"Sugar Glider" Wingsuit

[cpoxon 0]

A friend of mine has told me he is getting a "Sugar Glider" wingsuit after seeing it in action in Norway. He says the wings are bigger than an S3 since they go from wrist to ankle as opposed to in at the hips on the BirdMan suits. He says it is very well made and uses all zips to rig the suit to the container and is very quick to do. There is a cutaway for the arms and it is located under the chin. My friend says it is "slower" than an S3 (but as we know, slower isn't always the best measurement). The bad news is that is isn't widely available yet. It is apparently being produced by "Sean" from South Africa. Anyone know anymore? Any pictures?

[gus 1]

That reminds me of this, a post about Niels Brusgaard jumping a similar sounding suit (wing from wrist to ankle). Any connection?

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[ManBird 0]

Yeah, weird. I never heard of it, but it sounds similar to the one Niels made. I don't know abut a suit like that getting a better fall rate (more the flyer than the suit, anyway), as you need quite a bit of forward speed to get the really good fall rates (sub 40). Interested in learning more, though.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[kimgriffin 0]

I've seen a couple of pics of Shawn Smith from SA in a suit that I believe he made himself. He has a couple of BirdMan suits and I know him (through emailing) from when I used to work at BM.

The picture he sent BM about a half year ago showed him in his own suit, but this may not be the suit that is being spoke of in this post (maybe he's refined the original suit?) Yes, it had giant arm wings, arm to ankle, think really oversized Crossbow. Having somewhere around 350 WS jumps, I would not attempt to fly it. (May be my lack of balls or just common sense?) His account of his first flight on it sounded pretty scary. Lots of stability issues, or lack there of. Just as Neils in his big homemade suit reported on his first flight.

Over a year ago BirdMan had a crazy big-winged prototype (arm to ankle) and Jari was not pleased with its performance or stability.

Sometimes bigger is not always better. But, it's great to see people are out there trying new things. It's going to be interesting to see where WS flying is in another few years.

~Kim Griffin

-Kimberly Griffin

[ManBird 0]

I'd think that too square of surface area would make you fly like a sheet of plywood. Ever seen a jet or plane that flies well without a stabilizer (that isn't computer controlled)? Neither have I. When I flew with Niels in his suit, it actually seemed to be stable, but not much else. It was pretty unresponsive to "steering input" and slid all over the sky, but never looked wobbly at all. The suit had a pretty thick profile, too, and probably induced a lot of drag, killing off a lot of forward speed. Inflated and floated like crazy, though. Looked pretty effortless.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[skreamer 1]

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Anyone know anymore? Any pictures?

Here is a pic of the Sugar Glider on Tom Aiello's site. I met Sean briefly in SA in May, he was testing a suit then. Since there was so much wing fabric that could cover the handle, he had a method of reaching all the way back and then sliding his hand along the bottom of the container until it reached the handle.

Will

[kevin922 0]

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Anyone know anymore? Any pictures?

Here is a pic of the Sugar Glider on Tom Aiello's site. I met Sean briefly in SA in May, he was testing a suit then. Since there was so much wing fabric that could cover the handle, he had a method of reaching all the way back and then sliding his hand along the bottom of the container until it reached the handle.

Will

If i jump my s3 boc i do that sometimes as well but I reach down and work my way back up to the container...

[TomAiello 25]

I think he's made five or six prototypes. The one pictured is not the one with the largest wing area.

As far as larger wings, here are a few thoughts:

1) More wing area will yield a suit which starts flying sooner from a zero airspeed launch. This is increasingly important in modern BASE flights, as people keep trying to outfly closer and closer ledges. Larger wing area (and hence lower wingloading) is virtually the only way to achieve this.

2) Some of Shaun's suits have used stabilizer systems to eliminate wingtip vortices. I suspect that this might be very good idea from an aerodynamic perspective (and combat some of the inefficiencies that have been encountered to date).

3) Wing design is probably more important than wing size in virtually all ways except how soon the suit starts flying.

4) As the wings get larger, you'll need to be stronger to hold the flight position. Eventually, the wings will be large enough that no human could hold them in place.

5) Because the Sugar Glider is more of a wing that the person is inside (as opposed to a suit with wings) it can compensate better for a thicker human component (i.e. fatter pilot), by keeping the wing surfaces further apart (to minimize turbulence caused by the jumbo jumpers body). This might eventually yield a wing surface that had a smooth profile all the way across (i.e. the jumpers body doesn't stick out of the wing profile at all).

6) Larger wings have more "flapping" problems. The mylar stiffeners and cables used as anti-flapping systems on some of the newer Birdman prototypes seem to be geared toward addressing these problems.

I'd love to see a very large winged Sugar Glider type suit with stiffeners and stabilizers. I bet you could achieve S3+ glide rations, but with lower forward speed and slower fall rate--which would be an ideal combination if you wanted to actually land the suit.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ManBird 0]

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5) Because the Sugar Glider is more of a wing that the person is inside (as opposed to a suit with wings) it can compensate better for a thicker human component (i.e. fatter pilot), by keeping the wing surfaces further apart (to minimize turbulence caused by the jumbo jumpers body). This might eventually yield a wing surface that had a smooth profile all the way across (i.e. the jumpers body doesn't stick out of the wing profile at all).

The problem with this is that the overall profile is much fatter, therefore inducing a lot of drag and slowing forward speed. The faster forward speeds contribute to lift. By having lift and forward speed, you get a good glide ratio. I'd imagine that this suit is rather floaty, as was Niels' and the Crossbow, because of this. Floaty as in the fall rate is decent, but the forward speed is slow. However, if the fall rate compensates for the lack of forward speed enough, a good glide ratio may be achieved.

I think part of the reason behind the mylar in the BirdMan prototypes is not only to elminate flapping on the trailing edge and hold shape, but also to allow for a thinner wing. I don't think the turbulence generated by an inconsistent profile has a great deal of effect, as the turbulence is, in all practicality, completely away from the flyer. I'd rather have a thinner profile, albeit inconsistent profile than a flush, but thick profile. However, I definitely see advantages to making the rig flush, but it'd really only need to be from the BOC down to the rear deflector, which the rear deflector does a fairly good job of right now. The current rear deflector could stand to "raise up" more and be wider, but then the flyer would almost definitely need to use the BASE pouch, as the deflector could get in the way.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[TomAiello 25]

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However, I definitely see advantages to making the rig flush, but it'd really only need to be from the BOC down to the rear deflector, which the rear deflector does a fairly good job of right now. The current rear deflector could stand to "raise up" more and be wider, but then the flyer would almost definitely need to use the BASE pouch, as the deflector could get in the way.

What about just making the rig itself taper down at the top and bottom, like the Merlin (or Robert's custom Gargoyle-like rig)?

Would that be better, or worse than a flatter rig with "perfect" deflectors? If the rig was perfectly tapered would you need deflectors at all?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ManBird 0]

That would be better. Some Mirages are kinda like that. If the rig was completely tapered, or zipped in like Niels' suit or the Sugar Glider, it seems to make the overall profile significantly thicker.

One amendment I should make to my post is that each suit serves a different purpose. Niels' suit seemed to be purposed for BASE, as is this one. Starting to fly faster is definitely important in BASE. Even if the glide ratio isn't as high (and it might be or potentially might be), the distance you get in either one is evidently far more than is necessary to get away from an object or outtrack a talus.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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