How to start Head-Down???

[fruitmedley 0]

What steps can I take on my own to start the transition to head-down? I don't want to develop any bad habits early, but I want to be prepared when I start asking for serious coaching from more advanced flyers. My sit is solid, controlled, and I'm able to stay relative to others. I have taken head-down exits with others and held them for a thousand feet or so but as soon as they let go I bounce out of it.

JUMP NUMBERS DON'T MEAN S!#T!!!!!!

[Pendragon 1]

I guess you can practise half-cartwheels; try and put yourself in the position for a sec or 2 then flip back onto your feet.

...but that's about it. Problem with going head down is that even when you've got it right, it feels wrong at first - and it's very disorientating.

You may wish to get some advice from a coach initially; go away and try some things then hit it hard with lots of coaching jumps.

From my own experience, it was a pain in the rear end to learn...

One other thing - there was a recent article by an experience coach back here in the UK; he was advocating that you spend a season on your feet before going head down. If you're profile is correct, I doubt whether you have much experience.

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BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[bradp 0]

Go out and do a bunch of solos and get used to seeing the world upside down...it can be quite disorienting at first.

Learn to fly with your legs and not with your arms. Too many people fly with their arms because it is easiers to hold yourself in a head down position that way, but take away their arms and they will be all over the place. Your arms should be freely movable so you can easily take docks.

Feel the wind on your body. Do you feel the wind hitting your back...or your front of your body? Chances are the first few attempts you will probably be in more of a steep track than a vertical position.
If it feels like a struggle to hold the position you are probably not doing it right. You will know when it just clicks and you get it.

Best thing to do is to ask an experienced freeflyer at your dropzone to show you the correct head down body position and go and practice the position on the ground. I find headstands are a pretty good way of getting a feel for the position on the ground. Trying to explain to you in words what the correct body position is, probably wont be too effective. Its something you should rather be shown.

I would also highly recommend getting video footage of your jumps or coaching every couple of jumps. Constant visual feedback will help with your progression immensely and will speed up your learning curve. Just be patient through the process and keep at it.

However, I do agree with Pendragon about spending alot of time on your feet before going on your head.
I did about 500 head up jumps before i ever attempted to learn to fly head down. Head up is easy to get the basics. But takes along time to master.

But I definately recommend going to get some coaching.

And persevere and do the mental ground work. Just as important as the airtime.

[Derekbox 0]

The first step to learning head down is head up. Its so much safer and better in the long run that way. Can you fly heads up, stable? Then learn transitions.... then head down. ;)

[FFlyer 0]

Well I have just recently 'come right' with headdown and am now able to do some basic movement and docks. But believe me it took a long time to get here.

I first tried about 10 headdown at 200 jumps and was all over the place without even really realising it. (thats a big problem when you first start, you can be zooming all over the sky and you dont even know it). I then just carried on with sitflying and at around 400 jumps I gave headdown a try. I got 15 headdown coach jumps all in the space of 1 month plus solos, and I seemed to have gotten it right.

Basically, I think when you are ready to learn headdown, you will get it. If you're not ready, its not going to happen!

Anyway, if you think you are ready (which im not so sure about judging by your profile) then things to help you would be:
-Get coaching
-Get the coach to just hold you headdown from exit to break off (at least for 1 jump)
-headstands as someone has already mentioned.
-Concentrate on where the wind is hitting your body. You really need to know if the wind is hitting you in the wrong place.

Good luck, be safe (headdown is VERY zoomy)

[bch7773 0]

I have nearly 500 jumps and I still haven't seriously touched headdown. I think its so much better to really master a sitfly before i move on, because a sitfly is many times the recovery position from headdown.

and mastering a sitfly is much more then just being able to stay stable. Can you sideslide, turn, transition into a spike, take docks, do flips and cartwheels, all with great stability? unless you have lots of tunnel time, it seems unlikely

MB 3528, RB 1182

[EricaH 0]

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a sitfly is much more then just being able to stay stable. Can you sideslide, turn, transition into a spike, take docks, do flips and cartwheels, all with great stability?

I just wanted to reitterate this sentiment, please, please don't rush it. After all you have potentially 1000's of jumps to get through, why rush.

However, one thing, do not try head down until you are able to pick out the direction of jump run while sitting. Then always make sure you're turned 90 degrees off of jump run.

As everyone will admit, when learning head down everyone is ZOOMY. It is so easy to zoom right the group ahead of you or under the group before you; either could be deadly.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[apoil 0]

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Go out and do a bunch of solos and get used to seeing the world upside down...it can be quite disorienting at first.

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with that.

Very few people will actually be head down on a solo, even when they think they are. While he might get used to an upside down picture, he will likely be tracking across the sky - hopefully not up or down the jump run.

What he will be doing is ingraining bad habits and forcing his eventual coach to chase him all around the sky just to fix it.

If you aren't going to do formal coaching, then get another friend who is a good solid sit flyer and practice doing transitions in front of him, never losing eye contact. If you get separation, immediately recover to your feet and get relative again. If your sit flying skills aren't up to that, then you aren't ready for head down.

[McDuck 0]

Rachael, get with Tony, Kev (yours), Micha or Alisha. Alisha is a decent freeflyer, and if you catch Micha when he's available, they might both go with you to help. There are plenty of people that can giv you assistance out there. I would, but I'm a tremendous slouch when it comes to working on head-down. You know, all that filming of fun stuff.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[spoons 0]

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Can you sideslide, turn, transition into a spike, take docks, do flips and cartwheels, all with great stability? unless you have lots of tunnel time, it seems unlikely

I agree with what you're saying, but I just thought I'd mention that tunnel time isn't strictly necessary - I've managed without any tunnel time

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[bch7773 0]

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Can you sideslide, turn, transition into a spike, take docks, do flips and cartwheels, all with great stability? unless you have lots of tunnel time, it seems unlikely

I agree with what you're saying, but I just thought I'd mention that tunnel time isn't strictly necessary - I've managed without any tunnel time

I meant since the original poster only had 125 jumps on his profile. I know I couldn't do everything in a sit at 125 jumps, unless i had tunnel time.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[fruitmedley 0]

I do only have 125 jumps, but they are all over the past 6 weeks and over 80 of them are freefly jumps, so my progress has been pretty steady. It's hard to get tunnel time because I have to travel and it's WAY out of my price range. I just try to be as productive as possible on every jump. ps, I'm a she! by the way thanks everyone for the advice so far...and thanks for taking your time out to post responses to my q's!

JUMP NUMBERS DON'T MEAN S!#T!!!!!!

[Squeak 17]

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I do only have 125 jumps, but they are all over the past 6 weeks and over 80 of them are freefly jumps, so my progress has been pretty steady. It's hard to get tunnel time because I have to travel and it's WAY out of my price range. I just try to be as productive as possible on every jump. ps, I'm a she! by the way thanks everyone for the advice so far...and thanks for taking your time out to post responses to my q's!

If you've done 125 jumps in 6 weeks tunnel time is NOT out of your price range

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[McDuck 0]

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If you've done 125 jumps in 6 weeks tunnel time is NOT out of your price range

It is when your main mode of transportation is a classic of a bicycle and the nearest accessible tunnel is a couple states away.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[brabzzz 0]

It is easily possible to be 'stable and capable of flying relative to others safely' in sit. I've done it on a 30 way sit jump, and my sit has a lot left to improve on. It's safe, but it's not tight/precise and exact. I imagine that what I can get away with in the air would beat me into a pulp against the walls of a tunnel.

I looked back at some of my vids from last summer. Eli was on many of the jumps - watching how he flies head-up, the hip and leg position, the control etc is remarkable for a mere mortal like me. If I could do sit half as well as he does, i probably wouldn't even want to learn head down!

I can't do head down yet. I'd like to, not just because the chicks dig it, but because it seems easier than really working on the head-up and taking it to the next level of precision and control. Being sh*t hot at head up will get you onto more good loads than being kinda-ok at both head up and down.... It ain't fun and it ain't sexy, but unless you are willing to sink some serious money into it, id's polish the sit up first. (a bit like comparing raps to aff...).

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Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[fruitmedley 0]

Ok, let's break it down:

-Transportation, lodging, and food for the weekend...$350-$400 (I don't own a car, I ride a bike, I like the environment)

-Time it takes to drive to the tunnel (if I can find someone who happens to be going that way)...10+ hrs

-1 hour in the tunnel (let's make it worth it for 10 hr drive, shall we?) with a coach...$750 MINIMUM

-Plus I have to request a pass from work...fat chance.

OR THE ALTERNATIVE: use the money I saved up to learn to skydive doing actually that...skydiving. So far I've spent (excluding gear purchases) roughly 3 grand. That's two trips to the tunnel. For that same 3k I've got about 2 hours of freefall...the same amount I would have got in the tunnel, right? (not to mention 3-4 minutes under canopy per jump...roughly 10 hours total)

But there are some things money will never buy:

I would NEVER take those two hours of tunnel time in trade for the experiences I have had in the past 6 weeks...the silliness on the rides to altitude, telling the pilot to do a trick and getting zero g's, the rush of the real wind in my face, looking around and actually seeing the ground and the sky and the clouds, making friends I will have for the rest of my life, my awesome boyfriend who I never would have met otherwise, laughing, drinking, debating, discussing, learning, falling down and getting back up again, messing up, succeeding, accumulating HOURS under canopy that a tunnel can't give you, a pack job under my belt for every jump, the whole picture, really. I would give up neither my last 125 jumps nor my next 125 for those priceless memories.

I am in NO WAY bagging on or downplaying tunnel time..don't get me wrong. I am well aware of it's benefits to beginners and experts alike. I would JUMP (no pun intended) at the chance to get in one...but not everyone has the resources to do both. I believe there is plenty one can learn without it...after all...they started parachuting long before they invented wind tunnels!!! One day I will experience the tunnel and reap the benefits of it, but until then...blue skies!!!

JUMP NUMBERS DON'T MEAN S!#T!!!!!!

[bch7773 0]

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It is easily possible to be 'stable and capable of flying relative to others safely' in sit. I've done it on a 30 way sit jump, and my sit has a lot left to improve on. It's safe, but it's not tight/precise and exact.

I would argue that sort of situation is unsafe, because if you can't stay tight during a 30 way, its quite possibly to drift into someone else's air, or hit someone, etc. And with 30 people in the air around you, if two people collide, its likely that more will crash into their burble, creating a big funnel. And at sitfly speeds that is dangerous.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[brabzzz 0]

There's tight and there's tight. There were smaller loads building up to it, not everyone ended up on the final load and it was all pretty organised. If you were not safe, you were not on that load...

Early sit is spent getting good enough to get on the bigger loads. And once there, you realise that despite being 'safe', you don't actually know shit! You're all 'safe', but there are guys flying 1000% more efficiently and effectively that you. Flying tight is important, but how tight is tight? Tight enough for a 30 way? Depends what you're doing on it. I've had to fly tighter and more precisely on some 3 ways than i have on some jumps several times that number.

Might have been a bit misleading - but 'tight' in my previous post i meant really tight as in FF-god tight. I can fly my slot, but there are some people that can really fly head up on another level altogether.

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Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[Vectracide 0]

Make all of your FF exits a flower exit with soft grips on the arm, or a high/low grips. This will get you used to the orientation and start muscle memory for your legs. Other than that.... lots of practice.

B.

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Controlled and Deliberate.....

[freesky 0]

***-Get the coach to just hold you headdown from exit to break off (at least for 1 jump)

If the coach can t not to dad,is it because is not a good one?Better take a another one?

[hparrish 0]

Are you Hot??? I'll coach you if you're hot.
Just kidding

If you are at Raeford.......Which it sounds like you are. There are plenty of talented freeflyers there. I think Kevin is a good judge of character and can help you find a good FF coach.

IMHO - you should spend a year on your feet.

[Sonicfreefly 0]

Everybody flies a little different, but to get a general idea for the correct body position, lie on your back on the floor. You will notice that you can put your hand in the space between the small of your back and the floor and the back of your neck and the floor. Now if you bend your knees a bit, the space between the the small of your back will decrease. If you lower your chin to your chest the space behind your neck will decrease. Adjust your body accordingly till your spine is straight. Spread legs apart and put your arms a little bit in front of you so they are in your view.
Now standing in this body position, close your eyes and find your balance point over your hips. This is your neutral body position. If you move your chin forward you will feel your balance shift forward. If you move your chin back your balance point will shift and put you into reserve. Practice this feeling of subtle shifts of your balance point over your hips. A little movement goes a long way. Relaxing and breathing goes a long ways as well. I'm just barely scratching the surface of this topic. A good coach with video will definitely speed up your learning curve.