What kind of canopy for a new jumper?

[peachsouthern 0]

So I'm getting ready to do my last jump on Sunday (AFF) and already thinking of what kind of canopy I should get. Just looking out here for any suggestions of make and style. Thanks

Blue Skies and Keep Smiling

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein

[CrazyIvan 0]

Check your PM

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Hazarrd 1]

I'd recommend a Sabre2 if you have the money. I got a 170 Sabre2 new at 15 jumps (after demoing one at my DZ). It's definitely a real nice canopy. I was also told to look into a Spectre...

.-.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Square ZP , WL under 1.1

[deadbrowncow 0]

A little more info would be nice. How much do you weigh? I personally LOVE my spectre. It gives me as much thrill as I want, but still acts docile enough to be nice and smooth. If you are just finishing up AFF, you might want to concentrate on learning more about jumping, and wait on the canopy.

***"A smart person can act dumb, but a dumb person can't act smart"***

[drenaline 0]

sabre2 if you want 9 cell or a spectre if you want a 7 cell, those are cool canopies, open soft and fly good and as a plus the rise pressure isn't that hard, try them out and make your choice.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[vonSanta 0]

oopd wrong thread :D

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[storm1977 0]

I just got a triathlon and love it so far... A bit snivley, but it is better than hard openings. I hear they are a bit easier to pack than other ZP chutes, but my only other packing experience was on f111's. The triathlon and specter are heard are very similar, and are both excellent for newbies. They still carve great and are fun to fly. look around, talk to your instructors, riggers etc...

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[iamspoild 0]

peach, I'm more newbee than you. I'm just starting out and this Pacific NW weather is beginning to be a drag... BTW, has anyone ever headed to Arizona or someplace sunny to complete AFF? can one even do that? (providing they're current) sorry, got side tracked.

Anywho, A lot of experienced jumpers recommend waiting to complete 50 - 70 jumps before buying a first rig. Makes sense if you factor downsizing costs(if that's part of the plan), container size, etc.

From what I'm gathering, a Spectre and Triathlon are good candidates to demo. Sabre2's have also come up, but their reputation is spooking me a little. A good percentage of people pummeling into the ground under a spinning canopy happen to be sporting Sabre/Sabre2's (that based on what I'm seeing on the USPA incident reports). Could just be a coinkodink since they're so popular and so many people use them. But they also seem to have a reputation for being more sensitive to packing methods and body position during opening than say a Spectre. I obviously haven't demod either (nor am I ready to. This sure is a humbling sport!). Hope I didn't just tick off you Sabre lovers! If I did, well..

[Fast 0]

Quote

peach, I'm more newbee than you. I'm just starting out and this Pacific NW weather is beginning to be a drag... BTW, has anyone ever headed to Arizona or someplace sunny to complete AFF? can one even do that? (providing they're current) sorry, got side tracked.

Anywho, A lot of experienced jumpers recommend waiting to complete 50 - 70 jumps before buying a first rig. Makes sense if you factor downsizing costs(if that's part of the plan), container size, etc.

From what I'm gathering, a Spectre and Triathlon are good candidates to demo. Sabre2's have also come up, but their reputation is spooking me a little. A good percentage of people pummeling into the ground under a spinning canopy happen to be sporting Sabre/Sabre2's (that based on what I'm seeing on the USPA incident reports). Could just be a coinkodink since they're so popular and so many people use them. But they also seem to have a reputation for being more sensitive to packing methods and body position during opening than say a Spectre. I obviously haven't demod either (nor am I ready to. This sure is a humbling sport!). Hope I didn't just tick off you Sabre lovers! If I did, well..

There are people by me that have started AFF late in the season, and despite that fact that my DZ jumps all year, have gone down to Florida in the winter to finish off thier A lic. It gets pretty cold in wisconsin, and I think doing aff in the cold would suck.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Chrisky 0]

Well, i've found quite some threads on problems with any sabres hard openings, and the sabre2 seems really twitchy to body pos during deployment.

I'd also not recommend it to a new jumper as its not a square but a semieliptical, though this recommendation is depending on the wing loading to be used(which i don't know as it's not posted).

Square w/ WL under 1.2, imho better wait a couple of jumps to gain some canopy expertise so you know what you like and then look for demos.
Blue skies!

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[peachsouthern 0]

Sorry about that...Forgot the personal information part

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein

[peachsouthern 0]

I'm not planning on buying right away either...due to lack of funding. Was just trying to get an over idea. Thanks so much for all the input. I really appreciate it. I'm planning on my graduation jump Sunday (weather pending). Guess I'm gonna have to start my sunshine dance cause it's not looking to good. Thanks again

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein

[CrazyIvan 0]

You better start that dance missy...I wanna jump too you know.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

A lot of experienced jumpers recommend waiting to complete 50 - 70 jumps before buying a first rig. Makes sense if you factor downsizing costs(if that's part of the plan), container size, etc.

This does not make sense to me. But what do I know? How much does it cost to rent a rig? My DZ was charging me $25/jump for the rig and another $20 for the lift ticket. Now how much $$$ will your canopy depreciate in the time it takes to do all those rental jumps. Now if you have access to a quality rental rig at lower prices, then sure rent away to your heart's contempt. But when I was just off of student status waiting for my first rig, the rental gear was of extremely poor quality (very ugly old NARO containers, F-111 mains with thousands of jumps on them that flared worth shit, etc, etc, etc). Now the DZ has since upgraded the containers, but the old tired F-111 boats are still in service. Are you really going to become a better canopy pilot flying a canopy which has a poor flare, or are you going to learn from a more modern design which actually works? I don't know?

Quote

From what I'm gathering, a Spectre and Triathlon are good candidates to demo. Sabre2's have also come up, but their reputation is spooking me a little.

Spectres and Triathlons are great canopies for newbies. But wherever you're getting your information about Sabres being dangerous, it's the wrong info. Sabres (especially Sabre2s) are awesome canopies. I have learned so much from my old Sabre2 190 and now my soon to be sold Sabre2 170. If people are hurting themselves under a Sabre it's because they are making mistakes, not the canopy.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[iamspoild 0]

Quote

But wherever you're getting your information about Sabres being dangerous, it's the wrong info. Sabres (especially Sabre2s)

I didn't say they were dangerous. I implied it!
Well, at least you've flown one. Maybe I oughta just shut up. I based my statement on INFORMATION from:
1) The Dropzone gear REVIEWS (click the gear tab above)
2) This forum
3) USPA.ORG - incident reports under safety (And I'm only stating that the word SABRE poped up a lot in regard to spinning canopies. Nothing more).
4) Talking to camera flyer at my local DZ (Ryan?)

(watch, in six months I'll get intrigued by em and end up buying one!)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Well I just went and read some of the new reviews about the Sabre2 and with the exception of one or two people negatively commenting on the less than desireable openings, the canopy was given some good reviews.

I've made 300+ jumps on two different Sabre2s. Does this make me an expert? Hell no ... but the fact remains is that I have made over 300 jumps with this canopy design. I have been slammed very hard once and this was likely due to a rushed pack job where I didn't pay attention to my slider. I have also experience several other less than desirable slammers as well and once again, it was likely due to my packing technique on those jumps. But I have also experienced many many many nice soft openings.

Now another less than desirable aspect of my canopy is it's tendancy to dive (usually to the right) once it's in the process of fully inflating (it snivels on heading, but then usually dives to the right). Now this might be an issue if my hands weren't doing anything during my opening sequence. But my hands are very active searching for my rear risers and I am able to control the dive by steering with the risers. In 300+ jumps on a Sabre2 I have maybe experienced 2-3 line twists and no canopy malfunctions. Why? Likely because I am controlling my openings with my rear risers.

My only complaint about the Sabre2 (and this is an issue for more advance canopy flight) is the relatively quick recover arc. I often come out of my front riser carves a little high (better high than low) because the dam canopy just won't stay in a dive for very long. But to it's credit, it's not designed to be a swoop machine. It's designed to help people like myself learn how to swoop in a relatively safe manner.

Now would I recommend a Sabre2 canopy to someone just off of student status? That's a tough question. I do believe that a Spectre or a Triathlon (I've flown both and owned a Triathlon as my first canopy) are nice pretty safe canopies if the canopy pilot doesn't behave badly. But while the flight characteristics of the 7 cell and 9 cells are different. I do believe that the Sabre2 can be handled by someone with relatively low jump numbers. Sure it's semi-ellitpical, but it's elliptcal features are actually very hard to notice (and let's not forget that a Spectre is also semi-elliptical).

Is the Sabre2 a good canopy? Hell ya!!! Is it the best all around canopy out there? I don't know, but some say it is. I'm not experienced enough and haven't jumped enough different canopy types to know any better. But I do know that there are numerous very experienced jumpers out there who fly Sabre2 canopies. They may not always use them on every jump, but they do use them. Take SkymonkeyOne as an example. He's a PST competitor and wouldn't use one during a swoop comp. But unless I'm mistaken, he uses one regularily when he flies his Birdman suit. Why? Because it's known to have friendly opening characteritics (a much sought after thing for Birdman jumpers). So the diving characteristics of the Sabre2 are very well likely pilot and packing errors, not canopy design problems.

But there's nothing wrong with Spectres and Triathlons (or other similar canopies) as first canopies. Talk to the instructors and experienced jumpers at your DZ and trust their feedback more than you trust what some of us here on DZ.COM have to say. After all, they will have a better understanding of your skill levels than any of us who don't know you ever will.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[iamspoild 0]

Good info Steve. I got in here cause I'm wanting to lean more and get some ideas. I'm obviously developing some opinions.... although, I guess we could consider them somewhat tainted with inexperience. So watch out!
Your suggestion of listening to reccomendations of our JM's very sound.

Thanks for the feedback.

[drenaline 0]

Quote

i've found quite some threads on problems with any sabres hard openings, and the sabre2 seems really twitchy to body pos during deployment.

Sabres do open hard and have an incredible hard front riser pressure. Sabre 2 open better and are nice to fly, dunno much about the body pos during deployment but haven't heard of an incident because of that, so in my opinion I consider it safe at a proper wingload.

Spectre are semieliptical and people recommend it for newbies.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[Fast 0]

The DZ that I jump at uses saber2s for the transition gear between the student ripcord rigs, and the BOC sport rigs. So I don't think they are that out of line for newer jumpers.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[TowerTopper 0]

I started jumping about 7 weeks ago, I was hooked on skydiving before I even made my first jump! After my 8th jump I bought a Javelin BOC rig with a Spectre 210 main, PD Reserve and Cypres for $2000. I now have 48 jumps, by the time I have my 100th jump my rig will be paid for verse renting student gear at $40 (altitude included) per jump. I really love the soft, on heading openings, and the way it snivels. I'll most likely jump this for my next 300-400 jumps and be very happy. I found it a little tricky to pack a ZP at first but kept at it. The main thing is finding some with the right WL for your size, I started with a 288 Manta then went to the 210 Spectre. I'm 6'3" #185 and the 210 Spectre was perfect for me, remember your looking at your "exit weight" when you size something for your self. Also I'm 38 years old, I'm not no spring chicken anymore, I may never down size and be happy with the spectre I have. Blue Skies!