Wingsuit instruction

[VectorBoy 0]

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If you truly want to advance wingsuit flying and training, then get in the air. Starting flying further and longer. Do some technical flocking. Dial in some tricks and make up some new ones. Find new ways to plan and debrief dives. Do some cool rigging work. Take up more students, learn from their mistakes, and come up with some new training techniques.

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> Steve thats what some of us are doing and it is exactly that which makes some of the BMI's unhappy. Unhappy enough to post remarks about unrated pilots doing exactly whats on your list. You were a rebel yourself before you drank the cool-aid. Did you kill anybody back then?
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you guys pick up a wingsuit and decide that the best thing for you to do is undermine their efforts. Accept the training the way it is right now, and find ways to improve it. Removing or ignoring what is established and is built upon years of knowledge is hurtful. Keep your mouths closed and your hands off the keyboard unless you have something productive to say.

Please stop or I will hack this site and ban you.

We are not undermining anything. We do not remove or ignore parts from a standard course. Steve if you gave a course and I gave a course I doubt there would be a hell of a lot of difference. The on-line tone has been that some in the establishment don't want anybody who is not rated involved in anyway. Thats the problem, if we flock in a region we are all involved. Was this productive enough or is it time for the probe?

[Deuce 1]

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is it time for the probe?

Time can always be made for the probe!

[Professor 0]

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If you truly want to advance wingsuit flying and training, then get in the air. Starting flying further and longer. Do some technical flocking. Dial in some tricks and make up some new ones. Find new ways to plan and debrief dives. Do some cool rigging work. Take up more students, learn from their mistakes, and come up with some new training techniques.

We are. And it's great.

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Removing or ignoring what is established and is built upon years of knowledge is hurtful.

We are not criticizing the establishment. The FFC Voodew and I teach is exactly what we were taught by a BMI for our first jump course. We use the materials off BM's website. We want to be part of the establishment. We want to Be the establishment here. Voodew has offered to reimburse anyone who comes here and teaches us the BMI course. He is not saying that in jest, or to throw down a gauntlet, He is very serious. What we're unhappy about is the lack of response. We have the dropzones. We have the people. We have the desire. We have the love. We have the money.
We just want some help.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[flyinhigh 0]

Careful now Ted and Glen if you fight the establishment and you won't be quiet than they will ban you. Be the robot and follow the rules we are in a dictatorship
Voodew "still living free"

[ManBird 0]

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The on-line tone has been that some in the establishment don't want anybody who is not rated involved in anyway

I can see that, but let's make it clear. That's not the case. We don't want unqualified wingsuit pilots taking up new birds. That's doesn't necessarily mean "unrated".

There is no "tone" online. So, here:
I hope that helps set the tone. Go back and add that to all my posts. No ill will.

No one is attacking "unrated" instructors. All I've seen is an effort to help.

Inversely, I see two or three people incessantly posting that BMIs are money grubbing lazer whores that don't know their leg from a catbomb (a bomb made out of cats). You, Glen, are at least civil in your debates (Jason outright attacks BirdMan). You aren't being nasty, but you seem dissatisfied to say the least. These verbal attacks keep getting sent towards BirdMan to illicit a negative response, and then there's this effort try to twist words around. It's totally unproductive -- detrimental, if anything.

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We are not undermining anything.

Whether you know it or not, are trying to or not, you guys are. Jason started this thread with this: "...since the BMI rating is going to be worthless...". This isn't undermining BirdMan's efforts? He quoted the SIM guidelines, which BirdMan authored, and then tries to call BirdMan out. This is what I mean. There's no understanding or respect for the efforts of the BMI program from just 2 or 3 of you guys, but you're being the most vocal about it.

Glen, you, personally, aren't being nasty or aggressive, but you're helping those who are by endorsing their anti-edness, er... something.

I'm with you in thinking that training will eventually be up to the individual clubs/DZs/licensing organizations (we already have some of our own guidelines in place, based on BirdMan's program). But there's no guarantee this will happen, that's not how it is now, and if it happens, it will be the BMIs that instigate the change. Trying to undermine BirdMan's efforts now only push back the spread and quality of training. If it happens, it will happen due to the growth of the BMI program, not the removal of it.

Also note that any "official" rating or coach costs money to jump with, in any aspect of the sport. An "official" rating just gives further justification to charge extra money. If you think that shifting the power over the rating system will save the end user some cash, think again. You will likely see the exact opposite happen.

In my usual verbose manner, there it is.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[ManBird 0]

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Careful now Ted and Glen if you fight the establishment and you won't be quiet than they will ban you. Be the robot and follow the rules we are in a dictatorship
Voodew "still living free"

Only for a day. Go make a jump or tend to your house and fam.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[Professor 0]

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Careful now Ted and Glen if you fight the establishment and you won't be quiet than they will ban you. Be the robot and follow the rules we are in a dictatorship
Voodew "still living free"

beep, beep, boop... whrrrrrrrr.... ACK.

I'm not fighting anything. I'm all free love and puppies.

Did he really ban you? You're such a bitch.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[ManBird 0]

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Did he really ban you? You're such a bitch.

I'm a lazer bitch.

Dude just needs some cooling time. Screw the rules, I'm not a moderator. See kids, this is why you should use .NET.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[VectorBoy 0]

let's make it clear. That's not the case. We don't want unqualified wingsuit pilots taking up new birds. That's doesn't necessarily mean "unrated".

[ManBird 0]

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Cool, now I'm relieved! A BMI said it so its now BMI official policy.

It's been official policy. Believe me.

She was in the basement, but I'm afraid the cat bomb has detonated. That poor girl... and those cats... and that gum.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[VectorBoy 0]

Time can always be made for the probe!

[Deuce 1]

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Time can always be made for the probe!

Is that something they teach cadets at the academy?
"The plunger and other tools for close quarter persuasion". Valuable skill if you ever find yourself with a so inclined date or need to get the DZ crackho out your trailer in the morning.

[DShiznit 0]

First of all, I have ZERO wingsuit jumps. I have been infatuated with WS since I had 60 jumps, and have been doing all of the reading I can on the topic. I have read almost every post in this, and have several TRUSTED friends that will be taking me up on jump 201, so I feel I can reply to this thread.

I am in Texas, and of course, there are NO BMI/BMCI's in this state at all. As previously said, all of them are elsewhere. I rely on people such as Voodew who have the ambition to want to spread their knowledge of the nylon crack addiction to newcomers, so I greatly appreciate what he has said thus far. When the time comes, it is people like Voodew that will help me get in the air for the longest amount possible. I have appreciated what "Professor" has said as well. I see that he is in Texas and looking to help further the BM community by helping newcomers. Again, I applaud that as well. There are but a VERY small handful of BM people where I jump, none of which are BMI/BMCI. What do you think it would take for me to get the "proper" (as you would call it) instruction? My flying somewhere or paying for someone to come here in massive cost? Fuck that. Sorry, but fuck that. I'm not rich and I can't afford it.

That's where I come from....

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That's like saying Mother Theresa should of helped the poor people.

Yeah, and Stalin wasn't a very good leader....... are you serious?? What a horrible analogy.... And I suspect you are the almighty as well.... I understand what you have done for the BM community, and I applaud that. HOWEVER, it appears that you hold yourself in a God-like light, which is WAY offcourse. I think you should ground yourself before someone else who doesn't care what you think does.

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One down. Don't mess wit me, man. Yes, "wit".

Yes, and your e-cock is Ron Jeremy-like. Are you God now? I don't see "HH" or "Sangiro" in your title. I used to look into your posts, as you were an insight. Now I just see you as an arrogant prick.

That's my thoughts. Just from an outsider view.

Rock on, Voodew/Professor. I'll come jump with you.

[ManBird 0]

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What do you think it would take for me to get the "proper" (as you would call it) instruction?

You've missed the point entirely. You'll get proper instruction from Jason, despite the fact that he's being a total dork to anyone that put their time and money into getting a BMI rating. The point is that you don't need to be AGAINST BMIs just because you don't have immediate access to one.

A BMI should be your first choice. No BMI? Look for an experienced wingsuit pilot. No wingsuit pilots? Buy the suit and read the manual (like I did). I wrote in the December 2003 issue of Parachutist, and I'm re-iterating it here. Note that at the time that I wrote that, I was not a BMI and also had some feelings against the "establishment", but simply couldn't deny that they had the best program.

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I don't see "HH" or "Sangiro" in your title.

Don't need it.

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I used to look into your posts, as you were an insight. Now I just see you as an arrogant prick.

When was I ever not an arrogant prick? I believe I've even used those exact words to describe myself (though I probably also said "lazer" or "ninja" somewhere in there). Regardless of the fact that I'm a horrible dater and I don't call my mom enough, my insight and experience in wingsuit flying still stands.

C'mon, baby. Take me back. Look my bubble-blowing avatar in the face and say you really want to leave me.



Everyone needs to go out and jump or rent Aqua Teen Hunger Force (seasons 1 & 2) or do something. Lighten up. DO IT!

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[DShiznit 0]

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You've missed the point entirely. You'll get proper instruction from Jason, despite the fact that he's being a total dork to anyone that put their time and money into getting a BMI rating. The point is that you don't need to be AGAINST BMIs just because you don't have immediate access to one.

A BMI should be your first choice. No BMI? Look for an experienced wingsuit pilot.

I don't think I missed the point at all. You have one person who is an experienced WS pilot wanting to help the Texas community, that's who I'm going for. He doesn't stand against anything, except those with the knowledge that want the bankroll to go with it.

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No wingsuit pilots? Buy the suit and read the manual (like I did). I wrote in the December 2003 issue of Parachutist, and I'm re-iterating it here.

Good for you. You seem to be very good at blowing your own horn, or yourself for that matter. Keep it up. Banning someone for posting their willingness to help? That's productive. Just because you don't like his messages doesn't make him a reckless person. PERIOD.

I stand behind those that don't care about the almighty dollar with the purpose to promote flight, which is OBVIOUS that is what Jason/Voodew is doing. For Christ's sake, he is spending his own money on buying eval suits.

Again, I still think you are a jackass due to this thread alone. I suppose I'll be banned for voicing my opinion as well. There was NO CAUSE, I repeat for the slow one.... NO CAUSE to ban Voodew for posting his willingess to help those with instruction.

Get over yourself.

[ManBird 0]

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I stand behind those that don't care about the almighty dollar with the purpose to promote flight

So you DO support BMIs. Right on. Get what I'm saying?

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NO CAUSE to ban Voodew for posting his willingess to help those with instruction.

He was banned for pissing me off, and for my own entertainment. I mean, you're making stuff up. The guy was never banned. We were hanging out and I left him on barbecue duty. There are at least 30 more patties to address. It will be OK. And there will be brugers for all.

Edit: Yes, "brugers"

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[DShiznit 0]

Whatever.. I still think you are all caught up in your BMI clique....

I'm making stuff up? Like I said, I just call it as I see it, bud.

[Deuce 1]

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voodew1
Date Sent:
Oct 26, 2004, 6:01 PM
maybe someday I will be as great as you but til then I will count my blessing that will never have my nose so far up a BMI's ass wishing that I could be him-

Get the fuck over yourself
AFFI(USPA)/Wingsuit Instructor self proclaimed
If nothing ever changed the T10 would still be popular - change can be real good

Yeah, whatever.

Good luck, dude. I was done with you, but the PM insult was a bit much.

Have some fun with the wingsuit flying. I do. I'm not a BMI either. But it doesn't make me feel small, and it doesn't keep me from teaching.

Cheer up. It's a beautiful world. And lots of folks want to fly horizontally. Across the beautiful blue sky, streaking across the edges of the clouds.

This will be the last time I respond publically to you, Voodew. You are now (at least for now) off my radar. Wingsuit flight is a beautiful thing. I have shared my knowledge and my suit with many fliers. I don't have a BMI and don't need one or the need to berate one to encourage people into the sport.

Lots of people who have flown GTi's have flown my suit. Including the rather famous MadJohn.

I love wingsuit flying. I only got involved in this thread because of the hostility you seem to express toward the official BMCI program.

I very much really could not give a shit.

Unlike you, I have flown with the greatest in the sport, in just about every discipline. I have nothing to prove.

You can prove your rebel wingsuit instructor program. Good for you.

You, however, are begging for validation.

I, on the other hand, have been validated in several disciplines. That seems for whatever reason, be it luck or whatever to piss people off.

I've been lucky to benefit from chance, circumstance, and location to have learned a lot in a short period of time. You're not having had such luck does not entitle you to be bitching at the world for your unfortunate circumstance.

Cheers.

JP

There does not seem to be anything to keep you from being the premier source of information regarding wingsuiting in your part of the world. Other than your lack of jumps and training.

I'm sure your students will understand that.

[txjuju 0]

To all: I received my first wingsuit flight from Voodew, I used Teds suit - voodew took the time to train me up as he would an aff student using a check list and walking and talking thru all aspects of the jump. How do I know that? I am normally on the other side of that AFF first jump student.

Voodew doesn't do well getting his point across as he is somewhat of a hot head after he is confronted in a malicious way but I have talked in depth on the matter and here is my take:

He is not against any form of instruction - he would seriously pay for a BMCI to come down here and teach Ted and him. The point he tries to get across to me is that the only people willing to help are the non instructors - the BMIs seem to just want the "fame and fortune" I mean beer not fortune as I am also an AFFI and know there is no fortune. I don't have the money for a suit at this time but it has become a passion for him and I borrow Teds when I can. Voodew is just trying to get more people in the air so he has more people to jump with - he is selfish like that - its for his own enjoyment.

I have read thru this entire thread which wore on me as it goes and came to the conclusion Voodew has valid points - the BMIs have valid points but the whole pissing each other off has made it where neither point will ever get out.
Read back through it and this is what you might see:

1 Jason - wants to bring wingsuits to Texas in force
2 He can't do it alone
3 The BMIs can't afford to do it alone - they need to make enough to pay for the trip this could be hard
4 Birdman Inc doesn't have a whole lot of support (instructor wise) in the rest of the USA other than the coasts and 1 in Colorado.
5 Jason has been accused at biting the hand that feeds him----this is not his way he is my friend and I know that is not his way - he is grateful for any help or knowledge
6 Jason gets enraged when provoked

To sum it all up if you all would bury the hatchet and quit picking at each other you just might come up with plan that would further wingsuit in general and make Gari so money so he could further the wingsuit production and maybe lower prices so I can afford one (sorry had to try)

I never post here but I know that Voodew is pissed off that he can't get anything through to anyone else.
I thought I would try to do it for him

Join forces be strong quit the bullshit!

Brian Dee AFFI

[faulknerwn 38]

Wow. Juju is being the straight-talking peacemaker. Who'd have ever thunk? :-)

You are right though. He genuinely does want to spread the love and teach wingsuits, and he genuinely does want to get someone out here to train him how to teach.

He has just been expressing this in a not-always-so-tactful manner online.

People just need to manage to get together and share a beer in person and a lot of online misunderstandings go away. (And give me one of those beers!) So I'm agreeing with Juju - bury the hatchet, make up, and get me a kid-sized demo suit in Texas!

Wen

[GroundZero 0]

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We are not undermining anything. We do not remove or ignore parts from a standard course. Steve if you gave a course and I gave a course I doubt there would be a hell of a lot of difference. The on-line tone has been that some in the establishment don't want anybody who is not rated involved in anyway. Thats the problem, if we flock in a region we are all involved. Was this productive enough or is it time for the probe?

I am working on my official Bird-Man Instructor rating...

Trying to learn as much as possible, is there another venue that has more information? If so, guys, fill me in.

Chris

[VectorBoy 0]

I am working on my official Bird-Man Instructor rating...

Chris

[VectorBoy 0]

There Is Always Time For The Probe.

Say it with me. And I want to hear the capital letters.

[bodypilot1 0]

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If so, guys, fill me in.

Please throw WATER on the fire, not GAS!



Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[VectorBoy 0]

People just need to manage to get together and share a beer in person and a lot of online misunderstandings go away. (And give me one of those beers!) So I'm agreeing with Juju - bury the hatchet, make up, and get me a kid-sized demo suit in Texas!

Wen