VRW Random "I" and Parachutist Cover

[ederen 0]

Before I get any more emails about this, the VRW/VFS formation that is shown on the cover of Parachutist this month is not correct, but it's a great picture, so that's why it made the cover. If you look closely you can see a bandage on the top skydiver's right hand... he had broken it on a previous jump and so was intentionally taking the wrong grip to bravely continue training through adversity. That's their story, anyway.

This was the same skydiver who repeatedly took the wrong grip during block 11 last year at the US Nationals... which created quite a stir... so maybe he just likes making more work for me.
-Eric

[freeflyimpaired 0]

Hey Eric, thanks for the clarification on that. I'm more curious about the skydiver being in front of the formation. Is it simply right hand on right foot and the location of the docking skydiver isn't going to matter? If so, on the "L" as the jumper backing in would I be able to simply cross my hands in front of me staying in the round configuration and have that point count?

Looking forward to seeing you in October.

Blue ones,
Joe

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."

[ederen 0]

The formations are defined by slots, grips, and orientation. This particular "I" formation is somewhat extended vertically, but slots still matter. Slots are defined as the placement of the jumpers in their quadrants, as viewed from the top down, just as it is in FS.

In the case of the "I", if the judges can tell that the top skydiver is in front of the center head-down skydiver instead of behind them, that team should expect to receive an infringement.

In reference to your crossing-arms "L" question, I thought of a lot of cheats when I was putting this dive pool together, but that's not one I thought of in 2006. As far as the rules go, that appears to be a reasonable cheat, for now, as long as you make it clear on video what you are doing. I didn't want to get into defining skydiver headings or angles because it would remove some of the fun of coming up with new fun cheats... so in VFS, the rules will probably never define those things as part of the pool.

How would you define that point to make people fly it outfacing, rather than cheat it with their arms crossed? The initial reaction would be to just ban arm-crossing, but how do you judge that, and what else does a rule like that screw up? And if it isn't easy to fix arm-crossing with a simple addition to the rules, then that means that "L" should be replaced with some other formation that can be judged within the existing ruleset...

...are you starting to see what I had to go through when putting these rules and formations together?

-Eric

[freeflyimpaired 0]

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..are you starting to see what I had to go through when putting these rules and formations together?

You have definitely done a lot. I wouldn't have any idea where to start with a task like that ahead of me but I'm more than happy to reap the benifits of your hard work.

What else do you have in the bag as far as future formations? What steps would need to be taken to make an addition to the dive pool? How much do you see the dive pool growing over the next few years?

Sorry for the quiz bowl.

Joe

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."

[ederen 0]

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What else do you have in the bag as far as future formations? What steps would need to be taken to make an addition to the dive pool? How much do you see the dive pool growing over the next few years?

That's up to everyone, including you... it's going to be a bit harder to make changes or additions now that the USPA and the IPC have adopted it, which is why I was pushing so hard to add all of the new formations back in 2005 and 2006, before things became "official". Now there are committees in charge, and that means that everything will take 5 to 10 times longer than when it was just one person "in charge". I will probably continue to have an advisory role, but there are plenty of ways to get ideas to the committees other than through me.

The only thing that really jumps out at me as needing to be changed is block 11; open class teams are cheating that to the point where it's a pretty lame block... My suggestion would be to define the Open class block 11 where the head down pair turns a 360 during the inter.

If this "arms crossing" thing on random "L" starts creating judging issues, that may need to be addressed, too.

If the comps start going to more rounds, or more points per round, then blocks and randoms will have to be added to the dive pool. Making sure that all VRW fliers around the world are represented in those additions is going to be quite a process.


-Eric

[ederen 0]

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The formations are defined by slots, grips, and orientation. This particular "I" formation is somewhat extended vertically, but slots still matter. Slots are defined as the placement of the jumpers in their quadrants, as viewed from the top down, just as it is in FS.

In the case of the "I", if the judges can tell that the top skydiver is in front of the center head-down skydiver instead of behind them, that team should expect to receive an infringement.

Well, forget all of that. This issue sparked a major international debate that has been raging for a month. As things would go, the international judging body has finally come to an agreement that, although FS has used their dive pool to define the "intent" of a formation for 30 years (thereby defining slots but allowing cheats), VFS is not subject to those same rules. So the idea of slots as a way of interpreting the dive pool is completely out the window. Don't ask. If I thought I was going to have to define slots in the rules I would have.... it's not defined in FS so why would VFS need it, right?

So for nationals and world cup, where the rules say "build the formation", all the judges are going to be looking for is grips and orientation. You can pick whatever slot you want. Yes, this means that there are now about 10 ways to build some formations. Yes, this is a radical shift from everything people have been using to interpret the dive pool for three years.

I was under the impression that if you give people a picture and say "build the formation", that would be pretty clear, but evidently, it's not.



Here is the original email from Judy Celaya, the chief judge for the US Nationals VFS event:

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The majority of the judging staff for the VFS World Cup was at Maubeuge, so we got together to go over the dive interpretation issue. As it stands for 2008, forget the original intent of the dive design. They have not been clearly defined in writing. This means you may make the formation any way you can, providing the CORRECT grips are there and clearly defined. If you are unhappy with this decision, you need to send your suggested dive pool interpretations to Fiona McEachern ( [email protected] ), Chair of the IPC Competition Committee.

Be sure you read the FS definitions carefully. A mirror image does not mean you can change a right hand on a left foot for a left hand on a left foot.
The mirror image would be right hand-left foot to left hand-right foot. If it is a block, and you mirror the first half of the block, you must carry the mirror to the second half of the block.

Rina and I are travelling through Normandy, and email is spotty. We have
found that McDonalds has free wi-fi, so have taken advantage of it. If you
have further questions, I will answer them as I can. You should also
email Pia Berggren ( [email protected] ), as she is the Chief Judge for
the VFS WC. She may be able to get back to you more quickly than I can.

Let's be safe out there!
Judy & Rina

-Eric

[breadhead 0]

Does this new interpretation of the rules make the Random "I" on the Parachutist cover correct after all?

I wouldn't mind seeing a few examples of what is now allowed that was not allowed before.

[ederen 0]

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Does this new interpretation of the rules make the Random "I" on the Parachutist cover correct after all?

No, the topmost skydiver is gripping with the wrong hand.

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I wouldn't mind seeing a few examples of what is now allowed that was not allowed before.

Me too. You will have to talk to the judges, they are doing the interpretations of the rules.

-Eric

[breadhead 0]

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No, the topmost skydiver is gripping with the wrong hand.

You're right, sorry for that, but assuming it was the correct hand?

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a few examples

So, block 2 can be done in "front"? Instead of stingering from "behind"? It's still the same grips, but it would be like raping the divepool ...

[freefli 2]

Well "I" for one can't wait to see how this all plays out in Eloy. This raging debate has me all bunched up and can't wait to see all of the new cheats this has created. It's going to be total anarchy.
All "I" can hope is that the particular skydiver on the cover has figured out which hand to use. If he is in the worng slot or uses the wrong hand, HOLY SHIT. "I" can't imagine all of the email Eric will be getting, there will be tons.
The judges already have a ton of work to do at this event, there doesn't need to be more work created for non judges because of one silly lazy skydiver. "I" for one find it to be just rude and uncalled for. "I" mean really, why can't he do it like the pretty little figures. A lot of time went into those pretty little figures. "I" think they are cute and should be followed exactly. The automonauts use protractors, and the rest of you should follow suit.
Well we all will see how it goes down soon. "I" can't wait. all faces placed because that makes things OK.