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voodew1 0
Thank you you seem to be able to put into words in one post what I am trying to say.
You understand that wingsuits are not mainstream like for instance freeflying/ swooping/ or even RW coaching - and a suit costs $1000 a wind tunnel costs 3,000,000 and never will be mainstream if something isn't done to change it.
Thanks for actually opening your eyes and listening Glen at least I didn't piss off every wingsuit flyer trying to get my point across for nothing - too bad your the rebel flyer and not Jari,Scott,Chuck or some other flyer who can actually do something about the short comings.
Since the point will never be seen by anyone except Glen or myself (and the ones that lurk and pm me) I will sit back and wait - - I am now tired of the bitching-my fingers hurt - I am disappointed in the defensiveness of eveyone involved when I am just trying to change things for the better.
Everyone have a nice week.
P.S. - Dropzone.com is not a tool to try and get a point across - it is very hard to write down what is so easy to say -
The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid
You understand that wingsuits are not mainstream like for instance freeflying/ swooping/ or even RW coaching - and a suit costs $1000 a wind tunnel costs 3,000,000 and never will be mainstream if something isn't done to change it.
Thanks for actually opening your eyes and listening Glen at least I didn't piss off every wingsuit flyer trying to get my point across for nothing - too bad your the rebel flyer and not Jari,Scott,Chuck or some other flyer who can actually do something about the short comings.
Since the point will never be seen by anyone except Glen or myself (and the ones that lurk and pm me) I will sit back and wait - - I am now tired of the bitching-my fingers hurt - I am disappointed in the defensiveness of eveyone involved when I am just trying to change things for the better.
Everyone have a nice week.
P.S. - Dropzone.com is not a tool to try and get a point across - it is very hard to write down what is so easy to say -
The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid
The111 0
QuoteI think that more importantly it points to the fact that the BMI rated program has some geological shortcomings. If you are somewhere its hard or rare for the program instructors to get to you can wait for a BMI and a factory demo suit or you can seek non rated mentorship on someones personal suit .
The world has geographical shortcomings (I am not sure of any geological concerns related to wingsuits
). If you want to act you move to California. If you want to surf you move to a coast where there are waves. Skydiving itself is not geographically indiscriminate. There are people all over this country who can't skydive as conveniently as they'd like. You can't really go complaining to a gear manufacturer or the UPSA about this. Change can be affected slowly, but that doesn't mean that the "deficiency" now is someone's fault. You can't expect anyone to be everywhere at once.
www.WingsuitPhotos.com
Just like it's ridiculous for Alchamy to get $60 a jump to coach freefly, or $100 a person per hour of tunnel time? Just like it's ridiculous for Team Extreme to get $200+ for a 5 jump canopy control course? Just like it's ridiculous for PPP to get $2500 for an RW 4 way camp? Oh yeah, you got it pegged alright.
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Its very hard to compare specialist that have 10,000 jumps in their craft whether it be world domination of freefly or canopy piloting expertise or big way camp organizing. To someone who might have a hundred wingsuit jumps( or lets go full tilt and say 1000 ) and a patch that says they are an instructor.
BTW ask team extreme or alchemy how much of that coaching they do and if its more hassle than not. And many,many more jumpers do not go to the top for canopy or freefly coaching but just to somebody they can afford.
As far as the tunnel goes its a facility with large power consumption a multi person staff and a construction loan that has to be paid. There is absolutly no comparison there. If you think there prices are too high you can build your own tunnel.
In fact someone should build a tunnel on the diagonal for wingsuit jumpers.
You can't really go complaining to a gear manufacturer or the UPSA about this. Change can be affected slowly, but that doesn't mean that the "deficiency" now is someone's fault. You can't expect anyone to be everywhere at once.
You know I've never complained about any gear manufacturer. Even though to some people it seems that I complain about all of the BMIs, I don't. I never have. I understand the costs of attracting their presence, services and demo gear to events small and large. I believe they should be compensated. I don't believe they must train anyone who asks, that is a personal decision. There are just too few BMIs to have the kind of influence in the field that they would like. This is nobody's fault, its just the way it is.
So then you get scenarios like Jason's in Texas and some others regions that I know of. Jason just happens to be verbal about it. The others just press on without being open about what is going on.
In the case of our area there are enough spare suits that rarely get used that somebody will just toss at you if you know who to ask. Even if you remove me and my big fat mouth and one spare classic from the equation, there are ten guys standing behind me who will do it. They don't post and few even lurk this forum as its not the real world of skydiving..... its just not. Most of them are on the dropzone ten times more than I am. Chuck knows this, we discussed it in Rantoul before he crafted the established BMI program. My maybe three days of a month on the dropzone does not constitute a one man crusade against the BMI program . I like Jason am also vocal about the reality in the field in our respective regions.
So what we do ( and a few silent others ) gets the negative attention of some (not all) of the BMIs. I understand it goes against what they know, what they have been taught and more importantly how it works in their region or home DZ.
So if based on the negative comments turned into discussion and then on to heated debate, with respective parties getting into a defensive posture, We can get closer to a better understanding of how the world of wingsuiting is evolving outside of our normal operating circles,.... maybe we can live and let flock.
Maybe even without posts about "rebel mentors" and "greedy BMIs". At least until we discover a real dangerous rebel mentor and/or a totally greedy selfish BMI.
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Just like it's ridiculous for Alchamy to get $60 a jump to coach freefly, or $100 a person per hour of tunnel time? Just like it's ridiculous for Team Extreme to get $200+ for a 5 jump canopy control course? Just like it's ridiculous for PPP to get $2500 for an RW 4 way camp? Oh yeah, you got it pegged alright.
Maybe 10 years from now, when half the people on the DZ are doing WS jumps, and there's competitions, the world champions will be able to elicit that sort of money for coaching jumps. But wingsuiting isn't freeflying. Yet.
QuoteI am not sure of any geological concerns related to wingsuits
How about high speed impact with a very large rock?
So, unless you're in Northern Europe, the southeast US, or Cali, you're pretty much out in the cold in terms of Bird Man love. Oh, well. I guess we'll just keep doing what we're doing. But it sure would be nice to be able to get demos.
Ted
Like a giddy school girl.
Maybe 10 years from now, when half the people on the DZ are doing WS jumps, and there's competitions, the world champions will be able to elicit that sort of money for coaching jumps. But wingsuiting isn't freeflying. Yet.
I bet it will be. I know there will be a team alchemy extreme of wingsuiting in years to come. The guys ( or girls ) are probably in Jr high school right now. One of my jobs is to stay around long enough to see it and maybe go on one of those expensive coach jumps with them. I'll start saving today.
vesatoro 0
QuoteSo, unless you're in Northern Europe, the southeast US, or Cali, you're pretty much out in the cold in terms of Bird Man love. Oh, well. I guess we'll just keep doing what we're doing. But it sure would be nice to be able to get demos.
I would be very pleased to know how you know what the demo and beginner suit situation looks for example here in Finland. As you seem to know it quite well. The thing that we have two BMCI's and bunch of BMI's here doesn't guarantee much, as in this country we have about 700 lisenced skydivers in twenty clubs spread around a the country. In a large US dz they make same amount of jumps in year as we do in the whole country. And people really are not used to pay for coaching. Not a big market then... And of course it would be nice if BM could send a bunch of demos to all small skydiving countries in the world. That's not the reality. But the love is spreading anyway
Vesa
BMCI
"Fear is the path to the Dark side"
(Master Yoda)
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I would be very pleased to know how you know what the demo and beginner suit situation looks for example here in Finland.
My mistake, I didn't realize y'all had things so bad. I guess all the cool Herc boogie videos mislead me. But still, you have BMCIs, and BMIs, so your quite a ways ahead of us. We have two large DZs, and at least 8 medium/small ones, and jump year round. And that's not even counting OK, LA, and AR. Having a BMCI in this part of the world would sure would be nice. And as Tonto pointed out, we're still better off than a lot of other areas.
Ted
Like a giddy school girl.
ManBird 0
If you truly want to advance wingsuit flying and training, then get in the air. Starting flying further and longer. Do some technical flocking. Dial in some tricks and make up some new ones. Find new ways to plan and debrief dives. Do some cool rigging work. Take up more students, learn from their mistakes, and come up with some new training techniques.
Patrick de Gayardon once had a dream of making a wingsuit that would be safe and acceptable for someone with as little as 200 skydives. It was BirdMan that worked hard to make his dream a reality through training standards. For most countries, it's still a little off that mark (400 - 500 jumps). Years after they started this journey, which is still underway, you guys pick up a wingsuit and decide that the best thing for you to do is undermine their efforts. Accept the training the way it is right now, and find ways to improve it. Removing or ignoring what is established and is built upon years of knowledge is hurtful. Keep your mouths closed and your hands off the keyboard unless you have something productive to say.
Please stop or I will hack this site and ban you.
Patrick de Gayardon once had a dream of making a wingsuit that would be safe and acceptable for someone with as little as 200 skydives. It was BirdMan that worked hard to make his dream a reality through training standards. For most countries, it's still a little off that mark (400 - 500 jumps). Years after they started this journey, which is still underway, you guys pick up a wingsuit and decide that the best thing for you to do is undermine their efforts. Accept the training the way it is right now, and find ways to improve it. Removing or ignoring what is established and is built upon years of knowledge is hurtful. Keep your mouths closed and your hands off the keyboard unless you have something productive to say.
Please stop or I will hack this site and ban you.
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"
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voodew1 0
Continue to stay defensive - don't look at what is being said - it will never be productive as long as this attitude is kept by the "instructors"
The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid
The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid
ManBird 0
One down. Don't mess wit me, man. Yes, "wit".
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"
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Just like it's ridiculous for Alchamy to get $60 a jump to coach freefly, or $100 a person per hour of tunnel time? Just like it's ridiculous for Team Extreme to get $200+ for a 5 jump canopy control course? Just like it's ridiculous for PPP to get $2500 for an RW 4 way camp? Oh yeah, you got it pegged alright.
You didn't look hard enough.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
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