Is Freeflying Dying Off ???

[wngarner 0]

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But even the Advanced Freeflyers aren't stepping up either. They come to an event, have a great time, say they want to come more often and disappear.
My events aren't really geared towards beginners. We have so much talent in the area, but no one prioritzes working on Advanced Skills. They just bitch about not having the opportunity to work on advanced skills, then don't show up when the opportunity is given to them.
To me it seems folks priorities just aren't with Freeflying anymore. Atlease not in my neck of the woods.

I certainly haven't been around forever, and I'm cautious to even call myself a really proficient freeflyer, but I think there is alot of interest in freeflying in our neck of the woods. The problem is that alot of that interest is from people with under 500 or so jumps (and even more interest in the folks recently coming off of student status).

Shortly after I started freeflying our DZ saw a big decline in the level of experience that was coming out to make jumps (maybe if I stop freeflying they'll come back!!). Be it injury, beer, other hobbies or just life in general, we started quickly losing some of the best talent our dz had to offer in terms of freeflying skills.

But over the last 6 months there has been a growing interest, expecially in the newer jumpers. And I attribute this to the fact that the up-and-coming freeflyers started getting more active - got coach ratings, got more involved with student jumpers and really just started advertising the shit out of the discipline. Now, I've seen several weekends where the belly flyers are the ones desperately looking for people to jump with - a search that many of us newer freeflyers did alot of just a year ago.

So no, I don't think the discipline is dying, but I think that there is a fairly large disconnect between those who are capable of putting together bigger or more VRW type jumps and the rest of us who still need 2 and 3 ways to work on skills. And I think that sadly, so many of the more experienced folks in our area aren't answering the call to come out and lend their expertise and knowledge to all of those jumpers begging for help.

Freefly "coaching" is free at our DZ, but those of us doing the "coaching" are still in need of a ton of coaching and honing ourselves...(shit, I don't even have 400 jumps and I'm chasing fledgling sitflyers every weekend - and yes, the big grins when they finally get vertical makes it totally worth it!)

...but what do the people at my experience level do, now that we don't need a ton of one-on-one coaching but DO need more experienced folks to help us get good enough to be on those bigger and more challenging ways? Where do we find that when they never come out anymore?

- ever the spazz

Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart, give yourself to it...

[EXTremeWade 0]

Hey..great points made here, and you are at a DZ where you do get to see a lot of interest with freeflying esp. from the peeps coming of the student status seeing all the fun going on when the freefly guys hit the ground.

However, the main thing that HP was getting at was at the intermediate level to the advanced, there has been a decline in interest. Interest I feel is the big thing, and if I am completely wrong, then I am using that statement with the concept that perception is realty. Harry has tried to get a lot going on. Late call outs, and "no-shows" is what's happening, and it totally disrespectful, and rude to the community and the JJ goals. People with a lot of skills to help Jive Jam be all that it can be, and to spread a better understanding of where the skills are at for today, are being advertised to the intermediate to advanced level here. This is absolutely in no way downing beginners, or saying that "you are not good enough" to fly with Jive Jam people…it was about the Freeflyers having an objective. A mission for once. At least that was the way I felt about it. Where could a guy like me, who is proficient at freeflying, but wants to build bigger dives, with more complex moves, be able to do that with proper mentorship and guidance with safety and how to do it all while learning something even if the dive didn’t go as planned. That’s what Jive Jam is about. Bringing it all back, and frankly, I hold a lot of people who have the skills necessary to do that to blame, who just don’t show; especially when they say they will. A lot of freeflyers at the advanced level like to have it known that they are good freeflyers, and should be proud. But you all don’t show. Wouldn’t you like to be proud of a solid attempt at a state record?

Harry is right in many ways. People have become lazy, lost faith in their own community, or just have gone else where, since they feel, "the grass is greener" wherever that may be, and it usually never is. And to those who don’t show, and its not about the grass is greener, then make it out this weekend, and help out!!

See you all at Raeford, NC for an awesome Memorial Day weekend for Jive Jam 2008.

[wngarner 0]

My point is this - you want lots of intermediate and advanced freeflyers to attend events - then you need to be out mentoring and nurturing the growth of intermediate and advanced freeflyers. If you're only willing to come out when its something big or challenging (and shit, its obvious that many aren't even coming out then), then how in the world do you expect to keep a crowd. People get tired of the sport, people's lives take precedence...

...so if you don't help people move from novice to beginner to intermediate to advanced, then you're going to have to deal with it when all the seasoned folks inevitably stay home and then you don't have anyone "experienced" to jump with. (Or I guess you can move to sebastian, perris or eloy.)

- ever the spazz

Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart, give yourself to it...

[rehmwa 2]

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...so if you don't help people move from novice to beginner to intermediate to advanced, then you're going to have to deal with it when all the seasoned folks inevitably stay home and then you don't have anyone "experienced" to jump with. (Or I guess you can move to sebastian, perris or eloy.)

As I pointed out earlier, this is why many people moved away from advanced RW and moved to... let's call it "beginner" freeflying. Or at least "relaxed or low expectations" freeflying.

Since advanced freeflying (actually to me I'd rather refer to all orientation body flight) has an even LONGER learning curve than advanced RW, is it any surprise to see people just doing "low expecations" jumping in the discipline and giving up on really finding mentors to advance?

Top this off with increasing demands from "coaches" to get paid for mentoring instead of "passing it on" like we used to........

For people wanting to encourage advanced skills in any discipline requires the best to be proactive in bringing people up to speed. But it needs be those people that are "REALLY" wanting to learn. We'll always have those that just want to flock around - they hurt any effort to advance a DZ's overall skill level - but they do help fill the plane.

It's an investment in our own future to help people along. I've done this for a handful of jumpers in RW and these people are now some of the best RW locals in my area. I also practice FF in the hopes to be good enough someday to pass it on in that discipline too. I'm lucky to have talented locals that are also willing to help me learn.

This can be encouraged until it becomes the culture in a DZ. Then you win in so many ways. (high talent, lots of sharing, multi-discipline jumpers, etc)

I still think VRW (competition) is the best vehicle to accomplish those goals in total body flight. It worked for RW, it'll work for VRW.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skymama 35]

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It's an investment in our own future to help people along.

I wholeheartedly agree. When I started freeflying, the coaches in DeLand took me under their wings, so to speak, and gave me "free" advice all the time and video debriefs. I was a single mom, they knew I couldn't afford coaching but as one of them put it, it was a win-win situation; I improved and became a safer freeflier and they had more experienced people to jump with.

I look for newbie freefliers to jump with when I go to the dz and take them out on 2-ways. It's a fun change of pace and the smiles and thank-yous they give you at the end really do make you feel good. Plus, I think it really sharpens my own skills. It's easy to keep up with my friends, but hard to keep up with the newbies sometimes!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[SimonBones 1]

When I'm jumping at my home DZ, I love to organize and give free coaching to novice freeflyers and bring them up to intermediate. My invite has been open and I've made that known. I don't pay to skydive at my home DZ at all. So coming to train with me costs you nothing but your own slot.

At least once a month now I'm driving far to challenge myself. I drove to a DZ 4 hours away this weekend. In two weekends I'll be driving 6 hours to a DZ. Last time it was 2 and a quarter.

When I travel for an event though, I'm stepping away from the safety of my free jumps and would rather do that to advance my own skills. It's no secret that if you want to advance, expect to travel. I give good coaching and training, but I'm not going to drive multiple hours every weekend and pay out of my pocket to bring it to everyone else. If someone wants me to help them, come to my DZ. Then I will hook you up

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[wngarner 0]

I certainly don't blame you for wanting to be more selective when you've traveled that far or are spending that much money - but even when you came down to my dz, you still seemed open to helping and offering suggestions and even two ways - more than many people will do at their own dz. So give yourself more credit - you are definitely one of the ones making it possible for new jumpers ALL OVER to get better....and thats why we love the bones!

- ever the spazz

Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart, give yourself to it...

[EXTremeWade 0]

Yeah..great points made Simmon and Spazz..

Overall, its the nature of things we have to deal with, like as you said Whit, that lives take precedence, and we all at one time will have to face that reality, or already have. I have in many ways too..

This past Jive Jam was awesome at Raeford, so definitely try and make it out to RPC for # 3 June 30th, 2008...plus it the Film Fest boogie is going on at the same time, so the freeflying will be very very abundant for all levels, ALL weekend!!

Wade

[hparrish 0]

Whit,

Your Event "CSS Freefly" is perfect for these "Up and Coming", Freeflyers. Additionally I will be working with some folks (BJ, Matt, etc....), to get them to that next level.

But this Post is intended to address those who are already at the Intermediate / Advanced Levels. There are many in the Area who are at this level who just never commit and rarely show.

I did come in contact with several this weekend, and it was as simple as I had no contact info for them. So I guess Word of Mouth needs to increase, so that our community can get emails out to more folks.

I believe the other issue is lack of self confindence. I think people who are at the Intermediate / Advanced Level may not realize it, or feel rusty. These Folks just need to put that behind them and start forcing themselves to try more challenging skills.

The Truely Advanced need to make a decision. Do they only want to be on World Records or do they want consistant quality freeflying. I think allot of these folks have given up. They should either attend events or start organizing themselves.

The Main point is that doing nothing, makes little to no sense.

[hparrish 0]

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At least once a month now I'm driving far to challenge myself. I drove to a DZ 4 hours away this weekend. In two weekends I'll be driving 6 hours to a DZ. Last time it was 2 and a quarter.

When I travel for an event though, I'm stepping away from the safety of my free jumps and would rather do that to advance my own skills. It's no secret that if you want to advance, expect to travel. I give good coaching and training, but I'm not going to drive multiple hours every weekend and pay out of my pocket to bring it to everyone else. If someone wants me to help them, come to my DZ. Then I will hook you up

Simon,

Point Taken...................I'll see you Chester, since you are so committed. I will be bumping Jive Jam back to the Raeford Film Festivle Dates though.

[beatcreation 0]

Well I can definitely say it hasn't died off at my dz. Cross keys has some awesome free flyer's and I have recently switched to free fly just because all of my friends did and I ran out of people to play with up there. Also it is so much fun so I'm not complaining. Its great I have plenty of people to jump with and when I want some top notch training there is plenty to go around.

[base698 1]

Or there bodies hurt a lot from flying and carrying large members into the tunnel and they've wrecked all their skydiving because they are uncurrent and over think everything.

Maybe when I can carve both directions and switch easily without thinking about it.

[LIEBRICH401 0]

YOUR LACK OF FAITH IN THE DARK SIDE DESTURBES ME. FREAKS RULE THE SKY, YEAHHHHHH

[hparrish 0]

Well perhaps it's just my neck of the woods. I was at SkyFest this past weekend and met Eric Deren and Jeffro in person for the first time. As well as Jason and Brad from SkyVenture Colorado, and my boys Selwyn and Earl from Paraclete. There was some very cool Freeflying going down at SkyFest (Chester).

Eric it was nice to finally meet you. We are so close we should combine our events and get VFS moving along in NC. PM me and I'll get you my contact info. Sorry we didn't hook up for some jumping I had specifically come down to jump with some friends, and never made it over, but you boys were throwing down some impressive jumps for a group that had not really jumped together in the past. And Great 3D video !!!!

Jeffro - Hit me up on PM for my cell. Give me a shout next time you are in town or at Paraclete.

[Jon26 0]

Maybe, in your neck of the woods it is dying off. But it's not in mine. Freeflying is the way forward the way i see it.

[SimonBones 1]

Well freeflying did seem to still be healthy and kicking at the Skyfest in South Carolina! Check out the video:

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=7035

Hope you enjoyses!

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[countzero 7]

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Hope you enjoyses!

very nice!! i hope to be that good someday, thanks for the inspiration!

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[SPAWNmaster 0]

awesome video dude. you sent in that camera to get fixed yet?

[SimonBones 1]

It's fixed. Turns out the power cable went squirrely and casued the battery to shit itself. I ordered a new cable and battery and voila! She works like a charm

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[SPAWNmaster 0]

ahh, glad to hear that man! that was a weird day for you.

in any case, as far as the thread topic is concerned, my perspective is kind of limited.

I have less than 6 months in the sport but have had the opportunity to visit a number of dz's (5+) and have noticed that both freeflying and RW seem to be in abundance as WELL as other disciplines too (with the exception of CRW which I really haven't seen at all tbh).

I feel like ONLINE, dz.com tends to facilitate rumors or over-analysis because of a few people's experiences get blown out of proportion and all of a sudden its an epidemic. Again this is just my opinion as a new jumper.

I also noticed there was plenty of ff going on at skyfest, just as there was plenty of everything else.

Again, this is just my perspective as an up and coming jumper...I don't know what things were like for the freefly community before I started jumping so...

[scootstevens 0]

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YOUR LACK OF FAITH IN THE DARK SIDE DESTURBES ME. FREAKS RULE THE SKY, YEAHHHHHH

I second this, freaks do infact rule the sky. I'm developing a small army of freaks as you read this.

[SimonBones 1]

The question of whether or not freeflying is dying off has nothing to do with the existence of newer jumpers wanting to learn some freeflying skills. It's focusing more on the possible decline in organized advanced freeflying.

My dropzone has plenty of folks who go out and experiment with sitflying, chase each other around in a sit, talk big about dark side this and that, and bash folks who want to work on belly formations for their lack of whatever.

My dropzone (and many neighboring ones) lack heavily in freefly teams, organized events, competitions, etc. For all of you who post this and that about freaks, dark side, and belly bashing answer me this: When was your last state and/or regional freefly competition? Did teams from your dropzone compete in the state and/or regional competition? Where there enough teams so that there was a loser (4+)? Do these teams plan to represent your DZ/state/region at nationals? My guess is that most of you do not have these things going on in your dropzone or possibly state.

When was the last time your dropzone had an event involving multiple levels of freefly organizing? An organizer for novice freeflying, another for intermediate, and another for advanced? Or was your boogie all just bunched together with one freefly organizer who had to cater to all (less challenging) freeflying?

My state has its share of 4 way FS teams who compete in the state and regionally. Does yours? Where are the freeflyers? Why is there a decline in the number of competitors in 3 way freefly at nationals? There are intermediate level competitions there.

Nobody doubts that there is an abundance of jumpers at most dropzones who love to sitfly and chase each other around. But on a bigger scale, it would appear as though freeflying is dying off. How are the freaks ruling the sky when 4 way FS has more organized competitions and more competitors? As much as I love freeflying, I would have to say that in the current state of things as I see it, we do not rule the skies.

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[scootstevens 0]

Down in front, ya manta lovin belly flyer!

[skymama 35]

Do you consider it dying off if we're not competing? I don't have the time or money to dedicate to being on a team, but I do love to freefly when I go to the dz. I organized for my friends to get together last weekend and we had about 6 people on most of the jumps. We had a lot of fun!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[hparrish 0]

I agree with Simon and that's why I started this thread. I don't think that competition is being used as the Basis for Freeflying's decline. Although a lack of active Teams is certainly indicative a decline of intereste in organized Freeflying. I think we are stating that atleast in the NC, SC, and VA region the availability of Advanced Freeflying Events is nill to none.

My Event - Jive Jam was put together to address that void. As well as recent events - Eric Deren's SC State Record at Chester, during Skyfest, and Amy Chemlecki & Nancy Koreen's event at Orange. But in my opinion all three events had somewhat weak turnouts. Albeit the quality of the jumps for those who did make a showing was very good. I think part of the recent turnout issues were simply due to events being scheduled on the same dates.

If the local organizers could team up and combine or work around each others events, I think that just might make turnout to these events better.

If you are an Advanced Freefly organizer in the NC, SC, VA area, please PM me. I'd really like to support other events and have a better turnout for mine, so that VFS, Big Ways, and Advanced Freeflying has a fighting chance in this region.