutaway handle velcro area like the PHI does? I never noticed anything like that before on the GTI I jumped last May and today on my PHI I got in an unrecoverable flatspin and couldn't cutaway partly because the the stupid things.

Wow, that is scary Mark! I'm pretty sure only the newer BirdMan suits (Firebird, PHI, S3-S) have the newer cutaway handle design. I am curious to see how the tabs ("partly") made it so you couldn't cutaway. You'll have to show me next time we meet up.

I've always wondered what people meant by an unrecoverable flatspin, since I had never experienced a really bad one, but fortunately (I think?) this weekend I finally got the chance. I had to do a bunch of solo jumps on Saturday due to certain unnamed (OMAR, JEFF) Z-flockers not showing up @ LW as planned. I got bored on these solos and started doing really hard multiple barrel rolls and eventually got myself into a couple fast flatspins. I simply balled up as I had heard you should, waited for the rotations to slow down, and then opened wings and started flying again. No offense to you Mark, but it is my opinion that people who think their spin was unrecoverable, even after trying balling up, did not ball up long enough. NOTE: initially after balling up, your spin speed will actually INCREASE due to rotational inertia. However, if you hold the "ball" long enough (a couple seconds) the speed will slow back down and without wings the spin will not sustain itself. The first really bad one I got in, I opened wings too soon after balling up, and it just started spinning again, so I pulled my stuff in and waited a bit longer. In my mind an unrecoverable spin would be one where inertia pins your arms and legs OUT and you physically CAN'T ball up. I don't know if that is possible, but if it is, the concept is terrfying since you would not be able to touch ANYTHING (hackey, wing cutaways, emergency handles), which would imply you're going in. However, most people who have told me they were in an "unrecoverable flatspin" either (a) cutaway wings (or tried like you say you did) or (b) pulled their hackey (like you did). Well guess what, both (a) and (b) require pulling an arm (or both) all the way in, so I would think if you can pull your arms in to grab handles or hackey, you can pull them in to ball up all the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone.

On the topic of the Gravitron: Saskia - I think it is quite different from an eagle in execution since there is such a large "carve" component to it due to the forward speed we free-flockers have. An eagle is done about a small fixed radius, while we as birds are carving all over the sky (around a large radius) while maintaining proximity and changing our orientation. I just got back from a long weekend of popping many aerobatic cherries, and at sunset today I tried my first Gravitron with Omar. It went pretty well although I stupidly recorded over my video, but maybe if I get a chance I will post Omar's.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Wow, that is scary Mark! I'm pretty sure only the newer BirdMan suits (Firebird, PHI, S3-S) have the newer cutaway handle design. I am curious to see how the tabs ("partly") made it so you couldn't cutaway. You'll have to show me next time we meet up.

It made the loop much harder(smaller) to grab and my hand tended to slide over the tab when I was feeling for the loop. Also when you do grab it you have to pull it down(against the velcro) and then out. You can't peel and pull.

I say "partly" to blame, because it was my last jump of the day and I've been working myself tired getting ready for the Keys boogie. I just didn't have the strength to pull it down and out when I finally did get a partial grab onto it.

I also could've sworn someone else reported a hard pull with the wing cables on a PHI recently, to the point where the person tore off the tab covering the handle.

Quote

No offense to you Mark, but it is my opinion that people who think their spin was unrecoverable, even after trying balling up, did not ball up long enough. NOTE: initially after balling up, your spin speed will actually INCREASE due to rotational inertia. However, if you hold the "ball" long enough (a couple seconds) the speed will slow back down and without wings the spin will not sustain itself.

No offense taken and you're likely right. I balled up very quickly but was still spinning fairly wildly after a holding it a bit. My frame of mind was "well fuck this" and I went for chopping the wings. I wasn't in the mood to play anymore
Once I mod the suit and get comfortable with being able to chop the wings, I'll play with being a spinning top on it.

[funnjumper 0]

Gday matt

You guessed right, in an unrecoverable spin u cant bring your legs in. I got whipped into a spin so fast it was impossible to bring my legs in due to the speed. I had experienced a flat spin before and recovered using the ball up method, but this time I was stuffed! I was amazed and surprised that I wasnt able to bring my legs and thought Id better do something fast. In this case I raised an arm using all my strength into the direction i was spinning. This seemed to slow the speed of the spin down and combined with my whole body trying to turn over I was able to get back over. I was flying a skyflyer 3 prototype at the time. I havent been in a flatspin since so I cant say ive tested the technique but that was my experience at the time.
Once I got to the ground the nerves and adrenalin kicked in big time!

Rocket

[The111 0]

Quote

I balled up very quickly but was still spinning fairly wildly after a holding it a bit. My frame of mind was "well fuck this" and I went for chopping the wings. I wasn't in the mood to play anymore

One thing I noticed on my flatspins (and other "shit hits the fan" moments in skydiving) is temporal distortion. I struggled with one flatspin for what seemed like 10 seconds or so and was starting to get worried just before I righted myself. Upon reviewing the video, the "10 seconds" was actually just under 2 seconds.

Rocket: so you were able to recover.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Buried 0]

If i'm understanding what you mean by 'tab' (like that of the GTi), I know the firebird and probably other 'velcroless' cutaways do not have this tab for the arms. There is a smaller tab for the legs.


Omar -

Quote

4- practicality

The lack of snaps, I can do without

The new suit has the snaps, it just wasn't put on the demo/first suits.

Actually I got in my first four jumps on my custom Firebird this past weekend with nathaniel (GTi) and Bryan (Stock Firebird who i dont think posts here). It's funny that there are slight insignificant differences between the stock and custom firebird that was received 2 weeks after - Some reinforment binding tape and the neoprene collar is a different matter (also different than the suit Scott had)

Byran and I are still trying to hone in the suit, but over all some good flights ranging consitently from the mid-low 50's up to the 60's range for the entire flight.

Regarding the acrobatics of the Firebird, when i was in a good position for a transition to a backfly it was seemless with fairly little alti loss. It seemed similar with barrel rolls too. Next time up i'll check out some flips and such.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[MarkM 0]

Quote

One thing I noticed on my flatspins (and other "shit hits the fan" moments in skydiving) is temporal distortion. I struggled with one flatspin for what seemed like 10 seconds or so and was starting to get worried just before I righted myself. Upon reviewing the video, the "10 seconds" was actually just under 2 seconds.

I think I lost it at about 8k and when I finally was under canopy I was under 4k, so I did spend some time at it.

Quote

If i'm understanding what you mean by 'tab' (like that of the GTi), I know the firebird and probably other 'velcroless' cutaways do not have this tab for the arms. There is a smaller tab for the legs.

Attached is what it looks like. Black is handle, blue is the tab, yellow cable, green is velcro, red is how you need to pull it. You can put about 2-3 fingers in the handle.

What I don't like is that it reduces your grab area for the handle(not that big a deal if it easily comes out), and you have to pull down across the velcro to release the handle. That's what I was having the problem with.

Here's the post where someone else had a hard pull with the wings on a PHI and actually tore off the tab http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1835712;search_string=tab;#1835712

[droquette 0]

THanks for the awesome video and the very informative report... I am sure many of us can learn alot.
keep flying and flokin!!!

Bs.
Dan

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[OmarPR 0]

Compared to the PHI and the Acro, the Firebird does not stay pressurized at 100% on a transition, especially going head down. It may not be so noticeable on other types of transitions but nevertheless deflation\re-inflation does occur, which is not entirely a bad thing because it takes less effort to execute certain manouvers that would otherwise be more difficult to execute on the Acro and the PHI.


I guess the meaning of acrobatics differs from person to person. But to me it is more than just back flying, barrel rolls and front loops. There is a number of other "tricks" out there: like (controlled) 360 flat spins, tuck turns (I preffer calling it the tuck and roll grandma), spirals, gravitrons, scary rolls (named after a Scary Perry trick), etc. not to menton a number of back-flying tricks. When all (or most) of these are explored, it is easier to find more pros and cons on these suits.

I never said that the Firebird has a bad fall rate on its back. What I meant was that compared to the Acro, the belly/back-fly fall rate difference is more noticeable on the Firebird. Overall I think the Firebird is a good ws, like I said in "5- overall perfomance" rating.

It's not just me. See for yourself

Thanx for the snap update. Have fun with your new Firebird. Let us know how it goes. Hope to see ya in PR.

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds