RSL for wingsuit jumps?

[dragon2 0]

I'm really pro-rsl, but I personally don't use my rsl for wingsuit jumps, and since I also fly camera and do ocasional CRW, I leave mine disconnected even for the rare FS or FF jump. I also have had 4 "real" cutaways and 2 intentional cutaways.

Does anyone here use an rsl for wingsuit jumps? If so, why? If not, why?

Like I said, I don't, and I tend to tell people that are experienced enough (IMO) to leave it off for a wingsuit jump, but if they are not, te keep it on if they feel better about that.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[kevin922 0]

i've never used an RSL and leave it up to my students when I teach Birdman. You should be pulling higher when doing wingsuit jumps and should have more time to deal with things..

[Nidez 0]

never used apart of my AFF course...
I have two cut-away ( one with wingsuit two weeks ago) and i really prefear to stop spinning before action the reserve handle, if i'm low... well i spent 1000 eu for a Cypress...

edit:
when wingsuiting just pull some more meters higher...
two minutes and some second are ok, i don't need to do low polls.

Marco "Pazzo" Pistolesi
pistolesi.marco(at)gmail.com

[voodew1 0]

I on the other hand use my RSL's on all 3 of my rigs and they range from highly loaded to mid load.

The only time I will disconnect my RSL is if I have on a full camera setup -- side mount video only doesn't count for me.(added CReW)

What would a wingsuit have to due with disconnecting the RSL????

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[kevin922 0]

Quote

I on the other hand use my RSL's on all 3 of my rigs and they range from highly loaded to mid load.

The only time I will disconnect my RSL is if I have on a full camera setup -- side mount video only doesn't count for me.(added CReW)

What would a wingsuit have to due with disconnecting the RSL????

I've had a spinning mal on a wingsuit which put me on my back.. deploying a reserve on your back, while better than not deploying at all, isn't the "best" in my opinion way of deploying a reserve. In my situation I cut away flipped over went to stable flight then pulled the reserve. was under a reserve by 2K feet.

[voodew1 0]

I have video of mine -- spinning mal with a wingsuit and the reserve opened just as it is designed to.

In a spinning mal as you cut away you will be thrown away some what horizontally from the point you cutaway from -- the reserve will be deploying in the same manner - it doesn't care about body position just direction of the airflow.

I hope you never find yourself low in a mal when an RSL could have saved your life -- but it is your decision - I simply stated mine.

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[kevin922 0]

Quote

I have video of mine -- spinning mal with a wingsuit and the reserve opened just as it is designed to.

In a spinning mal as you cut away you will be thrown away some what horizontally from the point you cutaway from -- the reserve will be deploying in the same manner - it doesn't care about body position just direction of the airflow.

I hope you never find yourself low in a mal when an RSL could have saved your life -- but it is your decision - I simply stated mine.

Yeah, as did I... Interested to see what everyone else has to say about RSLs when it comes to wingsuits..

[voodew1 0]

Quote

Interested to see what everyone else has to say about RSLs when it comes to wingsuits..

I would like to know reasons why you should disconnect -- real reasons that could cause something bad to happen

(such as entanglement with a camera helmet where the camera helmet must be released/jettisoned before the reserve canopy should be deployed)

I don't really care to hear about "I can pull my own handles" or "because I heard about this one guy that one time had an RSL and............

Just real reasons as to why it would be important to disconnect an RSL for a wingsuit jump.

So at this time there are nine votes for never have an RSL connected ---- LETS HEAR WHY!!!!

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[JGarcia 0]

Call me a control freak, but I'd like to be the one to decide precisely when that reserve is coming out of my container. I fly a camera set-up on 100% of my jumps... whether it's a top mounted video/stills or side mounted video. If I cut away and have an entanglement with my camera gear (even though I've taken great measures to reduce that possibility), I'd like to be able to clear it before dumping a reserve into a gnarly mess.

I also fly highly loaded (2.1+ WL) Crossbraced canopies on 100% of my jumps and know the reality of finding yourself spinning on your back and having to cut-away on a wingsuit flight--(gotta keep that leg wing collapsed!). I had this scenario develop a few months back, and I'm glad I had the option of getting face to earth, after jetisonning my main before deploying the reserve. I was under a reserve by 2000 ft, even afer losing a ton of altitude to a spinning mal.

I choose to fly these canopies, and jump with a camera set up, but you won't find me deploying any lower than 4000K on any wingsuit jump. This affords me much more time to resolve any issues than the split sencond an RSL would give me. Besides, like many of us, I enjoy canopy flight as much as any freefall, so opening high gives me more than one fringe benefit.

Cheers!

--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

LETS HEAR WHY!!!!

Julien

My reason is, "because I want to", and I have been under a badly spinning line twisted reserve after cutting away a badly spinning main.



Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[heyday 0]

Canopy: Spectre 150
Reserve: PD143
Container: Vector III Micron with Skyhook

Wingsuit jump:

Malfunction: Packer failed to reopen collapsable slider on one side resulting in line entanglement with slider - net result spinning malfunction - and yes, a Spectre can spin fast in a given environment.

After realising the cutaway was only option I did my drill and the reserve was out with no twists in what appeared to be around 1 second. I was quite astonished that it was that quick smooth and stable.

All credit to the manufacture of Skyhook for such a great tool.

I believe the RSL is arguably great for students and low-experience jumpers - however the Skyhook system seems to be an enormous improvement in safety and design. I would be happy jumping with or without it - but I do feel that having this tool is increasing my own safety.

The Skyhook acts very differently than a RSL. As an experienced jumper I don't think I would want to use a RSL with or without a wingsuit - however - the Skyhook system I am completely happy with.

David
- who now packs his own rig

"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."...Steven Wright

[ikenever 1]

Got one too! Wing suit specific!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I don't have RSL's on either of my sport rigs, I do not have the option of "unsnapping" it for different occastions. Personally, I don't have a problem with RSL's for just about any skydive; I just don't choose to use one. I DO have one on my tandem rig (which I always keep connected). Like my boy, Jairo, I jump a sub-100 main on every jump but tandems and I jump my video camera quite a bit.

In 4,300 skydives I have:
-two "regular" jump reserve rides with no RSL
-two wingsuit reserve rides(one very, very ugly) with no RSL
-one tandem reserve ride

[nicknitro71 0]

I personally don't see any cons in using an RSL with a WS. I like RSLs. My sport rig and WS rig both have RSL connected. The only time I don't use it is when doing CRW and BASE

Memento Audere Semper

903

[verticalflyer 11]

Personally I disconnect my RSL, they are great devices and save a lot of lives. However with a wingsuit and the potential for bizarre orientations and large burbles from wings I like to initiate a reserve deployment on my own rather than the RSl's timeline. I had a mal in 2002 at the herc boogie, which was a spinner, I was not back to earth but I still preffered deploying my reserve myself. Its a personal thing and I stick to my hard deck plus always have an AAD in addition.

However if I was to have a premature deployment or horseshoe, I would rather work the problem and deploy the reserve at the point I believed was the best and not simply the point I cut away the main, especially with the potential burble severe turns etc possible with the wingsuit in a worst case scenario.

Cheers

Fraser

Dont just talk about it, Do it!

[VectorBoy 0]

In hopfully most wingsuit jumps you are deploying your main higher than normal. You have time to recognize and deal with a mal, in most cases, if you follow this standard. I have taken an almost preverse pleasure, during my rides, in going back into slower and straighter belly to earth wingsuit flight after my hard, hard back spinning malfunction cuttaway before deploying my reserve.

The world stopped spinning and comming at me as fast as when I was under my hard-spinning diving malfunctioning main. Reserve deployments on all mals were all sub terminal and straight. This was afforded by deploying high to begin with and could not have been done otherwise.

Few things as frightfull as line twists under a reserve. The only two I can think of would be line twists under a reserve while very low and second reserve twists low while still zipped up in a wingsuit . Been there and seen it... from the ground. No thanks I'll pass.

Although one reason you may want an RSL for winged flight would be if you flew a suit that, either by design or size, could possibly swallow your reserve handle after you cut away your main.

[ikenever 1]

During our last safety day at my local dz I heard one of our locals comment on his first cutaway. He said he fell back to earth and flipped onto his belly before deploying his reserve. I said you were looking at your main canopy when you cutaway weren't you. He said yes! Well thats what happens. For those who haven't had the opportunity to cutaway or who have had stability issues heres some helpful hints:

After you make the decision to cutaway, locate your cutaway and reserve handles. Then TRY to look at the ground instead of your canopy. This will help the orientation of your brain (equilibrium). It's kinda like going into the direction that you're looking. Bend at the knees and bring your legs behind you as much as possible and keep your knees close together to minimize your leg wing burble. This will put you into an arch position. Then cutaway! If you don't use an RSL hold your arms in close to your body look at the reserve ripcord and pull it with the arms in together and out together motion. Once you pull keep your arms in close to your body until opening. After pulling it is effective to look behind you to see what your reserve pilotchute is doing. (hopefully it's job) Looking back helps free a pilotchute if it is caught in a burble.

When cutting away try to use balance and proper body position. Hold still don't fight it! The mentioned body position goes for either with or without an RSL.

My cutaway history:
2 canopy transfers from disabled canopies
1 tandem with a quadriplegic passenger (RSL)
2 spinning malfunctions (1 on wing suit)
2 intentional cutaways
1 ruptured canopy
1 multiple broken lines canopy
11 canopy wraps (3 in one day filming (From Wings Came Flight)&(Flight of the Dream Team)

[The111 0]

If you do a search you will find my post about my 2nd cutaway. It was my 14th wingsuit jump. I had linetwists bad enough, on my Spectre 170, that I chose to cutaway. That decision will not be debated.

Anyway, after chopping, I knew I was very high and felt my back to the wind, so I waited about 2 seconds (by my perception) and arched like mad until I felt the wind on my belly. Then I pulled silver. Then I felt myself get jerked upwards and rotated 180 degrees really fast (think whiplash), my back made a lot of inhumane cracking noise and I couldn't see or breathe for a while.

Nothing was broken, just muscle damage I guess. I never got a good diagnosis as to what it was, but all I know is that it hurt to even walk for 2 months. It's been 15 months now... I jump and do anything else I want but my lower back still hurts every day.

In retrospect, what I did wrong was: I left my legwing wide open during my "2 seconds" before pulling silver, while my armwings were closed, since my hands were in front of my body. This put me headlow into the wind, and coupled with the speed of my reserve opening, it HURT. So, lesson #1 = don't go headlow in a reserve WS opening.

Here's the funniest part. I had an RSL. It was ALWAYS hooked up. I checked it every plane ride and every time I put the rig on. I'd literally never seen it disconnected. So imagine my surprise, when I was flying my reserve canopy, and thought to myself (once I could see again), "wait a minute! How the fuck did I even have the luxury of taking those 2 seconds since I have an RSL?!" I looked down on my right shoulder, and sure enough, the RSL was still sitting there on the velcro, with the shackle WIDE OPEN. I made some posts asking about how that could have happened and got some interesting replies (I think the most interesting was when Tonto said his RSL only worked 3/8 times). Regardless, I had already decided to remove the RSL. I had proved that (a) I didn't need it and (b) it didn't do its job the only time I ever needed it - even if it was a freak occurence, in my experience it had malfunctioned 100% of the time and that was too much.

So, even though I don't have my RSL anymore, if I do have to chop in the wingsuit, I will probably deploy my reserve *immediately* after since I'm paranoid of gaining speed and having a headlow painful reserve opening. Although touching my kneebones together is now part of my EP's, so hopefully I wouldn't go headlow. I'll have to admit that in a normal WS flight I've never tried touching my handles... I should try that to get used to the idea of pulling the reserve handle while in terminal freefall, in the WS, while keeping my head high.

Quote

11 canopy wraps (3 in one day ...)

Crazy...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[TomAiello 25]

I've found that looking at the horizon gives me the best body position on cutaway. My procedure is generally to locate my handles, arch, focus on the horizon, cutaway, and pull.

I'm not sure how hard this would be to do on a skydive, or even if my experience has any relevance at all. All of my cutaways (around 30) have been intentionals on BASE jumps, and none have been over 1000'.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Jiggs 0]

I have had 2 chops and on both of them I have taken the reserve to Terminal.
One of which was on a spinning mal (lineover) on a Sabre 150 while jumping my S3, I deployed around 3.5k and I played around with it for awhile and tried to clear it to no avail. (I actually unzipped the arms - I only used the wing cutaway handles after I opened the reserve. Looked very funny as I had 3 wingsuit and 2 normal handles dangling out of my suit :-)
When I chopped that I still had a fair bit of spin going when I got off it. It took me a few seconds to get it all sorted and flying flat and stable, also it was a lot of fun to fly without the weight of the main - it felt very clean from the slow speed exit. Anyway I would much rather open a few hundred feet lower with the best chance of opening it up cleanly PROVIDED I have the height to do so. The RSL would remove that opportunity.

My second chop was on a wildly spinning 120 Stiletto, in comparisson it was incredible easy to get stable afterward, just flipped over and was stable straight away. (I took that one to terminal as well :-) - that one had a 5 second delay from when I pulled the reserve handle to the reserve opened (at terminal). That was somewhat scary (borrowed gear)

RSL's are a choice, but I would prefer not to have one. I can see why they can be useful but for other reasons I would prefer not to use one.
(I also do a fair bit of camera)

"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."

"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus

[The111 0]

Here's a silly question... but I was never taught this in my BM course.

Exactly what movements would you use to deploy your reserve from terminal? Assume some sort of high speed mal that doesn't require chop, or you already have chopped and are terminal again. You're flying straight and steady, good forward speed, and need to pull silver. What do you do?

I'm guessing - close legs. Bring both hands to chest, collapsing arm wings. Now, do you just pull silver with your left hand, or do you need to move both arms the same, as with a normal pull. I'm thinking it's not as important as a normal pull since the wings are closed, but it might still be nice to stay symmetric.

Thoughts please.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Jiggs 0]

I would say definetly close leg wings and arch. Since I had the arm wings unzipped I basically kept my free arm in when I deployed still trying to be symetrical & stable. Since I had picked up a fair amount of forward drive, the reserve hammered open. Really took the wind out of me.

Call it a bonus but probably not that essential.

"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."

"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus

[The111 0]

Quote

Since I had picked up a fair amount of forward drive, the reserve hammered open. Really took the wind out of me.

That's what I'm afraid of. Read my post above if you haven't already.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[bodypilot1 0]

Matt

Symetry for stability is good for stablility, but many people learn to fly stable though their body isn't symetric.

Though it may not have been covered by whomever gave you you BM training, you have had many jumps since then that you have spoken of.

These are thing you, and everyother wingsuit flyer, should be doing to during your wingsuit flights as you improve on your skills as a wingsuit pilot.

Finding the out how to fly your wingsuitsuit stable, in every aspect, and knowing all the "what if's" when I do this, and the "what if's" when I do that, is the true sign of a great WS pilot.

Try flying your suit next time with your hands on ALL YOUR HANDLES, in pulling simulation, and learn to do it well.
During your future wingsuit flights, try and exiting the plane and finding out all the "what if's", on the maximum performance of your wingsuit and the times of the "Holy Shit's".


Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[voodew1 0]

Quote

but I was never taught this in my BM course.

You don't recall -- emergency procedures stay the same. Arch - look -reach - pull - arch

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid