Namowal 0 #1 August 31, 2011 Is it worth the extra money to have your AFF jumps recorded on video? I turned it down for my first jump because it cost more and I thought it would be distracting. Now I'm thinking it might be helpful to observe my jumps from that perspective (with the instructor), to catch mistakes and reinforce what I'm doing right. What do you think?My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guineapiggie101 0 #2 August 31, 2011 I think video is a great learning tool, esp if you are a student that has problems passing levels. When I was going through AFF, I was having problems with a lot of my levels (had to repeat AFF 3 ten times ). Despite the expense, I decided to get my jumps videoed. That way, during my debrief, my instructors and I could watch the video and see where I went wrong, and what I needed to fix. Yes, video is not cheap, but it is a great learning tool. It's also fun to look back at your old videos to see how you did in AFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #3 August 31, 2011 At my home dropzone all AFF (or STP) jumps are with video and you get a copy after your debreif. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #5 August 31, 2011 QuoteAt my home dropzone all AFF (or STP) jumps are with video and you get a copy after your debreif. S.M.A.R.T!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antibac 0 #6 August 31, 2011 YES, it is really helpful. I had all my levels recorded on video, and it really helped me see what I was doing wrong, what I was doing good and what I could do better. It's totally worth the money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #7 August 31, 2011 Depends on the cost and type of video. Outside video, with a separate cameraflyer filming the whole dive, will be expensive, and priced towards the idea of a keepsake of your first (etc.) AFF jump. On the other hand, "inside" video, such as taken with a Sony camera or GoPro (edit: yeah, snag alert!) mounted on one of your instructors' helmets, still has a lot of training value and may be provided free for viewing (or copying) depending on the DZ and instructors' equipment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #8 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteAt my home dropzone all AFF (or STP) jumps are with video and you get a copy after your debreif. S.M.A.R.T! Depends on how much Video is. If by having to pay an extra $75 per jump, you end up only doing 1 AFF jump per weekend because you cant afford more, that's not very smart. Yes, video will help. But it's not a necessity. Just like tunnel time: it will help, but not a necessity. If money is no object to you: then go for it.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #9 August 31, 2011 Yes, video is almost always worth it. And as there is an exception to every rule.... Here is my exception: If paying for the video is going to make it so you can't afford a second jump, skip the video and make the extra jump. Video will help you, but only through jumping will you actually learn."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #10 August 31, 2011 yes. Video is always a good, useful tool. If it turns out you had nothing to learn or gain by having had video, hallelujha! If you're having any problems, it's a real quick way to learn what went wrong, especially if it's something too subtle to spot in real time. Look at it this way too; the best of the best seldom jump without it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #11 September 1, 2011 Quoteyes. Video is always a good, useful tool.. Yes, but....IMO... When properly done, video can be a very useful tool to aid learning. However, not just any video is good. Flying AFF video is just that...flying AFF video. This not a tandem jump where head-down "looks cool", taking hands/feet "looks cool", transitions "look cool", video flying skills "look cool", etc.. It's not a time for circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. AFF video should be a straight up learning tool. Right side up, action side on screen, no distractions, no question of placement at student pull time. -head-down exits or flight destroys learning opportunity for exits -full-time close-up facial shots do nothing to show what is going on with the student body position etc. -close-ups distract student particularly at/near pull time -pulling early and not capturing student deployment is a missed learning opportunity -extreme awareness is needed at student pull time and instructor escape. The student just may turn in a way that will put you in an instructors escape path.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Namowal 0 #12 September 1, 2011 Quote Quote yes. Video is always a good, useful tool.. Yes, but....IMO... When properly done, video can be a very useful tool to aid learning. However, not just any video is good. Flying AFF video is just that...flying AFF video. This not a tandem jump where head-down "looks cool", taking hands/feet "looks cool", transitions "look cool", video flying skills "look cool", etc.. It's not a time for circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. AFF video should be a straight up learning tool. Right side up, action side on screen, no distractions, no question of placement at student pull time. -head-down exits or flight destroys learning opportunity for exits -full-time close-up facial shots do nothing to show what is going on with the student body position etc. -close-ups distract student particularly at/near pull time -pulling early and not capturing student deployment is a missed learning opportunity -extreme awareness is needed at student pull time and instructor escape. The student just may turn in a way that will put you in an instructors escape path. I was wondering about that. The video I'd want would be an objective one where I could see what I was actually doing up there. A "look at me!" souvenir zoomed in on my head wouldn't do that.p.s. thanks to everyone who replied.My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Don 0 #13 September 1, 2011 Shame that the old days are gone. When I went thro AFF, all but one were on video FREE! The people back then loved SKYDIVING STUDENTS! Now, sadly it seems to be about the money. Thank you to all that took the time! I am NOT being loud. I'm being enthusiastic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 September 1, 2011 Yeah...you also got VHS. I had an artistic scribe flying with my first jump. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #15 September 1, 2011 Quote Quote Quote yes. Video is always a good, useful tool.. Yes, but....IMO... When properly done, video can be a very useful tool to aid learning. However, not just any video is good. Flying AFF video is just that...flying AFF video. This not a tandem jump where head-down "looks cool", taking hands/feet "looks cool", transitions "look cool", video flying skills "look cool", etc.. It's not a time for circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. AFF video should be a straight up learning tool. Right side up, action side on screen, no distractions, no question of placement at student pull time. -head-down exits or flight destroys learning opportunity for exits -full-time close-up facial shots do nothing to show what is going on with the student body position etc. -close-ups distract student particularly at/near pull time -pulling early and not capturing student deployment is a missed learning opportunity -extreme awareness is needed at student pull time and instructor escape. The student just may turn in a way that will put you in an instructors escape path. I was wondering about that. The video I'd want would be an objective one where I could see what I was actually doing up there. A "look at me!" souvenir zoomed in on my head wouldn't do that.p.s. thanks to everyone who replied. Agreed. Video has been a critical tool making great differences in team and student performance. The "Hi, mom" stuff of the tandems or the ubiquitous camera on every fun jump is not the same thing at all. As an AFFI I used to have a side mount camera that I wore and used on all student jumps. And it was a huge help. (That camera broke and I just don't have a replacement yet). So, used correctly and with the right objectives, it can be a huge benefit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #16 September 3, 2011 QuoteNow I'm thinking it might be helpful to observe my jumps from that perspective (with the instructor), to catch mistakes and reinforce what I'm doing right. What do you think? First off, all the DZs that are advertising 'free' video on student jumps are equipping the instructor with a camera, and they are recording whatever happens on the jump. It is not the angle that includes you and the instructor, and the instructor cannot manuver around to show different angles, it's simply whatever their camera picks up. Using an outside camera flyer adds too much cost to the jumps for the DZ to provide it for free. That said, for free, the instructor based video can be a big assest, and most of the time you can see some useful info on that angle. If you are interested in outside video on every jump, with a dedicated camera flyer fliming the interaction between you and the instructor, check with the DZ for pricing info on 'training' video jumps. The $100 video they sell to tandems and AFF-1 includes documentation of the gear up, the ride to altitude, the freefall, the landing, and an interview. Sometimes that includes a CD of high rez still pics, and it always includes an edited DVD, generally with titles, music and a fancy case. For training purposes, all you need is footage from exit to opening, and ideally the landing. It amounts to about 2 minutes of actual footage, and doesn't require a still camera. It's way less work for the video guy, and should cost way less than the 'first timer' video. Beyond that, you don't need the fancy edit or burned DVD, just bring a thumb drive to the DZ, and they can drop the jumps on there after you see them. A fair price for a 'training' video is in the area of slot + $20, so depending on the price of jumps at your DZ, about $40 - $45 each. You might be able to get a deal for slot + $15 if you find one video guy who agrees to shoot all your jumps, and gives you a quantity discount. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brnnncrzy77 0 #17 September 3, 2011 An instructor on my last jump made a video of my level 2 and the $20 I paid was well worth it. Also he could actually point out what I was doing wrong or right. Kinda wish everyone did that. u werent flying, u were falling with style Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fendor1369 0 #18 September 3, 2011 I can't add anything else. Video is a very helpful tool. I would pay the extra till you are finished. I hand video from jump 1-7 it was a great teaching tool.John - D.S 1313 "I'll jump it, Np. It's all good" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #20 September 5, 2011 QuoteYes, video is almost always worth it. And as there is an exception to every rule.... Here is my exception: If paying for the video is going to make it so you can't afford a second jump, skip the video and make the extra jump. Video will help you, but only through jumping will you actually learn. This. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
docjohn 0 #21 September 7, 2011 Our instructors recommend that students get video. We charge $45 for AFF video (compared to $90 for tandem). That's basically a slot plus $20. No fancy editing, no DVD disk, just dump it to flash drive or post on You Tube. Example here: (usually no music or titles) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXMfmRcuRkA&feature=related Doc http://www.manifestmaster.com/video Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallsLikeABrick 0 #22 September 7, 2011 I tried to get my hands on all of the video I could during AFF, because almost immediately I could see what I was doing wrong (or more rarely, what I was doing right lol). Skydive DeLand only charged me $10 though, so it was a no-brainer. I personally think video is an extremely useful learning tool even after AFF. I have a friend at the dropzone who records our jumps we do together, and it helps with improving my basic flying skills as well (tracking, docking, etc). Also invaluable for your landing techniques, as I have a tendency to flare a little too early. If you want to see some more examples, I have a few of my AFF levels on my YouTube channel. http://www.youtube.com/user/fallslikeabrick?feature=mhee I just wanted to let you know, the back of yo' head is radikulus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charlie5 0 #23 September 7, 2011 Most of my coaches have gopros and record the jumps for free. The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EOCS 0 #24 September 16, 2011 That sucks that they make you pay for it. With GoPros and things that do not require an expendable material to record on there is no reason for that :( Tell them to record for free and debrief like they should for the AFF course fees :P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #25 September 16, 2011 Just the hassle of putting the jumps on -something- for a student is worthy of some payment, in my book. First off, the video equipment itself isn't free. Jumping with it isn't good for camera gear (+ your body) and brings extra risks. You also do not want to know how much trouble (time) it can be to deal with videofiles + students. First off you need to bring a laptop or something to the DZ, that's not free either and you run the risk of it getting damaged or even stolen (). Then, students often do not bring anything to put the files ON. So then you're stuck on giving them a cd (not free) or waiting until later when they do have a usb stick but then you have to go find their particular files again. "Just email me the video" eh, no. Dropbox etc work but then you have to go explain that to the not-technical-savvy students. Again with same, if they have no clue how to play or edit the video (and may even call you during work hours about tips how to edit it using their old Mac or whatever). And then you have the ones who want the video edited or at least playable in a dvd recorder. So, asking for a couple bucks (I ask a packing ticket) for "free" video is not a bad idea, IMO. Bacause it is NOT free in any way shape or form. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
