chuckbrown 0 #1 March 10, 2004 Alright, I'm done researching this. I seem to recall reading somewhere (my first mistake) that CRW on demonstration jumps must break off no lower than 1,000 ft., unless you're a DOD-sanctioned team. I've tried to find where this rule is, however, I'm drawing a blank. It's not in FAR 105 or the Advisory Circulars dealing with parachuting. In reading Section 7 of the SIM, there's a specific section on CRW for demos that implies you can take formations below 1,000 ft. Does anybody know if this is an actual regulation? If so, can you give me the citation for where it appears. I'm also posting this on the Mailing List. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CReW 0 #2 March 11, 2004 There is no law specifically on what altitude to break off CRW. The Safe altitude is 2500ft or higher. Some experts will occasionally land a two stack, or bring a side by side or diamond a little lower for a DEMO or for fun. They are breaking a safety rule and better be aware of it. But you know that. Have a great Safety Day everybody. T Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #3 March 11, 2004 The rule of thumb And thats all it is.... Is to break up by 1000' or land it.... I've landed 4stacks with out any trouble... The big worry was pilot chutes getting entangled... Today thats really not a issue..... killer.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #4 March 12, 2004 Below is the response I got from USPA. I guess I was having an acid flashback.Hi Chuck, The following link is from the online SIM. http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/2004SIM/section7.htm#71i The SIM in Section 7 states the following regarding canopy formations: c. canopy formation (1) Canopy maneuvers should be performed by only experienced CRW jumpers. (2) Efforts to build canopy formations should stop no lower than 2,500 feet AGL. (3) It is much more difficult and dangerous to land a canopy stack on target than it is to land canopies separately. d. Radical canopy maneuvers should not be performed below 500 feet, where the jumper has only about 30 seconds to set up for landing. So as long as the 2 stack is built by 2,500 feet it looks like the SIM does not say anything about breaking off at 1,000. Let me know if you have any other questions! Jim Crouch Director of Safety and Training United States Parachute Association 703-836-3495 ext. 314 703-836-2843 fax Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #5 March 12, 2004 Well, I wasn't having a flashback (damn!!!). There is a document called FAA 8700.1 which governs the issuance of waivers & certificates of authorization for airshows, including certain demonstration jumps. I have it in .pdf, if anyone cares. This document permits the FAA to condition a certificate of authorization to require that CRW break off at 1,000 ft. for Level 2 landing areas and 500 ft. for Level 1 landing areas (I won't go into the distinction here, but stadiums are Level 2). This provision isn't a prohibition on taking CRW formations lower, e.g., landing them, but if your jump requires a certificate of authorization, it's probably a smart idea to make sure that the FAA knows what you intend to do beforehand. They can't get you for the demo jump where you landed the stack, but they can refuse to approve your next application. In response to my post above: I want my membership dues back from USPA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #6 March 12, 2004 Quote... it's probably a smart idea to make sure that the FAA knows what you intend to do beforehand. They can't get you for the demo jump where you landed the stack, but they can refuse to approve your next application. um ... err ... well ... uh ... I think it's crap shoot. I've not met a single FAA person who knows what CRW is (not saying there aren't any), and their usual response to things they don't know is "no". If a two stack lands in Yankee stadium and 60,000 spectators cheer wildly, chances are no FAA person watching it is going to rain on that parade. If the same two stack crashs and burns, I think it's all but guaranteed some g-man will be looking to rip someone (pilot/jumper(s)/person who authorized it) a new one. I freely admit this is speculation on my part. I'm not PRO rated and have never done an actual demo, though I've landed out in some interesting places and even received applause for it a couple times. Bob Edited to add: Probably the best thing we can do is take the time to educate (photos/videos/discussion) the folks who authorize these jumps. That'll take some of the mystery out of it and give them a better basis for decision making. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #7 March 12, 2004 Good point. I love doing CRW in front of a crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites