Lookie at my new [Broken] toy

[BGill 0]

This past Saturday, at the Wingsuit Weekend held at Skydive Nagambie in Victoria, Australia, I made my first 5 jumps on my brand new Skyflyer3 (just got it that Tuesday). On my 5th jump on the suit (26th wingsuit jump, 9th jump on an S3) I exited the PAC-750XL in the normal position (wings collapsed facing into the wind) and I proceeded to strike the tail of the aircraft. LUCKILY, only the leg wing of my suit struck, and neither the plane nor myself was damaged.

After watching the video from my helmet in slow motion multiple times, myself, along with others have concluded that on exit I went up 2 or 3 feet and then on my descent down struck the wing. Apparently something caused this, and it is unknown whether I somehow jumped up on my exit or whether I opened my wings too early, causing the prop wash to carry me (if that is even possible, I'm unclear of that).

So, I went up on exit, came down and my leg-wing hit the tail of the plane. Now I know I will get critiqued for my exit, but I will say that I was properly trained by a BMI and am well aware that wings should be collapsed on exit until the plane is cleared and you are stable. But apparently on this particular exit I did something wrong. We all make mistakes and I am thankful to God that I wasn't hurt and the plane wasn't damaged.

I even mentioned the closed wings and clearance of the aircraft to a first-time wingsuiter before boarding this specific flight. With that being the case it's ironic that my wingsuit struck the aircraft. I guess I got a little too comfortable with my exits and needed a rude awakening to realize this. Again, I am so incredibly lucky that there was no real damage done. Out of me, the plane and my wingsuit... the wingsuit is the cheapest to fix.

Any positive feedback is appreciated. I've attached some pics of the damage done to my suit, but for full-size pics I've uploaded them here.

Despite the whole incident, I had a great weekend, met some awesome people, had tons of firsts (, it's all been drank, don't worry!), and learned tons. Even got to jump a MTR-2 suit for a couple jumps!

All in all, I learned a valuable lesson, and hopefully others can learn from this as well so it isn't repeated. My new suit is gone, but hopefully I'll be able to work something out with either Birdman or my rigger into getting it repaired so I can get flocking again soon.

[diablopilot 2]

Glad you're ok.

Sorry your suit is damaged.


Unless the pilot was diving the A/C, or you're really good at poping open wings and climbing on exit, I really don't see how you could have hit the tail. It's pretty damn hard. Sometimes seams and stitchlines just fail. I've seen it before.

No markings on the tail at all from your contact? If your legs struck the tail I'd expect not only a dent but you to have been tossed around wildly.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[VectorBoy 0]

Bummer,

At least the tailplane didn't bite you in the goober. Let us know how the repairs go, factory or otherwise.

[mayday1 0]

The plane was straight and level the whole time.

The aircraft (PAC XL-750) does have a very wide low set tail. You can see some blue paint marks on the suit but there isnt so much as a scratch on the iarcraft itself.

We're all just glad noone was hurt.

[BGill 0]

There was 1 other group to leave after mine, so the plane wasn't in a dive. I did get tossed around pretty hard, so I am positive that I struck. I'll upload the video sometime within the next few days.

Since it was only fabric that struck the plane, there weren't any marks left on it. There are marks on the suit where the impact was if you look closely.

[diablopilot 2]

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The aircraft (PAC XL-750) does have a very wide low set tail. You can see some blue paint marks on the suit but there isnt so much as a scratch on the iarcraft itself.

I know. Jumped it. Worked for the one of the owners of company importing it to the US, and advising on design points for a while.

Hitting the tail plane with your legs is quite a feat. Considering to get that kind of lift, you would have to be angled about 35 to 50% head high to the relative wing, causing you more likely to strike your head. Unless of course your torso were to go OVER the tailplane.

Now that would be interesting video.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mayday1 0]

I wish I had a camera on,,, Now THAT would have been good

[Jasmin 0]

For clarification, the leg wing hit the tailplane not his legs/feet. ie He took the hit between his feet/legs.

To put it bluntly, we're lucky both BGill and the plane are completely intact and undamaged. It appears the edge of the leg wing dissipated the impact along the suit tape, leg and wing.

Most of us downunder remember what happened the last two times jumpers hit tails, none of it good. One of these incidents resulted in the tail/a** being ripped off the plane and could've taken out most onboard if it weren't for the pilot, Baz. He fought to keep it steady enough for everyone to get out and then got trapped inside by the door. He finally managed to bail out of it at 500ft.

Tailstrikes often result in serious injury or death, we got very very lucky here.

ps BGill's new nickname, thanks to Mayday1 is Tailplane!!

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[fergs 0]

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For clarification, the leg wing hit the tailplane not his legs/feet. ie He took the hit between his feet/legs.

J-Bird is 100% correct - it was Bobby's leg wing that had the contact with the tail. His Tailplane4 pic clearly shows the impact marks. Bobby's leg wing is white on the front and blue on the back-side, so there is no room for any confusion here.

So picture what happened here. He exited and climbed high instantly, despite his knowlege and practice on all previous W/S jumps regarding tail strike possibility.

He climbed fast and high. This point is very clear from the frame by frame analysis of the video he shot on that jump. He climbed up and out to the left - and his leg wing met with the tail. He was instantly flipped over, simply be the energy caused by his leg wing self distructing. The video show this very clearly.

Another inch or two higher and he'd have actually cleared the tail. But if Bobby had not climbed so high, there is the very real possibility of a disasterous result, caused by head or container impacting the tail.

I know Bobby's primary reason for posting this experience is one of knowlege-sharing, for the benefit of all of us. He'll take any resultant ridicule or criticism in his stride, just so long as we all learn something from his experience. It's now important that we get this news out to all wingsuiters.

His experience has made all of us who were there realise the very real danger at exit time of any side-door aircraft. This is a critical time of any wingsuit flight. We all have to get it right each and every time.

So spread the word. Collapsed wings means all wings, fully collapsed on every exit (apart from a tail gate). Do not spread your wings until you are looking at the underside of the tail from below and behind the aircraft you just exited.

Only Bobby's extreme skill enabled him to climb so far in such a short distance. Any less and we may be discussing a fatality right now, as well as loss of an aircraft.

As an aside, it was indeed a beautiful S-3. I'm sure BirdMan will be able to restore it to it's original beauty.

Blue Skies,

fergbird

[Tonto 1]

Congrats on surviving!

A student recently tore the ass out of a Classic demo suit on landing. The Birdman factory replaced the leg wing for me. Total cost was around $100, excluding shipping. Kim did a great job of helping me out with the repair.

Hope you're back in the sky soon!

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[birddog 0]

Bird man says the S3 is for the the expirenced bird suit jiumper. What do people class as expirienced??. Surely less than 30 birdman jumps cant be classed as an ' expirienced" bird man pilot

Deal with it

[BGill 0]

I specifically said my number of WS jumps to show that I was experienced enough to be flying an S3. By experienced pilot, Birdman is implying that the flyer be able to control the suit because of its twitchiness in the sky and larger wingspan for deployment complications. The first time I flew an S3 was per recommendation of Chuck Blue, Birdman Chief Instructor, on his personal S3, after 15 wingsuit jumps on a GTi. All was fine and I have never had a problem on a wingsuit until this little incident occured. I am sure that I am well-classified to be jumping an S3, but I'll let others who have jumped with me and seen me fly back me up on this one. Please do not try to discredit my abilities.

[leroydb 0]

I also started jumping my SF3 at relativly low numbers also (50-60 jumps), but only jumped the SF3 after Skymonkey1 taking me up on my 1st flight.

It is not so much about the "numbers" as it is about the actual experiance level/ and the pilot comfort level.

Basically Some people are slow learners, some are mid level learners, and others (not me) are pure naturals and can progress quickly

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[LouDiamond 1]

Glad to hear you and the A/C are alright. One of the topics of discussion at WFFC this year I had with a few people, the PAC -750 pilots/crew included, was that the tail of that A/C would be easy for a Birdman to strike. Of course the 750 crew assured me that it was impossible to strike the tail and being that it was so many inches higher than a caravan tail yada yada yada. I would like to see the video first but I think I know how this happened. Couple of questions.
How fast was the A/C going when you exited?
What happened after you regained stability, did you know your tail wing was thrashed?
Any problems with flying the suit in that condition?
What, if any Birdman emergency procedures did you use?

From the looks of the tail wing and where it is damaged it looks like an extensive replacement job. Birdman usually does not do repair work on suits but refers the owner to qualified riggers if the damage is repairable. I am not so sure that your damage is repairable just from the pictures alone but be prepaired for bad news Due to the hurricane, do not expect to get a response from Kim or Erika until things have calmed down a bit as neither of them will be in the office.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[BGill 0]

I'm unsure of how fast the plane was going when we exited. I think the uppers were doing around 60 knots so maybe that helps.

When I hit, at first I thought I had lost my right boootie since I couldn't see my feet. It was only until when I came to undo my leg wing after deployment that I realized my S3 was ruined. (The profanity on the video at that point is priceless.) The funniest part of the whole dive is the fact that I was still able to keep up with the guy in the Classic2 that I was jumping with... pretty much entirely with my arm wings. It was a little wobbley, but like I said I thought I had lost a bootie so I was compensating by putting my legs back and in weird positions until I found something that worked best. I gained stability probably 4 or 5 seconds after I struck the plane.

I had thought about using my LQRS when I first struck, but like I said those first few seconds I just got back on my belly since I had been flipped in every direction, got stable and found that I could fly the suit with minimal problems. I had no problems on deployment or anywhere else on the flight. Almost got close enough on him for a dock with my suit busted.

As for getting it repaired, I'm working things out with Jari and I think I'll be shipping it out to Europe for the repairs. I'm prepared for the worst but hoping for the best. I know the repairs will take a lot of work due to the fact that not only is the wing damaged but also the bootie and the lower half of the right leg right along the seam of the wing.

On another note with the PAC-750XL, if it had been another aircraft with a tail wing higher up, I would have struck higher up on my body than foot level, possibly hitting my back or my head which would probably have been fatal. I'll be getting the video of the exit up soon, but I have an exam I'm supposed to be studying for and a presentation to do, so I'm juggling a few things at the moment. Thanks for the concern

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[The111 0]

Ok, something is confusing me here. I've read all the posts about striking the leg wing and not the legs themselves. For something to hit the wing, but not the legs, wouldn't it have to go between the legs? I'm not too familiar with the S3, but it does looks like the wing extends a tiny bit past the feet when inflated, so I guess in theory that could catch, but based on the look of the tear in tailplane.jpg, something went between the legs. For that to happen, the jumper's body would have to be parallel to the tail of the plane. I.e., the tail would have to be vertical (which it's not), or the jumper would have to be horizontal (which it doesn't seem like he was). Can anyone make any sense of this?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[LouDiamond 1]

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I know the repairs will take a lot of work due to the fact that not only is the wing damaged but also the bootie and the lower half of the right leg right along the seam of the wing.

Without question the whole tail section will have to be replaced which is a major job in of itself. The lower leg/bootie portion is going to require a lot of work and require a lot of fabric since it's pretty much one piece that is stitched into other smaller pieces. Of all the suits, the S3 has the most individual component pieces that need to be sewn together in the proper order.

Good to hear that your flight was uneventful and you managed to hang with the other bird.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[BGill 0]

Once I get the video up this will be a bit clearer, but in the meantime I'll do my best. The spot on the suit that was hit was approximately 2" above the bottom of the wing, and the wing pretty much is flush with the bottom of my feet. In the video, when I strike, I am facing upright looking at the plane, so what must have happened is my right foot was slightly in front of my left, this causing the fabric to be closer to the plane than my foot. When it hit it flung me to my left, up, around, down, inside out, the normal flip-flop feeling you all have had on whatever type of jump you prefer. Point is, it swung me to my left keeping my foot from striking the plane and making me pretty much whip around past the end of the wing. The vertical tear is because after impact the hole expanded, and as can be seen in tailplane2.jpg it did tear horizontally, but only until it came to the seam. Vertically it tore almost the entire way up the wing. Hope that clears things up.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Unless the pilot was diving the A/C, or you're really good at poping open wings and climbing on exit, I really don't see how you could have hit the tail. It's pretty damn hard.

The US importers of the PAC 750 are having this issue already, with the plane not even being there for a month.....

Here's the post.Tail strike on new PAC XL750 at Skydance.

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Sometimes seams and stitchlines just fail.

Right....
This is NO instance of stitchline failer.....
Repairs wont be cheap.


-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Deuce 1]

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Unless the pilot was diving the A/C, or you're really good at poping open wings and climbing on exit, I really don't see how you could have hit the tail. It's pretty damn hard.

The US importers of the PAC 750 are having this issue already, with the plane not even being there for a month.....

Here's the post.Tail strike on new PAC XL750 at Skydance.

Quote

Sometimes seams and stitchlines just fail.

Right....
This is NO instance of stitchline failer.....
Repairs wont be cheap.


-

That post is about a Wing strike, not a tail strike. It can be done pretty easily on a KingAir too, if the jumper launched downward headfirst at the wing from the front of the door.

[mayday1 0]

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I'm unsure of how fast the plane was going when we exited. I think the uppers were doing around 60 knots so maybe that helps.

The standard exit speed of that plane at that DZ is about 90 kts usually. There was bugger all winds that day too...

When you flew next to me I did not notice your suit was damaged, then again, I wasnt exactly looking out for anything of the sort either.

[LouDiamond 1]

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The standard exit speed of that plane at that DZ is about 90 kts usually. There was bugger all winds that day too...

I guess a better way to phrase the question would be "did you get a cut or did the A/C speed up prior to your exit?"

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mayday1 0]

No... The pilot assures us the plane was straight and level on our exit. He is also a highly experienced skydiver with LOTS of world level experience. I took his word that the plane was fine.

It was his pretty blue plane too :)

The video does clearly demonstrate Bobby gaining lift, I have a copy and if Bobby cant put it up, I will see if I can do so on the weekend and I am not jumping this weekend :(

[bodypilot1 0]

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That post is about a Wing strike, not a tail strike.

Thanks for making that more clear.

Be safe.

-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[mayday1 0]

No, its a tail strike, actually a tailplane strike, hence Bobby;s new nickname ;)