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billvon

Ideas for Rantoul

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Agreed, Glen. No amount of experience proved enough to keep some people from flying off to Missouri, so while we might jack the minimums back up to the "recommended" level of 500, I doubt it will make much difference. We are still going to get the occasional lost sheep.

I am 100% down with getting out last/upwind. That said, I very-seriously doubt we are going to get to take it out as far as we would like and we still are going to have to fly straight out and not come all the way back. That puts us all pulling high again, just like we always end up doing at these things, then getting bitched at for it. Listen, I never jump a canopy over 97 square feet, but you can bet your ass I am going to land "in" every single time. Smarter; MUCH smarter, is landing your canopy over next to the swoop pond. Staying upwind in your suit on that side and opening far enough out to allow you to just make that area worked fantastically for me last year. Another great place to fly back to for a safe opening/landing was the crossing runway; the one that had the golf course at the end. I had great luck opening over there and flying back down the runway and ending up next to Camp Colorado.

Oh, and by the way, Bryan Burke was the S&TA, not the "dzo" or "dzm" of the event. Actually, I am not even sure that is accurate because as far as I know, the convention isn't a USPA group member anymore. Still, Bryan is the S&TA.

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Ok, so we've talked in a circle,stated some obvious facts and no one has said how we will avoid other jumpers falling through us that is feasible Until then,The one way we can do this that is feasible is to continue to fly the outermost jump run, exit first, immediately turn right(north) towards Rantoul(if predominate winds are the same as last year) and fly that base leg(90 degrees off of the line of flight) longer than normal before turning left(west) and heading back towards the DZ. Exiting first will ensure that birdmen find themselves with plenty of time to fly off of the line of flight before trail A/C have even begun to drop and will also aid in canopy traffic. Birdmen should find themselves between the last of the canopies from their load(and the parallel jump load) and the beginning canopies of the trail A/C load and still be up wind to make it back to the main area with minimal traffic. I already have the answer to your next question but I have to run, so go ahead and ask.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
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The flight path that seemed to be working extremely well for a large number of the flights I was on was to get out at the start of the runway and to fly along the Taxiway that leads to the large hanger complex. The Hangers and the large concrete pad in front of them are extremely hard to miss from altitude. The only glitch with this was that it had us flying under the Otter at exit and that ment I could'nt point out the flight path on short final to jump run as a last minute double check. Opening way down on the far side of the hangers left as langing areas all that area beside Camp Colorado or the area next to the flags as you drive in.

I did a few chasers wear I followed the person (Bytch :P) towards the Whuffo area. Landing over next to the pond seems to be a viable landing area if we were to take the long upwind last out spot. If we could get permission for the soccer fields as a landing area... that would be perfect, but I think too many people screwed that one for us already last year :(

Like I said last night, one idea that keeps popping into my head is to just have the BM land over next to the Antenna. On the Left most jump run you could spot the landing area and go over the spot/flight path a few more times at altitude pointing things out since you could see the area the whole time. The possibility of landing off is low since its only a mile and the landing area is larger then some DZ's landing areas. The place is large enough that the Chopper and Biplane both use it as thair play areas. The only issue would be making sure neither of those are in the area as we fly towards it.

The solution is not going to be easy, but I had a lot more issues getting out first then I did getting out last.

I do want to say that if BM are getting out first then something needs to be done about the door in the Skyvan. I had way too many jumps last year where I was still zipping up as we were exiting since I had to do the door then zip up. A lot of the time it was because the group exiting right after us had no one that had a clue as to how the door operated. Its really hard to open the door expecially when it was having issues the one day, get zipped back up then line up, do the last second checks, etc all between the yellow and the the green lights. We might need to ground train some of the RW'ers on the door :D
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

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I had forgotten about that, Erk. First out when using a Skyvan can be an incredible hassle (opening and securing the door) if the plane is full of birdies. Still, I only once had to do it myself; all the other times getting a "regular" jumper who was to exit after us to handle the door. It's not really that big a deal for taller birdies, but it was a motherfucker for me to do in a wingsuit. When given a choice of jumpships at the convention for mass flocks, I will always choose the rear exits, so doing whatever it takes to get the door open is worth it to me. I think I split my flights 75% tailgate: 25% Otter last year.

Chuck

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The antenna landing area has its flaws also as flock after flock would be flying over in the areas that the helos and the biplane use, the biplane was prolific. And as you may remember a full altitude weather hold didn't hold it back as long as it could take a jumper to 4500 feet and stay relativily VFR. Both of these craft stayed south near the antenna field and operated at altitudes we would be deploying at.

Your fat taxiway to the big hanger ground reference idea is a good one.

If only you could get the organizers have the aircraft let you out after they turn a right crosswind after jump run is completed. You could go long, stay completely away even at pull time, be screaming back in tail winds covering mucho ground which adds to the whole wingsuit experience. This would require some cordination though.

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As for students, I think we are going to have to keep the higher-jump-number restriction for first-flight students like last year as well; too great a chance for catastrophe if an errant navigator flies back under the other jumpruns.



That's pretty frightening. Just out of curiousity, what is the jump number restriction at Rantoul? I am sure that I am not going to be able to try BM by then as I am estimating that I will have probably only have around 200 jumps or so by that time. Even though I have been wanting to try BM from when I was still in AFF, I am pretty conservative as to being ready to try this new discipline and being able to try it in a less busy environment. Perhaps at the end of this year I can give it a go, but I am worried about finding a suit that fits me. Even those extra small Birdman Pantz were crazy huge on me. :$

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I was taking the Casa when I could to get my Tailgate fix since I was usually the tallest Bird and always at the door I got stuck time after time dealing with the Skyvan door. It was so nice to just let the Casa pilots deal with the door B|

It was a bitch for me to do too since I normally take a wider leg stance to push up on the door with the right arm and lock it with the left since everyone else was already zipped in. The suit about made me fall out once due to the narrow stance and all the weight being all caddywhompass on me trying to hold and reach.

Very good point about the extra plane traffic over the antenna area. The Hanger was a really good place to take a flock out towards, there or the golf course then hook it towards the hanger if we got out super early.

I'm going to run an idea or two past some people and I'll report back...
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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My suggestion at this point is to devise a plan that I can pass on to Bryan.
Ultimately, Larry Hill will make the decisions with recomendations from Bryan regarding the flight patterns and ops at WFFC.
We all need to work together on this. You can shoot me a PM with yur ideas, and I will give them to Bryan.








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Regardless of the final outcome & procedures that will be implemented this year, I want to thank everyone who posted on this thread for sharing their ideas and personal experiences. I'm sure the decision will be look at from all aspects.

Having done a few BM jumps @ Rantoul last year . I know we can all agree....dealing w/ the SkyVan door all zipped up sucks ass. I look forward to "Flocking" w/ you all this year.B|

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Ultimately, Larry Hill will make the decisions with recomendations from Bryan regarding the flight patterns and ops at WFFC.



Cool. A new airboss. ;) The A/C owners and the AirBoss will develop a plan which will be discussed in detail at the pilot's meeting (Thursday Night) before the first flight takes off Friday morning.
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~~~Michael

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Sounds like it needs to be something started at the begining of the convention then. A duty for manifest to hold the breifing as part of check in.



Not a BM flyer (yet) but lurking on the discussion and have notified the WFFC senior staffers of the concern. I've PM'd Chuck to get something to me when a decision is made and and such and I'll make sure it gets in the right hands. The A/C owners need to make sure their staff's know what to check for when a bird(wo)man walks up. Whatever the results, it will most likely be discussed at the pilots meeting before the WFFC starts.
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~~~Michael

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... the one that had the golf course at the end. I had great luck opening over there and flying back down the runway and ending up next to Camp Colorado.

Oh, and by the way, Bryan Burke was the S&TA, not the "dzo" or "dzm" of the event. Actually, I am not even sure that is accurate because as far as I know, the convention isn't a USPA group member anymore. Still, Bryan is the S&TA.



the WFFC was not a USPA dz in 2003, but that changes from year to year. The WFFC has several S&TA's and I'm not sure of the entire list so I can't confirm or deny if Bryan is on the list.
btw, Camp Colorado will have more flags (that don't blend into the grass) along our tent line again for additional wind indicators.
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~~~Michael

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If we could get permission for the soccer fields as a landing area... that would be perfect, but I think too many people screwed that one for us already last year :(



Negatory. This was more of a local political issue than an issue with jumpers.
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~~~Michael

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>exit last. thems the rules.

At Rantoul the rule is exit first, which is why I was bringing it up.



Sorry, that should have read:

Exit last.

What happens to people who don't want to follow the rules?
Thems the rules. Play by the rules or don't play bm at all.

Oops!:$
xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

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One of the reasons, outside of high cost, that I didn't do BM at Rantoul was flightpath.

Why not treat them how CRW is done there? I've yet to see an issue with them. Maybe BM need to land off to be 100% safe in regards to jumpruns?
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
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Issue with that is that to do a CRW pass they take a special jump run with no or minimal freefallers on it. The CRW people tend to all get on the same plane even if they are not all making the same formation. Not to mention that their canopies and large formations are easy to spot from other planes and pilots that are in the area.

It could work, but all the Birdmen would have to go get on their own plane and that severly limits the number of first timers if they have to sit around and wait for 10 or 12 birdmen to all be ready and able to hop on the same plane. Little 2-4 ways would end up spending more time waiting then jumping.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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