TomAiello 25
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Tom said it better...
Bridle over?: Different from a horshoe mal? Bridle over the nose of an inflating canopy.
I imagine this failure mode exists equally for monkey fists ? But yet not so for the short section of PVC tube as a handle?
Its a guess but is it the weight of that little leather sucker that flings forward over the nose of the canopy as the canopy slows down during opening?
I imagine this failure mode exists equally for monkey fists ? But yet not so for the short section of PVC tube as a handle?
Its a guess but is it the weight of that little leather sucker that flings forward over the nose of the canopy as the canopy slows down during opening?
KrisFlyZ 0
A malfunction happened to a jumper at SDC on his first WS jump. The bridle tied itself in a knot around the PC(I think the PC had a FF handle) causing a PC in tow. The jumper landed without injury after a two out on reserve deployment and an ensuing downplane with lines of the main wrapped around his leg.
The borrowed GTI had a "Jack The Ripper" Knife in it. He chopped the lines of his main.
I am not saying that the cause of this incident is a PC with a heavy handle, but it might have been.
Kris.
The borrowed GTI had a "Jack The Ripper" Knife in it. He chopped the lines of his main.
I am not saying that the cause of this incident is a PC with a heavy handle, but it might have been.
Kris.
I'm upgrading mine to a 30"ZP KL, 10' bridle and a PVC handle for use with my V1 (skydiving rig)
Some hackeys are attached close the PC and are attached on two sides of the hackey, like the PVC.
Some hackeys have only one attachment point and dangle away from the PC.
I would stay away from these.
After advice from some experienced individuals on PC's, I'm sticking with the PVC as opposed to an internal or floating handle.
The odds of PC mal are considerably low and I don't want to compromise not having a good, solid grip for the very unlikely chance of a PC mal.
Take into account how you are pulling too.
If you're in full freefall before throwing, there's not much chance for the PC to dance in a huge burble and knot up.
If you pull in full flight with a good throw there's not much chance for your PC to dance in a huge burble and knot up.
When I say full flight I mean full glide with the highest forward speed you can muster.
If you flare out or just get floaty and create a huge burble where the PC can dance around after a weak throw...chances would be higher.
JIM
Some hackeys are attached close the PC and are attached on two sides of the hackey, like the PVC.
Some hackeys have only one attachment point and dangle away from the PC.
I would stay away from these.
After advice from some experienced individuals on PC's, I'm sticking with the PVC as opposed to an internal or floating handle.
The odds of PC mal are considerably low and I don't want to compromise not having a good, solid grip for the very unlikely chance of a PC mal.
Take into account how you are pulling too.
If you're in full freefall before throwing, there's not much chance for the PC to dance in a huge burble and knot up.
If you pull in full flight with a good throw there's not much chance for your PC to dance in a huge burble and knot up.
When I say full flight I mean full glide with the highest forward speed you can muster.
If you flare out or just get floaty and create a huge burble where the PC can dance around after a weak throw...chances would be higher.
JIM
TomAiello 25
Bridle over occurs when the bridle wraps the PC and knots it off, preventing inflation. A single attachment point handle contributes to this, as does weight on the apex of the PC (which is why handled BASE PC's come standard with a lightweight handle that has two attachment points).
I have seen this malfunction before in person. I've also seen the PC make it all the way through the loop, and result in a knot in the bridle.
This malfunction has been the cause of at least one documented BASE fatality.
I have seen this malfunction before in person. I've also seen the PC make it all the way through the loop, and result in a knot in the bridle.
This malfunction has been the cause of at least one documented BASE fatality.
For making your first flights the gear you currently have is perfectly fine. If you decide to stick with it(and you will), Birdman recommends the following modifications:
A 9' bridle with your standard PC/hackey.
Cut corners (to aid in D bag extraction)
Pack grommet to pin ( Your D bag grommet, or where the bridle exits the bag, facing up) This is basically putting your D bag in the container, not rotating it and closing the container.
Your current container and main are good choices for Birdman, the pilot being one of many good wingsuit canopies out there. Many people jump with no modifications to their gear but eventually it is a good idea to do as it alleviates many of the post opening issues that one will encounter eventually.
Complete Birdman modifications can be seen here
editted to add: If memory serves me correctly, Aubrey from Aerodyne told me they offer Birdman mods on their gear from the factory. As with any mod, check with the manufacturer of your specific gear and have work done by a reputable rigger.
A 9' bridle with your standard PC/hackey.
Cut corners (to aid in D bag extraction)
Pack grommet to pin ( Your D bag grommet, or where the bridle exits the bag, facing up) This is basically putting your D bag in the container, not rotating it and closing the container.
Your current container and main are good choices for Birdman, the pilot being one of many good wingsuit canopies out there. Many people jump with no modifications to their gear but eventually it is a good idea to do as it alleviates many of the post opening issues that one will encounter eventually.
Complete Birdman modifications can be seen here
editted to add: If memory serves me correctly, Aubrey from Aerodyne told me they offer Birdman mods on their gear from the factory. As with any mod, check with the manufacturer of your specific gear and have work done by a reputable rigger.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING
Thanks for the clarification Tom. Glen
damn, thought I was on track with 33 inch pc and 11 ft bridle. mabe i should pull lower so the air is denser and might increase snatch force - just kidding man!!!!!
Only he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived
KrisFlyZ 0
QuoteI'm upgrading mine to a 30"ZP KL, 10' bridle and a PVC handle for use with my V1 (skydiving rig)
Am I right in assuming that 10' is total bridle length? 9' from pin to PC.
Kris.
TomAiello 25
For those using extra long bridles:
Be aware that BASE gear went down that road (I've seen some old gear with 12 and 15 foot bridles) and came back. Not only is there a point of diminishing returns in terms of escaping the burble, but there are also some weird entanglement issues with long bridles. In one documented BASE accident, a 12' bridle came all the way around the nose, allowing the PC to wrap the slider during deployment. On a skydive, this would likely require a cutaway.
Be aware that BASE gear went down that road (I've seen some old gear with 12 and 15 foot bridles) and came back. Not only is there a point of diminishing returns in terms of escaping the burble, but there are also some weird entanglement issues with long bridles. In one documented BASE accident, a 12' bridle came all the way around the nose, allowing the PC to wrap the slider during deployment. On a skydive, this would likely require a cutaway.
One foot longer than stock is the only thing we (BirdMan) recommend.
aubsmell 0
The Pilot is an excellent canopy for Birdman, I have heaps of jumps on one with my S3 with great openings all around.
As for the Icon, our standard bridal length is 117 inches, wich is longer than most, so no issues there.
Also the icon has fairly shallow corners, we kicked around the idea of engineering mods specific to wing suit flight, but because there are three of us working in my office that all jump suits, and none of us have had any sort of problems on deployment, we haven't persued it.
I have jumped the I1, 2, and 3 with a variety of canopies, over about 150 jumps, with only clean deployments. The other two guys, don't have quite those numbers but have also been very positive about the deployments.
We have a couple of BMI's jumping Icon's as well, with no negative comments.
I hope this helps.
As for the Icon, our standard bridal length is 117 inches, wich is longer than most, so no issues there.
Also the icon has fairly shallow corners, we kicked around the idea of engineering mods specific to wing suit flight, but because there are three of us working in my office that all jump suits, and none of us have had any sort of problems on deployment, we haven't persued it.
I have jumped the I1, 2, and 3 with a variety of canopies, over about 150 jumps, with only clean deployments. The other two guys, don't have quite those numbers but have also been very positive about the deployments.
We have a couple of BMI's jumping Icon's as well, with no negative comments.
I hope this helps.
"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"
KrisFlyZ 0
Aubrey,
It was good flying with you at Eloy.
This may be an ambitious suggestion but one idea that came to my mind as a possible Birdman specific option by rig manufacturers is riser covers ala Base rig style. I don't know where I read this(probably on the morpheus website) but they say the 3 rings exposed to the relative wind offer a lot of resistance and that the riser covers would offer an improvement in performance.
I did mention this to Justin at Mirage Systems during the holiday boogie and he said it may be a modification that requires re-certification. Like I said ambitious.
Kris.
It was good flying with you at Eloy.
This may be an ambitious suggestion but one idea that came to my mind as a possible Birdman specific option by rig manufacturers is riser covers ala Base rig style. I don't know where I read this(probably on the morpheus website) but they say the 3 rings exposed to the relative wind offer a lot of resistance and that the riser covers would offer an improvement in performance.
I did mention this to Justin at Mirage Systems during the holiday boogie and he said it may be a modification that requires re-certification. Like I said ambitious.
Kris.
aubsmell 0
QuoteThis may be an ambitious suggestion but one idea that came to my mind as a possible Birdman specific option by rig manufacturers is riser covers ala Base rig style. I don't know where I read this(probably on the morpheus website) but they say the 3 rings exposed to the relative wind offer a lot of resistance and that the riser covers would offer an improvement in performance.
This won't work on the Icon (I'm pretty sure, I'm not an engineer) but I've heard the topic discussed in relation to the freedom of movement of the 3 ring system (or in our case the miniforce system), just as a precaution, the system needs to be free and clear of any obstruction. I'm sure you could design one that went over it, yet was completely clear of the rings, when open, but that would be more along the lines of a complete redesign of the rig.
Also, this being a personal statement, I think the release system is the most important piece of safety equipment on a container, and I always want it in plain sight, always.
"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"
Same reason we avoid them in BASE. They can encourage a bridle-over malfunction of the PC. On a BASE jump, this is obvious death (and has resulted in such). On a skydive, it may just result in firing your reserve through a trailing PC--which might not result in wrapping the two.
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