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jf951

playing around with head down

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so i just kinda recently started working on my head down, i can make transitions and remain fairly stable on my head but i drift a pretty substantial amount backwards. ive been told to push my chin back but im still drifting

any other tips on ways to prevent this?

ive been working with the "straddle" position so far
Jump more, Bitch less.

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first off i know my profile isnt filled out

but, im coming up on almost 400 jumps...and i know im no pro or anything but ive spent time on both my belly and my sit. so im not trying to pull this off straight out of AFF

id love to but i cant afford it

thanx for the comments, but any advice?
Jump more, Bitch less.

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Aside from coaching you should probably get a video like Tambor's headdown video or something like that and really watch what movements are necessary. Doing something only with your head really isn't all there is to it. You have to consider your legs, hips, shoulders etc.
Good luck.

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If you can't get to a wind tunnel then you really need to get coaching with video. You are most likely not head down and actually tracking. This can cause a big problem if you happen to track over or under another group. Having an exprienced coach can keep you from tracking in the wrong direction and its always easier to understand what is going on when you have video to review.

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bend the lower half of your legs tword your back, you WILL get forward drive. bring your legs foreward at the hip you WILL drive backwards.

practice this doing solo jumps please!



thank you both of you guys (boewolf included), even if the response is like boewolf said, getting coaching its something constructive in a positive direction. ill take both of those into consideration. i appreciate it
Jump more, Bitch less.

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If you can find any videos of people in the tunnel watch those as well.

Right now I can't afford to get in the tunnel, I'm lucky that one is in my back yard. I'll pop over and watch people fly...it helps me understand some of the flight concepts (like adjusting legs for forward/backward movement)...it's not tunnel or coaching, but in my case where I'm just trying stuff in the air on my own I can see where it helps a little ( I know. Bad habbits and what not[:/])

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Any suggestions posted with out seeing any video of how you are actually flying is going to just be guess work at best. How you describe your attempt at head down flying is not likely reflect how you are actually flying. I have coached people who swore they were not moving forward or backward when in fact they were tracking like crazy.

Learing to fly head down with out coaching or video is going to be very diffucult and take lots of jumps. With out video or someone else to use as a reference its very difficult to know if you are improving or if the changes you are making are effective.

Tunnel is the quickest route

coach with video camera is a distant second best route. It will take longer then tunnel time.

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The biggest problem with trying these things on your own is tracking above or below other groups.

You are better off learning with a coach then trying it by yourself and it will be safer for everyone else in the sky.



Agreed on all points. It's been pointed out and I know try and stay hyper aware of my position along the flight line. I'm also trying these things when I'm last on the load and I give an extended count. Would you say that these precautions are insufficient?

I know it is going to take a lot of time and money to get my nonexistent FF skills to something near proficent, but with a limited budget...ehh. Is the consensus don't even try it without tunnel or a coach?

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Yes I think it's insufficient. A hard track can cover a lot of distance and at the number of jumps you have it's highly unlikely that you are really aware of your position.

Your are better off working on sit flying.

It's my opinion that you gain very very little by working on head down by yourself. It really takes a coach or tunnel time to really know how well you are doing and what you need to correct.


I learned head down in the sky with coaching and then I had to undo a lot of bad habits that I developed once I got in the tunnel.

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You're right. Freeflying is a very difficult discipline and can be very frustrating at times.

I have spent a lot of money and jumps to get to my current level and I still have a long ways to go to reach my goals. But I am enjoying the journey. It feels good when you finally nail a good stable sitfly or the first time you manage to take a dock, even if it isn't perfect.

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practice this doing solo jumps please!



I disagree. He should jump with another jumper qualified to coach him. If he jumps solo, (a) he won't have a point of reference against which to gauge, (b) he risks tracking/sliding into another group, and (c) he won't get constructive feedback.

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I concur with the tunnel comments. I learned head down in the tunnel, and never had a backsliding problem in the sky. I think that ultimately, the tunnel would be the cheapest, safest, and the most efficient way to learn head down. With that being said however, I understand that not everyone has a tunnel available to them. Also...before you can start learning head down in the tunnel, you will need to learn how to backfly and fly head up...and head down takes hours and hours to learn. So, if a tunnel is not available to you, I would recommend getting a coach, or at the least a proficient head down flyer to fly with you as a point of reference. Make sure they have a camera so you can debrief your dive, and figure out what you are doing that's causing you to drift. A good coach is invaluable and totally worth the money. I don't think that it will do you any good being there by yourself. So many people think they are flying down tube when in fact they are backsliding the whole time, and with head down, your point of view is so distorted anyway, that it's really hard to judge whether you are backsliding. If you have a point of reference, you can 1. figure out whether you're backsliding and 2. try to counter the problem.

As far as backsliding goes, I think that it's helpful to imagine your body as sort of a shape of a sail...think of driving with your head. So, if you move your head forward, and sort of push forward your upper unit, you're creating an arch, and will go forward, if you de-arch and tuck your chin back, you'll go backwards. I definitely think it's more than just your head, and more of your entire body working together...but not tucking your chin in would be a good start.

Oh, also, since you already know you're backsliding, I would make sure that when you exit, you turn your body perpendicular to the line of flight to ensure that you don't end up drifting into someone else's airspace.

Also...I'm not sure why people are giving you a hard time about asking a completely legitimate question, but don't let that keep you from asking more questions. If you don't ask questions, how are you ever going to learn? Good luck with your progression.

M

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practice this doing solo jumps please!



No he does not need to! That is very dangerous learning HD! I had a guy "learning" HD exit after my 2 way FF and he deploy 20 ft from me while i was under canopy, he sniveled right past me>:(. If you cant afford a couch then find a good FF'er and ask them to be a base for you. Also seen another guy (exit after another 2 way) deploy 100 ft above they guy i was on that 2 way with. He was also learning HD:S
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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Hey,

Just like to add my 2 pence worth to the debate!

Mate i know how you feel, you have FF1 and see all the "cool" dudes doing head down and want in on the action; just like i did and still do!
This maybe not what you want to hear right now but here goes.
Ok so you have 400 jumps maybe more by now, how many have been freefly as an FF1 licensed skydiver? Again i apologise for not knowing so ill assume at least 200?? How did you get to be FF1? From FS1 then straight to FF with no time spent bedding in your new found skills and learning to fly and building experience?
Ok so where am i going with this? Think of skydiving as a pyramid, at the bottom you have the foundations (belly flying) the absolute basic techniques that we HAVE to master before we can become qualified and move on, this orientation is the fall back when everything goes to rat sh*t EVERYONE will revert to this orientation, so it needs to be of a reasonable standard.

The next floor of our pyramid is "Back flying", this is where we start to crank up the speed and move into the realms of FF. When free flying and travelling at fast speeds back flying will become your recovery position, due to the fact you can ball up and keep the speed on and stay relative to your coach or other jumpers. If you just roll over onto your belly you can go from 160mph to 120mph in a very short time and this is mucho dangerous for all involved and is cold corking. You need to be able to recover to a decent standard on your back and remain in control so you can recover to what ever orientation you were flying. Depending on who you get to coach you will depend on how much you spend backflying, a coach worth his money will take the time to teach you these little life saving lessons; a coach who takes you straight to head up flying should be viewed with suspicion as it will have more to do with money than anything else.

When you can fly on your back then we move onto "head up" flying which is the next step on the pyramid. Dont rush this step like most people, take the time to perfect all the skills that you are taught and dont feel like you need to rush to the summit of the pyramid and learn HD. Can you fly HU with anyone? Can you dock onto someone on anybody part without flying off them all the time every time? Can you carve, side slide, and fly absolutely rock solid no matter what? When the answer is yes and you feel ready then start to learn HD.

Now comes the hard part learning HD!! Be prepared to be frustrated beyond belief, when learning things will go wrong more times than they will go right, but just remember EVERYONE WILL HAVE FELT LIKE THAT! Invest in a good coach from day 1, money spent on one good coached jump is worth 5 solo guessing jumps. Get a coach do a jump, listen to the debrief and then go and practice some solos until you feel proficient and then get another coached jump to see if you've cracked it or need some more pointers this will maximise your money.

Now the important bit, if you skip, miss out or gloss over any of the steps of the pyramid then you will have weak foundations! By that i mean when you really need to be able to back fly, fly HU or HD but you cant because your coach didn't teach you or you didn't think it was cool enough to learn then your pyramid will collapse.

Sorry i cannot tell you how to fix your back sliding problem, i have never seen you jump so i cannot fix something i cant see! It maybe something as simple as moving a leg, a foot or just a tweak of your centre of mass??

MY ADVICE to you is to not rush into things but take your time, it will save you time, money, and heartache. And when you do learn head down it will come easier and swifter due to you understanding how your body effects the wind.
Fly free dude and blue skies.

Andy
Freefly Euphoria.
At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

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