Falko 0 #1 July 27, 2005 Hello Forum, I have an Atom Legend (size 0) and am wondering if anyone here is also flying WS using this gear. I've never done a WS jump but will do very soon, and I'd like to be prepared correctly: Right canopy (thinking Spectre150), appropriate gear modifications. Seems to me that most people are recommending a longer bridle (at least 2.40m ~ 8ft), which is why I wrote PdF an email on Monday asking if they offer a longer bridle as a spare part. No reply as of yet. A rigger here in Germany told me they don't (he had asked the same question), they only have standard size bridles. If one would simply replace the bridle with a third-party spare part it would void the ETSO (that is the EASA certification) Also, do I need a corner modification with this rig? Thanks in advance for your replies. Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JFK 0 #2 July 27, 2005 Hey! 80WS jumps using my Atom Legend 0 and Electra 170. No worries and no modifications needed. Have a PdF bridle/kill line/PC and no worries. Have been flying Classic I, GTI, S3 and S3S and no problems using this setup. Opening after arching and collapsing wings or opening in full flight. Jul.JFK #1013 PM Me No Adrenalin.... No Fun! "Minds are like parachutes the Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #3 July 27, 2005 I've made around 100 WS jumps in an unmodified Legend(size 00), no problems. Just to be sure(and just because I can), I made the "open-corner mod"(leaving about 25mm of the seam intact). Later I made a new bag with the dimensions of the bag rotated 90 degrees; with the new bag I can pack grommet-to-pin without having an ugly bulge in the main container. And then, since on the Legend the bridle is sewn on the bag, I made the new bridle slightly longer. I've made another 50 jumps with the corner mod, and yet another 50 with the new bag/bridle. Still no problems, and now I'm pretty much dumping from full flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #4 July 27, 2005 Thanks Erno & JFK for your replies QuoteJust to be sure(and just because I can), I made the "open-corner mod"(leaving about 25mm of the seam intact). Since noone had answered to your old thread Atom Legend and open corners, could you provide a few photos/sketches and/or manual on how to do that correctly? QuoteLater I made a new bag with the dimensions of the bag rotated 90 degrees; with the new bag I can pack grommet-to-pin without having an ugly bulge in the main container. I have a picture in mind of how that would look like, but am just guessing. How exactly do you put it in the container (orientation of lines etc)? If you could also provide a few photos, it would be nice to see that! QuoteAnd then, since on the Legend the bridle is sewn on the container, I made the new bridle slightly longer. ... you mean sewn on the bag. What bridle length (pin to PC) do you use/recommend? Talking about all these modifications to a TSO'ed rig: These mods do void the TSO, especially the corner mod, don't they!? From what I've heard it's even void if one were to only modify the bridle length? Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #5 July 27, 2005 The only parts on a rig that are certified via the TSO are the harness and the reserve container. Otherwise changing the BOC would break the TSO, so would changing the closing loop or even adding bridle protection.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #6 July 27, 2005 QuoteThe only parts on a rig that are certified via the TSO are the harness and the reserve container. Yes that's what I always thought. But a few months ago I sent an email to Parachutes-de-France, asking if I may replace the PdF-reversed-risers with standard grommetted risers (like Aerodynes). The answer was "no" because it would void the TSO, as main risers are considered a part of the harness. Then again, I have conflicting statements from Riggers who told me that it's ok to change the risers on an Atom. I guess they only meant "technically ok" (standard risers are no problem on an Atom, just you have to reach a few cm higher to reach the toggles because of the position of the main D-Ring.) QuoteOtherwise changing the BOC would break the TSO, so would changing the closing loop or even adding bridle protection. Maybe some insurance companies lawyers would tell you exactly that?! Say: "a closing loop or BOC which has not been supplied by the original manufacturer and is not part of the spare parts supply list of THIS container voids the TSO". Who really knows? I've heard so many conflicting statements regarding the whole "voiding the TSO" issue that I don't know what to believe any more. Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #7 July 27, 2005 QuoteThe only parts on a rig that are certified via the TSO are the harness and the reserve container. Otherwise changing the BOC would break the TSO, so would changing the closing loop or even adding bridle protection. Is this also true in Europe?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #8 July 27, 2005 QuoteSeems to me that most people are recommending a longer bridle (at least 2.40m ~ 8ft), which is why I wrote PdF an email on Monday asking if they offer a longer bridle as a spare part. No reply as of yet. Just received that reply from Jean-Pierre Maenner: Sorry Falko We don't have any longer bridle for use with Wingsuit jumps Jean-Pierre Hmm... Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #9 July 27, 2005 Quote But a few months ago I sent an email to Parachutes-de-France, asking if I may replace the PdF-reversed-risers with standard grommetted risers (like Aerodynes). The answer was "no" because it would void the TSO, as main risers are considered a part of the harness. Good thing I didn't ask them before I replaced my reverse risers with Miniforce... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #10 July 27, 2005 QuoteSince noone had answered to your old thread Atom Legend and open corners, could you provide a few photos/sketches and/or manual on how to do that correctly? I'll see if I can get some photos later this week. QuoteI have a picture in mind of how that would look like, but am just guessing. How exactly do you put it in the container (orientation of lines etc)? If you could also provide a few photos, it would be nice to see that! Just think about a normal bag being packed grommet to pin. You'll notice that the bag is too tall for the container. Then, without rotating anything, just make the bag shorter and wider, so that it occupies the same space as the original bag. I'll see if I can get some photos later this week. QuoteWhat bridle length (pin to PC) do you use/recommend? The exact length is "slighly longer than the original". I wouldn't worry about it too much, I think the original bridle is long enough. QuoteTalking about all these modifications to a TSO'ed rig: These mods do void the TSO, especially the corner mod, don't they!? Yeah, maybe. Probably. I don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #11 July 27, 2005 QuoteI have a picture in mind of how that would look like, but am just guessing. How exactly do you put it in the container (orientation of lines etc)? If you could also provide a few photos, it would be nice to see that! Pictures of a Birdman specific D bag can be found HERE"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #12 July 28, 2005 QuotePictures of a Birdman specific D bag can be found HERE Ah thanks, now I understand. That makes sense! I bet you never had any line twists, that looks like the optimal gear/bag combination for WS to me. Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #13 July 28, 2005 QuoteThe exact length is "slighly longer than the original". I wouldn't worry about it too much, I think the original bridle is long enough. Which btw is exactly 1.90m (~ 6'3") from Pin to PC (measured it yesterday). Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #14 July 28, 2005 QuotePictures of a Birdman specific D bag can be found HERE Nice! Did you have it custom made or can you order those from somewhere? Mine is really just the original bag with the dimensions rotated 90 degrees. That makes packing slightly more difficult; especially the non-locking stows on the side of the bag don't work too well. I am planning to move them on the closing flap as soon as I find a sewing machine and the time to do it. Also the bag is VERY shallow(as in "not very tall"); bagging the canopy on my bag requires a somewhat different technique. I've thought about making the next version the same as the original bag, except that the grommet and bridle would be in a different place, 90 degrees off the original location. That would cause the bridle to pull in a very strange direction though(see attachment). I'm going to try it("as soon as I find the time and a sewing machine") and expect some funky openings. Or it might work just fine. We'll see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #15 July 28, 2005 QuoteNice! Did you have it custom made or can you order those from somewhere? I had Jump Shack build it among other BirdMan specific modifications when they made my rigs. All of the mods I had done are now currently available from Jump Shack. If you want a BirdMan specific D bag all you have to do is call/E-mail them and they will hook you up."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obi 0 #16 August 1, 2005 Hi, I jump an Atom 0000 with a CF89 and have made quite some ws-jumps with it. No problem at all. I use a 10ft bridle, 28 zp-pc and have opened the corners a bit. That's it. Stefan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #17 September 7, 2005 Ok, better late than never; here are some pictures. The blue rig is an unmodified Legend 00, the black and yellow one is my modified Legend 00. Mine has a Hurricane 135 in it, the blue one has a Katana 120. IMG_2039s and IMG_2040s are close-ups of the open containers, IMG_2039s shows the modified container and IMG_2040s the original one. IMG_2047s shows how the bag sits "grommet-to-pin" in both rigs. My bag lays flat filling the whole container unlike the original bag in the blue rig. IMG_2048s shows the rigs closed "grommet-to-pin" the blue rig has an ugly bulge on it. The picture does it no justice. IMG_2037s shows the effect of the opened corners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #18 September 8, 2005 Thanks a lot! Mind if I stop by and have you modify my Legend? Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #19 September 8, 2005 Well, you'll need to stop by when I'm in Australia as that's the only place my rigging licence is valid in... But any rigger should be able to build you a new bag and to open the corner seams a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
