AlethiaJ 0 #1 July 12, 2006 Hi All! The past few jumps I've made I've tried getting into a head down position, which turns out to be a seemingly easy belly fly or back fly instead. I'm typically RW or back fly, so this is a new area for me. How do you get into this position - and from what position do you start? Is there an exit that is helpful for this position? Should I go with someone and have them hold me head-down? Tips? Pointers? Videos? Meow? :) Cheers! Alethia=============================== : my wings brought me to life : Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #2 July 12, 2006 You might have better luck posting this in the Freefly forum, and you might also want to update your profile to give at least some indication of your jump numbers. You don't mention whether you can or not, but personally i think that if you can't fly feet down, ie sit fly, hold a heading and do basic transitions, you have no business trying to learn to fly on your head. Just my 2 cents. Use it, don't use it... Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meistwer 0 #3 July 12, 2006 Hi dude You haven't got the number of jumps that you have, that's the first thing. You only say that you've got A license which you get after the AFF and in that case you shouldn't think about going head down for a while until you learn sit fly and have good belly skills. Blue ones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigelh 0 #4 July 12, 2006 If you want to learn Head-down, make sure you get head-up sorted first, and to do both of these you're better off getting coaching straight away. Nigel-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Sponored by NZ Aerosports, CYPRES 2, Tonfly & L&B Team Dirty Sanchez #232 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airborne82nd 0 #5 July 21, 2006 wish you guys get off the horse and answer her damn question. poor girl has been in the sport for 4 years i am sure she has the jumps probly doesnt want to update her jumps i know a guy a who has 800 jumps and holds a A lic. please girl these guys are the ones who started head downing at 50 jumps and sit flying like most of us did but they get all high and mighty and ignorently think they are the only ones to do it. give me a break, if you can back fly you can head down back flying is harder for me to leanr the sit flying everrything is all backwards ect... head down is not really hard to learn or hold it is very hard to do head down grips and vrw work that would be very dangerous but practicing with your self solo or getting coached from someone good is fine thing to do. head down isnt some monster due to the speed you spread out you slow down. you have a ditter you call it at 5000 and get belly slow down ect... now how many people have i seen get into a uncontroled flat spin while trying to back fly and even sit fly and i have seen a few aff level 4-6 who some how ended up on there back spinning. so head down is not so dangerous it also has hothing to do with sit fly or back fly going belly and deep liek no lift dives have great speed true head down isnt too hard. i cant tell you much more i am not a coach and i dont knwo how you fly or what would be best for you. i learned head down from a sit and belly ect.. and i know some rw guys who can true head down better cleaner and faster then i can. head down is really dangerous in the tunnel and thats a no brainer, you have to back fly then sit fly and do multi movements before you will ever be allowed to head down in there. one thing you can do is this spread your legs as wide as possible and put your arms to your sides and then bend at the waist forward till you fall in the hole and your leg with will give you drag and you can learn balence from there, some guys do the olav straddle mostly your knees will be slightly bendt torso straight dont look down at the ground look at the horizen and fidn a balence and technique for it. i aint pretty but i can film a group doing it. doing it very well is very hard doing it ok and being safe takes jumps. good luck i call it or others call it going down the tube wooosh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McDuck 0 #6 July 21, 2006 Quotewish you guys get off the horse and answer her damn question. Amen. It's rare that I even visit these threads because I know that someone's good intentions of finding out how to begin THINKING about something they'd like to try turns into a bunch of diatribes on their low jump numbers/experience. You either have the information she wants or you don't, and you'll either share it or you won't. Enough with the "update your profile" and other associated B.S.Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28 "I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #7 July 21, 2006 Firstly, head down is dangerous. Firstly, if you haven't already, make sure you're using a rig with adequate bridle protection. Prematures are more dangerous. Secondly, the only thing you can really practise alone are half-transitions from/to a sit. Don't try and go head down on your own; you will easily lose orientation and, when you think you are head down, you probably are not; instead tracking up/down line of flight (and boy, you can really track a long way in an "almost" head down position), creating potentially dangerous scenarios with other jumpers. The truth of it is, unlike sit flying, it is very difficult to start - both in terms of disorientation and having to be ultra-relaxed in order to start. QuoteI'm typically RW or back fly, so this is a new area for me. Recovery should be a sit, then transition back (half-cartwheel preferred). If you can't do that, learn sit first. Most instructors will recommend that you not only learn a sit, you spend a season on your feet first, before learning HD. QuoteHow do you get into this position - and from what position do you start? Everyone is different, and fine-tuning is especially important. Higher speeds = greater responsiveness to control inputs. The basic position is legs wide apart (don't allow them to relax inwards; speed picks up and with it loss of control, at least at first - and it's difficult to brake!). Legs should be almost fully extended, but relaxed - not locked out. Leg position is straddle - the "daffy position" you may see (with legs fore and aft) is an advanced position and you should avoid it at first. Body should be straight; you need a coach to observe your hips and whether you have a tendency to drive forward or backslide. Fly with legs; need arms for docks etc; these should be relaxed and held out not right in front of you, but not at the sides either. It's much better to get someone to actually show you. Your aim is to turn yourself into a kind of shuttlecock - legs wide allows you to "hang" off the greater air resitance - and it's quite stable (when you get the hang of it, so to speak) QuoteIs there an exit that is helpful for this position? Put your head in the relative wind and adopt the position (relaxed!) QuoteShould I go with someone and have them hold me head-down? Absolutely. Don't try head down for more than a few seconds on your own (see above) Being held HD by someone (once you're competent on your feet - see "corking" later) will help you understand the feel of the wind on your body. QuoteTips? Pointers? Videos? Meow? Don't try to stand on your head before you can stand on your feet. Falling off HD onto your belly/back is very dangerous as you will "cork" (change relative speed with the rest of the group) dramatically, and at high speed. HD typically 180 mph; belly typically 120 - 60mph difference!!! Learn half-cartwheels first. I found these difficult at first; what worked for me was extending just one leg then the other from the sit. Other techniques may work better for you. Seek advice locally. Don't ask on the forums. There's too much stuff that can't be articulated appropriately, nor can advice be tailored (and for HD, it really needs to be tailored) If, like you imply, you can't sit-fly yet, forget HD this season. Get comfortable on your feet (learning sit isn't too hard) then practise until it's second nature. At this point, you can come back to HD. Not before. Richard-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McDuck 0 #8 July 21, 2006 Excellent reply. Thanks Richard. Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28 "I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #9 July 21, 2006 Yeah, it could be risky but just do it. The advise on safety seems good. Have an experienced flyer confirm that the gear is good for freefly. Get out the plane wayyy last, with lots of time from the person who goes out before you. Know altitude throughout the jump. First time head down is FAST and pull time comes quick. That being said. First time I did it was from my belly. So doing it that way is possible. Just dive in, like your lying on your bed (on your stomach) and then slide to the floor into a handstand. Stick the top of your head right into the direction of ground zero and swing the rest up best you can. Speed picks up quick and your spine balances! It takes a while to achieve a working head down position. Unlike flat, relaxing "entirely" is not encouraged. Control and Relaxation are the keywords for flying. They are not opposites here. Freefly positions will institute at least one at all times. It will happen the way you want with the right motivation and mindset. Airtime is a variable but ONLY for currentness. Right off the bat, for head down - legs out, hip and ass muscles are in direct affect. And likewise, with sit, your width is important. Don't be afraid to fly wide. It will take an unusual strength...not a lot, just unusual. Currentness will help with strength. (for practice, hang from a bar and do a split. stick your pelvis out and bend the knees a little and imagine you are head down fighting the wind - keep the spine straight and controlled. in this position you should be feeling your outer ass cheaks tense up) Having said that, with any position, the line of the spinal column controls your immediate position horizontally. Arms and legs are primary for speed control and the good for fine-tuners for moving horizontally. Limbs - dual purpose - fine tuners and speed Spine - one purpose - moves you around <-> that way. Stiffness and limbs close in - speeds up Relaxation and width - slows down. these last two have an irony to them Try meditating this, especially on the way up, and putting into practice. As with anything...muscle memory is key with flying the body through the air. To gain muscle memory it is important to experiment, and experimentation means failing, trying again, then eventual succes. So Alethia, get the guts to just stick your head into the wind and enjoy the speed of it. It is way different (hmmm...and better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airborne82nd 0 #10 July 21, 2006 there ya go girl these two guys gave you some awesome advice!!! i learned a few things. you two articulated your point very very well much respect to the advice and your knowledge. equipment is a huge thing. freefly friendly my son was doing a horney gorlila with an older javalin rig you know the soft container kind that mold around very well. riser protection was great and pin protection awesome. but he had the old style like sheer black like pantyhose boc and no bridle cover flap around to the side to the boc and he had a pvc pilot chute. well you know the story every one was all together smiles when my son notice everyone just bailed out on him and looked at him in horror. next thing he knew he was snatched up. hi pilot chute was dancing behind him for seconds i guess ( i wasnt on that jump ) so the next day he had his rig modified with freefly handle bridle cover boc aand other things and now that rig is tight as hell. i have a 2 year old wings free fly set up so i am good. just a story about equipment, my son wasnt sitflying yet but he went in on the gorilla and his loose rig failed him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pjedei120 0 #11 August 6, 2006 Alethia, I learned to fly head down at 50 jumps with no coach. I just watched videos and got advice and basically taught myself. I got my first spock on a rodeo at 180 jumps and was turning points. I've got about 1000 jumps now and have taught a few people along the way. As everyone said "know thy altitude". That is #1. Other than that when I go to teach someone to freefly I tell them to do several jumps where they are not allowed to be on their belly before 5000. This will teach you to fly in many positions, becuase freeflying is not just sit or head down. Being a good freeflyer means you are never unstable. Learn to be aware while being out of control. When starting to fly on your head I would recomend leaving the plane with the wind to your back upright and doing a lazy half back flip with your legs wide, knees bent, and arms in. Do this for several jumps until you feel you can hold a somewhat verical position. At that point its all about not shooting across the sky. The best way to tell is to jump with someone else, preferebly a coach. Relaxation is the key. Once you learn where vertical is I always recomend running in place after exit while transitioning to your head. This takes your mind off things and lets your body do its thing. You would be suprised how stable and still you are while doing this. As with anyother type of flying I recomend jumping with those worse than you, after you are proficient of course, this will teach you to be a better flyer instead of always jumping with those who make up for your mistakes. Good luck, be safe, and KNOW THY ALTITUDE(don't rely on a ditter)!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ibx 2 #12 August 6, 2006 QuoteSecondly, the only thing you can really practise alone are half-transitions from/to a sit. Don't try and go head down on your own; you will easily lose orientation and, when you think you are head down, you probably are not; instead tracking up/down line of flight (and boy, you can really track a long way in an "almost" head down position), creating potentially dangerous scenarios with other jumpers. Thats just wrong, you can practice flying headdown on your own. The important thing is to not hold it longer that 5 seconds and face 90° from the jump run, then go to your belly or sit whatever you're comfortable with, relax check altitude and heading, then try again. Where is this unsafe people ? You'll feel if you're flying Headdown or not, feel falling into the tube. Once you're comfortable doing that, get someone experienced as a reference. You should definatly learn sitflying first.... And it should be your natural fallback position. You will develop a better feeling for the air with each jump. Which will eventually make learning other flying positions a lot easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pendragon 1 #13 August 7, 2006 ... which is was I said (just didn't spell out the short period of time - I thought it was obvious from saying "half-transitions") You know as well as I that having inexperienced freefliers trying to hold head-down for sustained periods of time without any form of reference is a really bad idea. Don't encourage anyone. Quote The important thing is to not hold it longer that 5 seconds and face 90° from the jump run, then go to your belly or sit whatever you're comfortable with, relax check altitude and heading, then try again. I agree with you, this is safe. QuoteYou should definatly learn sitflying first.... And it should be your natural fallback position. You will develop a better feeling for the air with each jump. Which will eventually make learning other flying positions a lot easier. Again, totally sensible (and discussed previously). Richard-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #14 August 7, 2006 Quote then go to your belly or sit whatever you're comfortable with, if you arent comfortable recovering to a Sit you have no business even attempting headdown.. you'd be learning bad, dangerous habits...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Callie 0 #15 August 10, 2006 Head down certainly doesnt seem like something you just 'get right' straight away... One of the main ways Ive been told to get good at it (if you aint got any tunnels near by) is to jump, jump and jump. Obviously if you got someone good at it to hold you in place thats also an advantage Im nowhere near getting it right yet although the solos are lots of fun and amusing- almost feels like I bend my hips too much and go 'at monarti'... Thats when a transition into a sit becomes a relief...All that aside HD is one of the best skydiving challenges yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Callie 0 #16 August 10, 2006 haha... "at monarti"... I wish, most probably Im zooming forward with my hips bent. Again as I said, a good challenge Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hparrish 0 #17 August 10, 2006 Alethia, Some of the advice on this thread is good and some is crap. I think any decent freeflyer can tell the difference. Find a LOCAL MENTOR at a DZ near you and seek their advice. Dont take advice from self proclaimed experts with 200 jumps, Very few Freeflyers can come close to mastering it in 200 jumps. (No Offense I had 200 jumps at some point too). Ask others if this person is actually a good and safe freeflyer. But even the best Freeflyer can be a lousy coach. I'm not a big proponent of having folks pay for my slot when I do coaching. I think any decent freeflyer should give back to the sport for free. But you may not find this to be the case where you jump. I agree you should work on head up flying first then head down. Sit is a much better recovery than belly or back (corking is bad). You should make sure your rig is freefly friendly. It never hurts to jump with someone that is good and safe to learn how to freefly. Just stick to two ways or solos until you have enough control to not be dangerous to others. Find that Local Mentor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #18 August 10, 2006 QuoteI'm not a big proponent of having folks pay for my slot when I do coaching. I think any decent freeflyer should give back to the sport for free. It's so great that there are still experienced people like you in the sport who are will to give-back for free. After a jump I did with a coach at my dz, I thanked him profusely because he did a video debrief with me and didn't want his slot paid or anything. He said his theory is that if he teaches people better skills, that means there are more people for him to jump with at the dz too. It's win-win for everyone!She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hparrish 0 #19 August 10, 2006 Oooops Sorry didn't answer your original question..... Assuming you can already sitfly fairly well...... You could exit with a coach and have them hold you in place. But they should be giving you minor corrections the whole time, not just holding you in place. I find it easiest to teach head down by having the person, maintian eye contact with me, focus on not arching, keep their face close to mine, relax, and brief them on hand signals before we jump. For the firs few jumps I tell them to let their legs go limp and concentrate only on what their upper body is doing. When they have proper torso and haed position, then we concentrate on the legs. If you don't have anyone to coach you on HD, and assuming you can Sitfly well. You can work on cratwheel transitons. Try 360's first and make sure you can stick the sit again. Then try to cartwheel into a head down position. These should all be SOLO's. Eventually you should be able to cartwheel into a head down and stick it. I do tink the best way to fine tune HD flying is to get a coach / mentor. You may think you can freefly well because you can hold it the whole skydive, but you'd be surprised how much you are actually screaming across the sky. A coach / mentor can get you in the correct body position, so you can feel what it should feel like. They can tell you why you are back sliding, spinning, driving fwd, etc....... Get a LOCAL MENTOR.................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #20 August 10, 2006 QuoteDont take advice from self proclaimed experts with 200 jumps, Very few Freeflyers can come close to mastering it in 200 jumps. (No Offense I had 200 jumps at some point too). Are you reffering to the poster before you? It certainly didn't seem like she was handing out advice or proclaiming to be an expert She posted based on her own experiences of trying HD. Ortherwise yours was great advice. edited to fix spelling Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hparrish 0 #21 August 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteAre you reffering to the poster before you? It certainly didn't seem like she was handing out advice or proclaiming to be an expert She posted based on her own experiences of trying HD. Nope.....But I can see how it could be seen that way. I was referring to that group of guys at a DZ that can't Freefly yet but want a date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dolph 0 #22 August 10, 2006 Quote It's so great that there are still experienced people like you in the sport who are will to give-back for free. How about adding a beer charge, given special conditions? I'm thinking about that. If the other jumper unintentionally tries to kill me on his/her HD attempts/transitions/whathaveyou, he or she will have to buy one beer for each attempt. The offender will also have to hand wash my underwear. I think it's only fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #23 August 10, 2006 QuoteThe offender will also have to hand wash my underwear. I think I'd rather just give you money for a new pair! She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #24 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteAre you reffering to the poster before you? It certainly didn't seem like she was handing out advice or proclaiming to be an expert She posted based on her own experiences of trying HD. Nope.....But I can see how it could be seen that way. I was referring to that group of guys at a DZ that can't Freefly yet but want a date. Sweet as Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #25 August 14, 2006 Quotewish you guys get off the horse and answer her damn question. poor girl has been in the sport for 4 years i am sure she has the jumps probly doesnt probably doesn’t want to update her jumps i know a guy a who has 800 jumps and holds a A lic. please girl these guys are the ones who started head downing at 50 jumps and sit flying like most of us did but they get all high and mighty and ignorently ignorantly think they are the only ones to do it. give me a break, if you can back fly you can head down back flying is harder for me to leanr learn the sit flying everrything everything is all backwards ect... head down is not really hard to learn or hold it is very hard to do head down grips and vrw work that would be very dangerous but practicing with your self solo or getting coached from someone good is fine thing to do. head down isnt isn’t some monster due to the speed you spread out you slow down. you have a ditter dytter you call it at 5000 and get belly slow down ect... now how many people have seen get into a uncontroled uncontrolled flat spin while trying to back fly and even sit fly and i have seen a few aff level 4-6 who some how ended up on there back spinning. so head down is not so dangerous it also has hothing nothing to do with sit fly or back fly going belly and deep liek like no lift dives have great speed true head down isnt isn’t too hard. i cant tell you much more i am not a coach and i dont knwo don’t know how you fly or what would be best for you. i learned head down from a sit and belly ect.. and i know some rw guys who can true head down better cleaner and faster then i can. head down is really dangerous in the tunnel and thats that’s a no brainer brainier, you have to back fly then sit fly and do multi movements before you will ever be allowed to head down in there. one thing you can do is this spread your legs as wide as possible and put your arms to your sides and then bend at the waist forward till you fall in the hole and your leg with will give you drag and you can learn balence balance from there, some guys do the olav straddle mostly your knees will be slightly bendt bent torso straight dont don’t look down at the ground look at the horizen horizon and fidn find a balence balance and technique for it. i aint ain’t pretty but i can film a group doing it. doing it very well is very hard doing it ok and being safe takes jumps. good luck i call it or others call it going down the tube wooosh Like you said, you are not a coach and do not know how she flies. Without knowing what her experience level is it is hard to offer meaningful advice.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
airborne82nd 0 #10 July 21, 2006 there ya go girl these two guys gave you some awesome advice!!! i learned a few things. you two articulated your point very very well much respect to the advice and your knowledge. equipment is a huge thing. freefly friendly my son was doing a horney gorlila with an older javalin rig you know the soft container kind that mold around very well. riser protection was great and pin protection awesome. but he had the old style like sheer black like pantyhose boc and no bridle cover flap around to the side to the boc and he had a pvc pilot chute. well you know the story every one was all together smiles when my son notice everyone just bailed out on him and looked at him in horror. next thing he knew he was snatched up. hi pilot chute was dancing behind him for seconds i guess ( i wasnt on that jump ) so the next day he had his rig modified with freefly handle bridle cover boc aand other things and now that rig is tight as hell. i have a 2 year old wings free fly set up so i am good. just a story about equipment, my son wasnt sitflying yet but he went in on the gorilla and his loose rig failed him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjedei120 0 #11 August 6, 2006 Alethia, I learned to fly head down at 50 jumps with no coach. I just watched videos and got advice and basically taught myself. I got my first spock on a rodeo at 180 jumps and was turning points. I've got about 1000 jumps now and have taught a few people along the way. As everyone said "know thy altitude". That is #1. Other than that when I go to teach someone to freefly I tell them to do several jumps where they are not allowed to be on their belly before 5000. This will teach you to fly in many positions, becuase freeflying is not just sit or head down. Being a good freeflyer means you are never unstable. Learn to be aware while being out of control. When starting to fly on your head I would recomend leaving the plane with the wind to your back upright and doing a lazy half back flip with your legs wide, knees bent, and arms in. Do this for several jumps until you feel you can hold a somewhat verical position. At that point its all about not shooting across the sky. The best way to tell is to jump with someone else, preferebly a coach. Relaxation is the key. Once you learn where vertical is I always recomend running in place after exit while transitioning to your head. This takes your mind off things and lets your body do its thing. You would be suprised how stable and still you are while doing this. As with anyother type of flying I recomend jumping with those worse than you, after you are proficient of course, this will teach you to be a better flyer instead of always jumping with those who make up for your mistakes. Good luck, be safe, and KNOW THY ALTITUDE(don't rely on a ditter)!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #12 August 6, 2006 QuoteSecondly, the only thing you can really practise alone are half-transitions from/to a sit. Don't try and go head down on your own; you will easily lose orientation and, when you think you are head down, you probably are not; instead tracking up/down line of flight (and boy, you can really track a long way in an "almost" head down position), creating potentially dangerous scenarios with other jumpers. Thats just wrong, you can practice flying headdown on your own. The important thing is to not hold it longer that 5 seconds and face 90° from the jump run, then go to your belly or sit whatever you're comfortable with, relax check altitude and heading, then try again. Where is this unsafe people ? You'll feel if you're flying Headdown or not, feel falling into the tube. Once you're comfortable doing that, get someone experienced as a reference. You should definatly learn sitflying first.... And it should be your natural fallback position. You will develop a better feeling for the air with each jump. Which will eventually make learning other flying positions a lot easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #13 August 7, 2006 ... which is was I said (just didn't spell out the short period of time - I thought it was obvious from saying "half-transitions") You know as well as I that having inexperienced freefliers trying to hold head-down for sustained periods of time without any form of reference is a really bad idea. Don't encourage anyone. Quote The important thing is to not hold it longer that 5 seconds and face 90° from the jump run, then go to your belly or sit whatever you're comfortable with, relax check altitude and heading, then try again. I agree with you, this is safe. QuoteYou should definatly learn sitflying first.... And it should be your natural fallback position. You will develop a better feeling for the air with each jump. Which will eventually make learning other flying positions a lot easier. Again, totally sensible (and discussed previously). Richard-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #14 August 7, 2006 Quote then go to your belly or sit whatever you're comfortable with, if you arent comfortable recovering to a Sit you have no business even attempting headdown.. you'd be learning bad, dangerous habits...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Callie 0 #15 August 10, 2006 Head down certainly doesnt seem like something you just 'get right' straight away... One of the main ways Ive been told to get good at it (if you aint got any tunnels near by) is to jump, jump and jump. Obviously if you got someone good at it to hold you in place thats also an advantage Im nowhere near getting it right yet although the solos are lots of fun and amusing- almost feels like I bend my hips too much and go 'at monarti'... Thats when a transition into a sit becomes a relief...All that aside HD is one of the best skydiving challenges yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Callie 0 #16 August 10, 2006 haha... "at monarti"... I wish, most probably Im zooming forward with my hips bent. Again as I said, a good challenge Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #17 August 10, 2006 Alethia, Some of the advice on this thread is good and some is crap. I think any decent freeflyer can tell the difference. Find a LOCAL MENTOR at a DZ near you and seek their advice. Dont take advice from self proclaimed experts with 200 jumps, Very few Freeflyers can come close to mastering it in 200 jumps. (No Offense I had 200 jumps at some point too). Ask others if this person is actually a good and safe freeflyer. But even the best Freeflyer can be a lousy coach. I'm not a big proponent of having folks pay for my slot when I do coaching. I think any decent freeflyer should give back to the sport for free. But you may not find this to be the case where you jump. I agree you should work on head up flying first then head down. Sit is a much better recovery than belly or back (corking is bad). You should make sure your rig is freefly friendly. It never hurts to jump with someone that is good and safe to learn how to freefly. Just stick to two ways or solos until you have enough control to not be dangerous to others. Find that Local Mentor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #18 August 10, 2006 QuoteI'm not a big proponent of having folks pay for my slot when I do coaching. I think any decent freeflyer should give back to the sport for free. It's so great that there are still experienced people like you in the sport who are will to give-back for free. After a jump I did with a coach at my dz, I thanked him profusely because he did a video debrief with me and didn't want his slot paid or anything. He said his theory is that if he teaches people better skills, that means there are more people for him to jump with at the dz too. It's win-win for everyone!She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #19 August 10, 2006 Oooops Sorry didn't answer your original question..... Assuming you can already sitfly fairly well...... You could exit with a coach and have them hold you in place. But they should be giving you minor corrections the whole time, not just holding you in place. I find it easiest to teach head down by having the person, maintian eye contact with me, focus on not arching, keep their face close to mine, relax, and brief them on hand signals before we jump. For the firs few jumps I tell them to let their legs go limp and concentrate only on what their upper body is doing. When they have proper torso and haed position, then we concentrate on the legs. If you don't have anyone to coach you on HD, and assuming you can Sitfly well. You can work on cratwheel transitons. Try 360's first and make sure you can stick the sit again. Then try to cartwheel into a head down position. These should all be SOLO's. Eventually you should be able to cartwheel into a head down and stick it. I do tink the best way to fine tune HD flying is to get a coach / mentor. You may think you can freefly well because you can hold it the whole skydive, but you'd be surprised how much you are actually screaming across the sky. A coach / mentor can get you in the correct body position, so you can feel what it should feel like. They can tell you why you are back sliding, spinning, driving fwd, etc....... Get a LOCAL MENTOR.................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #20 August 10, 2006 QuoteDont take advice from self proclaimed experts with 200 jumps, Very few Freeflyers can come close to mastering it in 200 jumps. (No Offense I had 200 jumps at some point too). Are you reffering to the poster before you? It certainly didn't seem like she was handing out advice or proclaiming to be an expert She posted based on her own experiences of trying HD. Ortherwise yours was great advice. edited to fix spelling Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #21 August 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteAre you reffering to the poster before you? It certainly didn't seem like she was handing out advice or proclaiming to be an expert She posted based on her own experiences of trying HD. Nope.....But I can see how it could be seen that way. I was referring to that group of guys at a DZ that can't Freefly yet but want a date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dolph 0 #22 August 10, 2006 Quote It's so great that there are still experienced people like you in the sport who are will to give-back for free. How about adding a beer charge, given special conditions? I'm thinking about that. If the other jumper unintentionally tries to kill me on his/her HD attempts/transitions/whathaveyou, he or she will have to buy one beer for each attempt. The offender will also have to hand wash my underwear. I think it's only fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #23 August 10, 2006 QuoteThe offender will also have to hand wash my underwear. I think I'd rather just give you money for a new pair! She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #24 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteAre you reffering to the poster before you? It certainly didn't seem like she was handing out advice or proclaiming to be an expert She posted based on her own experiences of trying HD. Nope.....But I can see how it could be seen that way. I was referring to that group of guys at a DZ that can't Freefly yet but want a date. Sweet as Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #25 August 14, 2006 Quotewish you guys get off the horse and answer her damn question. poor girl has been in the sport for 4 years i am sure she has the jumps probly doesnt probably doesn’t want to update her jumps i know a guy a who has 800 jumps and holds a A lic. please girl these guys are the ones who started head downing at 50 jumps and sit flying like most of us did but they get all high and mighty and ignorently ignorantly think they are the only ones to do it. give me a break, if you can back fly you can head down back flying is harder for me to leanr learn the sit flying everrything everything is all backwards ect... head down is not really hard to learn or hold it is very hard to do head down grips and vrw work that would be very dangerous but practicing with your self solo or getting coached from someone good is fine thing to do. head down isnt isn’t some monster due to the speed you spread out you slow down. you have a ditter dytter you call it at 5000 and get belly slow down ect... now how many people have seen get into a uncontroled uncontrolled flat spin while trying to back fly and even sit fly and i have seen a few aff level 4-6 who some how ended up on there back spinning. so head down is not so dangerous it also has hothing nothing to do with sit fly or back fly going belly and deep liek like no lift dives have great speed true head down isnt isn’t too hard. i cant tell you much more i am not a coach and i dont knwo don’t know how you fly or what would be best for you. i learned head down from a sit and belly ect.. and i know some rw guys who can true head down better cleaner and faster then i can. head down is really dangerous in the tunnel and thats that’s a no brainer brainier, you have to back fly then sit fly and do multi movements before you will ever be allowed to head down in there. one thing you can do is this spread your legs as wide as possible and put your arms to your sides and then bend at the waist forward till you fall in the hole and your leg with will give you drag and you can learn balence balance from there, some guys do the olav straddle mostly your knees will be slightly bendt bent torso straight dont don’t look down at the ground look at the horizen horizon and fidn find a balence balance and technique for it. i aint ain’t pretty but i can film a group doing it. doing it very well is very hard doing it ok and being safe takes jumps. good luck i call it or others call it going down the tube wooosh Like you said, you are not a coach and do not know how she flies. Without knowing what her experience level is it is hard to offer meaningful advice.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Dolph 0 #22 August 10, 2006 Quote It's so great that there are still experienced people like you in the sport who are will to give-back for free. How about adding a beer charge, given special conditions? I'm thinking about that. If the other jumper unintentionally tries to kill me on his/her HD attempts/transitions/whathaveyou, he or she will have to buy one beer for each attempt. The offender will also have to hand wash my underwear. I think it's only fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #23 August 10, 2006 QuoteThe offender will also have to hand wash my underwear. I think I'd rather just give you money for a new pair! She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #24 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteAre you reffering to the poster before you? It certainly didn't seem like she was handing out advice or proclaiming to be an expert She posted based on her own experiences of trying HD. Nope.....But I can see how it could be seen that way. I was referring to that group of guys at a DZ that can't Freefly yet but want a date. Sweet as Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #25 August 14, 2006 Quotewish you guys get off the horse and answer her damn question. poor girl has been in the sport for 4 years i am sure she has the jumps probly doesnt probably doesn’t want to update her jumps i know a guy a who has 800 jumps and holds a A lic. please girl these guys are the ones who started head downing at 50 jumps and sit flying like most of us did but they get all high and mighty and ignorently ignorantly think they are the only ones to do it. give me a break, if you can back fly you can head down back flying is harder for me to leanr learn the sit flying everrything everything is all backwards ect... head down is not really hard to learn or hold it is very hard to do head down grips and vrw work that would be very dangerous but practicing with your self solo or getting coached from someone good is fine thing to do. head down isnt isn’t some monster due to the speed you spread out you slow down. you have a ditter dytter you call it at 5000 and get belly slow down ect... now how many people have seen get into a uncontroled uncontrolled flat spin while trying to back fly and even sit fly and i have seen a few aff level 4-6 who some how ended up on there back spinning. so head down is not so dangerous it also has hothing nothing to do with sit fly or back fly going belly and deep liek like no lift dives have great speed true head down isnt isn’t too hard. i cant tell you much more i am not a coach and i dont knwo don’t know how you fly or what would be best for you. i learned head down from a sit and belly ect.. and i know some rw guys who can true head down better cleaner and faster then i can. head down is really dangerous in the tunnel and thats that’s a no brainer brainier, you have to back fly then sit fly and do multi movements before you will ever be allowed to head down in there. one thing you can do is this spread your legs as wide as possible and put your arms to your sides and then bend at the waist forward till you fall in the hole and your leg with will give you drag and you can learn balence balance from there, some guys do the olav straddle mostly your knees will be slightly bendt bent torso straight dont don’t look down at the ground look at the horizen horizon and fidn find a balence balance and technique for it. i aint ain’t pretty but i can film a group doing it. doing it very well is very hard doing it ok and being safe takes jumps. good luck i call it or others call it going down the tube wooosh Like you said, you are not a coach and do not know how she flies. Without knowing what her experience level is it is hard to offer meaningful advice.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mjosparky 3 #25 August 14, 2006 Quotewish you guys get off the horse and answer her damn question. poor girl has been in the sport for 4 years i am sure she has the jumps probly doesnt probably doesn’t want to update her jumps i know a guy a who has 800 jumps and holds a A lic. please girl these guys are the ones who started head downing at 50 jumps and sit flying like most of us did but they get all high and mighty and ignorently ignorantly think they are the only ones to do it. give me a break, if you can back fly you can head down back flying is harder for me to leanr learn the sit flying everrything everything is all backwards ect... head down is not really hard to learn or hold it is very hard to do head down grips and vrw work that would be very dangerous but practicing with your self solo or getting coached from someone good is fine thing to do. head down isnt isn’t some monster due to the speed you spread out you slow down. you have a ditter dytter you call it at 5000 and get belly slow down ect... now how many people have seen get into a uncontroled uncontrolled flat spin while trying to back fly and even sit fly and i have seen a few aff level 4-6 who some how ended up on there back spinning. so head down is not so dangerous it also has hothing nothing to do with sit fly or back fly going belly and deep liek like no lift dives have great speed true head down isnt isn’t too hard. i cant tell you much more i am not a coach and i dont knwo don’t know how you fly or what would be best for you. i learned head down from a sit and belly ect.. and i know some rw guys who can true head down better cleaner and faster then i can. head down is really dangerous in the tunnel and thats that’s a no brainer brainier, you have to back fly then sit fly and do multi movements before you will ever be allowed to head down in there. one thing you can do is this spread your legs as wide as possible and put your arms to your sides and then bend at the waist forward till you fall in the hole and your leg with will give you drag and you can learn balence balance from there, some guys do the olav straddle mostly your knees will be slightly bendt bent torso straight dont don’t look down at the ground look at the horizen horizon and fidn find a balence balance and technique for it. i aint ain’t pretty but i can film a group doing it. doing it very well is very hard doing it ok and being safe takes jumps. good luck i call it or others call it going down the tube wooosh Like you said, you are not a coach and do not know how she flies. Without knowing what her experience level is it is hard to offer meaningful advice.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
