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# landing a birdman suit.. it IS doable..?

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Actually, if you were prepared you wouldn't kill yourself doing this. A few weeks ago a friend og mine had a pretty nasty 120mph highside on his motorbike, went about 15 feet up in the air (still with forward momentum), and landed at what I and other spectators guessed to be about 90mph forward speed, and 35-40mph forward speed. Because he had decent protective equipment he walked away with a bruised arse, and nothing more.

I'm still not suggesting anyone try this though - post the video if you do :)

Nick

This username sucks, so I'm BBKid now instead. Replies, insults, sexual favours and death threats to be sent there from now on.

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Sorry, I meant 90mph forward speed in one direction, and 35-40 in another, so average 60mph in a kind of diagonal. Don't forget that being thrown off would give you upward-downward speed too, so it wouldn't be like just falling 15 feet.

Anyway, it was only an idea!

Nick

This username sucks, so I'm BBKid now instead. Replies, insults, sexual favours and death threats to be sent there from now on.

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Quote

Sorry, I meant 90mph forward speed in one direction, and 35-40 in another, so average 60mph in a kind of diagonal.

Actually, it doesn't work like that . . .

90^2 = 8100
35^2 = 1225
total = 9325
square root (9325) = 96.56 . . .

So his total velocity would have been maybe in the area of 96.6 mph, but since the impact was at an angle, this would have not been (quite) as drastic as it sounds.

However, in a BirdMan landing I think you're going to see the horizontal speed closer to 120 mph. This may sound like a trivial increase in speed, but I assure you, it is not.

Additionally, in a motorcycle accident the arms and legs are unrestricted. I'm curious as to whether the very restricted position of the BirdMan suit would do a lot more damage. Remember that in this case the person would be intentionally driving himself into the ground chin first. No butt sliding. No rolling.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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> You know that in theory , it is possible to build a
> belly flying formation so large that it will move so slow
> that no one has to pull.

The first time I heard this theory was at the Gulch in 1975.

We were building these kind of dynamic motion things and
Seattle was leaning more towards big, very floaty blots.
(Big was like 20.)

We heard that someone up there had calculated that they
could land a 172 way wedge. We immediately started
scheming about skateboards on our chests and some kind
of nose wheel.

A few beers later in the night someone pointed out that if
we could land a 172 way we should be able to dirt dive
a 300 way and float up to altitude.

It did seem to make sense at the time, but the desert has
that effect on people.

Skr

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So we agree that landing chin first on any surface (ski mountain, matress, whip cream, coconut cream pie, etc.) would be iffy at best. How about water feet first? Jumping off a 50 ft bridge one hits the water with a speed of 42mph. From a 100ft height it is 60mph. People do those heights all the time with no injury. With a minimum vertical speed for the Skyflier 3 of 30mph we are well within known limits. Now, how can we decrease the horizontal speed? Can we possible flare a wingsuit? If not a current one than with slight modifications to the upper portion? This is a very interesting topic and in my opinion worth persuing. I think the technology and funds are available if more people than me think this is a feasable task. how fun it would be!

Larkin

I want to land a birdsuit! I'm here to collect information from everyone with anything to say on the topic before I start designing a suit that IS landable.

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ive think about this a few months a go, and i actually bet with one friend (shunkka) about it, i believe someone will land a wingsuit in 1 year. The idea come to me with 4movies: 1st the guy with a wingsuit about 10m high from a snow mountain, 2nd a guy jumping with skis on his foot, 3rd the world speed record on skis(250kms/h)n and 4th that oldie goldie movie about a guy jumping from Eiffel tower with a special suit but with no chute. Putting the first 3together and you got the idea, the 4th(crazy enought?) and you got your landing in wingsuit. Its easy, so guys... go try it, im only 70jumps ;)
Ber
---------------------------------
"Who Needs Oxygen Anyway?"

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In my limited experience with WS, I have hypothesized this at great length....and here are some of my thoughts on it:

a) it is, and one day WILL be possible to land a WS - question is how!

one possibility is using a summer training ramp for ski jumping...with hundreds of little rolling balls and a ramp at the end. question is...how do you transition from a head first, angled descent to a feet first landing to either run it out...or land in a cushion??

another possibility is to have a pond at the bottom, like the summer aerialists/freestylists use to train...so every descent involves getting wet (see swooping/chowing events now - happens already)

my only problem with trying to land a WS is that your head is the leading edge. If I could somehow control my arms to the point of getting them in front of me to dive-roll, or even just grab something...it could work. Of course - these hypotheses move you further from the simple dz...plane, runway, windsock, student training gear. This all equals a greater investment by the owner, and causes some to not bother - thus limiting where you can do it.

For the moment - I'm quite happy to land my canopy, but I'm excited by the possibility!!!

Kahurangi e Mahearangi,
Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic

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have you seen those olympic skiiers, the longjump or whatever it is with the big as skiis where they basically fly through the air? they are in a similar position as a wingsuit (head first) and transition just before landing

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with the horizontal speed added to it, you definitely need a huge pair of balls to try it... or is it just a "no brain, No pain" idea I have read that it is Loic's goal... but for the moment you must still work on the suits, the way to fly it and the correct place to do it... His idea for the moment is snow...
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Fumer tue, péter pue
-------------
ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579

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Maybe if we trained a ski jumper and have him try a wingsuit while jumping off a ramp we might see how he would fly and land with the skis... It would be some sort of R&D..

I jump, I live, I love. Ourson #1 Ordre des Ours Polaires Volants

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but he would need a real long landing area... it was planned a few years ago to do steeper and longer landing areas so the guys would fly and fly till nearly no horizontal speed... but it then had been judged too dangerous... I mean, they didn't have a clue about the distance you can cover tracking moreover, the suits they wear really have a good surface.. Gotta ask a friend of mine to lend me one of his suits...
----------
Fumer tue, péter pue
-------------
ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579

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Alright so snow would be a good idea and I like the ski jumper idea; however aim and timing would be pretty tough. And getting any funding whatsoever might be a little sketchy. However, if it is possible to redesign a wingsuit to land in water no aim would be necessary, a computer with RF or IR sensors could help with the flare timing (I am an optical/laser engineer). And most important I'm sure the military would help fund such a balls-to-the-wall venture. It would add a whole new level to air infiltration... and who knows, they might give us a couple crazy marines as test dummies :).

Next step redisign the suit for a controlled water landing. Maybe a carbon fiber exoskeleton? And it there is no way to get the feet first how about wearing a damn helmut/torso protector allowing one to 'dive' into the water without injury. A 90mph dive scares the sh#t out of me... we gotta slow these things down!

Larkin
WAY too enthusiastic for my jumping experience

Larkin

I want to land a birdsuit! I'm here to collect information from everyone with anything to say on the topic before I start designing a suit that IS landable.

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> Maybe if we trained a ski jumper and have him
> try a wingsuit while jumping off a ramp we might
> see how he would fly and land with the skis...
> It would be some sort of R&D..

Some sort indeed :-)

But it's a good idea, after all, watching ski jumpers is
where Loy Brydon got the idea for tracking in the first
place back in the late 50's.

And I have no doubt that someone will land a wingsuit,
and once one person does it others will do it, and before
you know it it will be a whole new branch of skydiving.

And you won't even have to pack!

Revolutionary! :-) :-)

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/turf_surf.html

Skr

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Kevin-

I'm a newbie skydiver, so I'm still probably a couple of years away from really getting into wingsuit jumping (one of the main reasons I got into this sport to begin with), but I just wanted to take the time to say thanks for starting this thread. I've nearly pissed myself at the thought of jumping out of a plane without a chute. I will say this, in my little world, I would be willing to wager that no more than 20 years from now, someone will jump out of a plane wearing nothing but a wingsuit, land on the ground, and be a-okay. I'd love to try it someday :)

Best of luck to ya.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

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Hey no prob kramer... hope to see you in the sky some day!

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that guy on http://www.performancedesigns.com/pdzone/video2.asp?team=loic&category=ff&videoID=60

is only probably 15 feet off the ground if he had strong clothing on like a motobike racer and a smoothe chest he could land like a human bobsled only prob is finding a mountain long enough and steep enough

if 1 could get perfectly horizontal they could have a very strong carbob fibre shell under them that archs up at the front like a bobsled and land on a flat lake

but a lake is low and horizontal and you would only get 1 shot at landing

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I can't sleep anymore! You wingsuit flyers ruined my rest! It's so exciting I just lay awake and dream about all the possibilities. Has anyone been able to do a loop yet? I doubt it with the current gear. What about putting a 'tail' on controlled by either had cables or the feet? Would allow aeleron type manouvers with possibilities for loops, flairs, and most of all controlled landings. Or struts allowing for an extra few square feet of wing? Anyway, I gotta dish out the time and money to actually fly one of these. I'd probably answer most of my own questions. It's so exciting though, a wide open field where there is still so much to be done!

Everything but wingsuit flying seems so mundane now, and I haven't even flown yet! you guys/girls totally enthused.

Larkin

I want to land a birdsuit! I'm here to collect information from everyone with anything to say on the topic before I start designing a suit that IS landable.

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This thread inspired a dream last night, tell me if it's plausible:

There is a huge wind tunnel built on Earth, I'm talking really huge, like 100 yards in diameter even. You jump out of a plane wearing a wingsuit, without a parachute. And when you get close to Earth, you use the windtunnel as a means of slowing you down before impact. Thus, you can land without a chute.

Is this even remotely possible?

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

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too much free time man !!

Keeping it real 22x7

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Has been done, unintentionally, in France by a BASE jumper.
The ambulance refused to take him to possible, they said there was no point.
His fellow jumpers took him in the back of a van, he did live.

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

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Quote

Has been done, unintentionally, in France by a BASE jumper.
The ambulance refused to take him to possible, they said there was no point.
His fellow jumpers took him in the back of a van, he did live.

I think at some point (maybe i'm wrong) we made the stipulation that landing a birdman suit means being able to walk away from it... not go to the hospital in a van, or be refused by an ambulance :)

I did hear about this unintentional landing, and props goes out to the guy that is one hell of a story.. but landing a wingsuit w/o a rig is a true feat when you can walk away from it.

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Kevin. It's probably just a matter of bidding.

We'd like to see one of the experienced smartie's do it. But eventually, somebody will bail out of a plane in an SF3 or similar on "Real TV" for the money.

Heaven help them.

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RealTV only pays \$800 (for ownership). No royalties. There are a few people whose lives, IMO, are worth 800 bucks, but I think most people would put that value on themselves.

Regarding the the fall rate of the guy on the motorcycle... 35 or 40 MPH is incorrect. Falling fifteen feet doesn't put you at 35 MPH down. It's more like 10 - 15 MPH. While the forward speed is definitely nuts, the reason why your friend can walk away with with no more than road rash (if anything), is because they are not meeting with much resistance. If they had collided with a solid object while moving that fast forwards, they'd be seriously injured or killed. The only resistance with which they are meeting is the air at their high forward speed and the ground at their low fall rate (give or take a bit due to spinning, angle of strike, etc).
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

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i already posted this idea last year... nice try, but you have to now pay me royalties....
Leroy

..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

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Ok, when I sat down and read the whole thread i realized I'd have to work a little harder to come up with an original idea. It dawned on me that some kind of arrestor wire/hook system could theoretically stop you. I'm picturing two towers with a bungee cord between them, the actual jumper trails a hook attached to their feet/foot(?), maybe the hook would be attached with another bungee cord stored in some kind of container. The idea is to hit the arrestor wire with the hook. If the towers were high enough and you missed the wire there might still be time to pull and live to see another day. If anyone thought of this before me, well to hell with you, i'm not paying any damn royalties.
Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

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