cutaway1 3 #1 February 9, 2006 Is freeflying free of the obligation to perform an agreed upon task, or is it predominately improvization. I've been wondering since i find myself making hurdreds and hurdreds of jumps with the same general group of people, and as a group, not improving very much over the last 5 years. In rw we knew what we wanted to accomplish on a two way, three way, four way, and we practised and analysed the same dive until we got it. I love freeflying, but i wonder if merely horesing around in freefall is as fullfilling as acomplishing a goal.SCR-21 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #2 February 9, 2006 The same thing bothers me sometimes. If we go up with a very loose plan and horsing around happens, that's one thing. If we go up with a good plan and someone just decides they don't feel like trying to do it, well.. they're kinda wasting my jump. If they try but can't that's one thing.. but if they just don't try, that bugs me. I hate when you dirt dive a freefly jump and you can tell that a bunch of people are ignoring the plan, or not commiting it to memory. I want to jump with people who rehearse the jump a few times before they board the plane, and a few times on the way to altitude. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flow 1 #3 February 9, 2006 http://www.freeflyeuphoria.com/freefly-tips.asp Tip 1 and 2 sums it up pretty well. "If one wishes to progress in freeflying, set a goal for every skydive. If you do not achieve your goal for that particular skydive, try to learn why things did not go as planned." "And lastly for this week, keep the group sizes small. "Zoo dives", (jumps with lots of people, little skill and no plan), are not only counterproductive for the learning curve, but they are extremely dangerous. Don't jump with lots of people just for the sake of doing "big ways." After I've tried to set a goal for every jump I've learned a lot more than before, and it's very fun when you achieve your goal and can say "Hey I've learned a new thing here." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougiefresh 0 #4 February 9, 2006 QuoteThe same thing bothers me sometimes. If we go up with a very loose plan and horsing around happens, that's one thing. If we go up with a good plan and someone just decides they don't feel like trying to do it, well.. they're kinda wasting my jump. If they try but can't that's one thing.. but if they just don't try, that bugs me. I hate when you dirt dive a freefly jump and you can tell that a bunch of people are ignoring the plan, or not commiting it to memory. I want to jump with people who rehearse the jump a few times before they board the plane, and a few times on the way to altitude. -Karen And that's exactly why VRW is going to be so good for this sport. It forces freeflyers to plan the jump and jump the plan, which some are really not good at. But I think it will seperate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak -- people who don't want to be serious don't have to participate.Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EXTremeWade 0 #5 February 10, 2006 Here is one thing I can add to this ordeal, especially since I know what its like to just horse around as well as do some serious stuff. NO names, but at my DZ there are a few people I jump wiht that get mad when I try to propse a serious jump. They say, " skydiving should just be for fun" and " I hate it when people get serious, becuase they loose the reason why the started jumping in the first place- to have fun" I cannot stand being ridiculed for this non sense soley on the fact that I wanted to actaully start something with more spice than just jumpinj out of a plane, that was whn I had 25 jumps, is self-improvement something to ridicule, or not? What do you say to someone when you can see the frustration in their eyes when you want to have a serious type of jump, and they still wanna play around and not listen to whats goin? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #6 February 10, 2006 Quotehttp://www.freeflyeuphoria.com/freefly-tips.asp Zoo dives", (jumps with lots of people, little skill and no plan), are not only counterproductive for the learning curve, but they are extremely dangerous. Gotta disagree, It's not the Zoo jump that's dangerous, it's the people on it. If your jumping with experienced freeflyers who are used to jumping together it can be alot of fun.Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bak_peter 0 #7 February 10, 2006 Quote Zoo dives", (jumps with lots of people, little skill and no plan), Read the quote, it says "lots of people, LITTLE SKILL".... Little skills: Then we are not talking about experienced freeflyers. I agree with flow and the quote from Freeflyeuphorias homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flow 1 #8 February 10, 2006 I wasn't saying that those jumps couldn't be fun. Jumps with no proper plan and with people who have the skill can be refreshing but aren't really that good to develope yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #9 February 10, 2006 I don't know if VRW is for me. Certainly I like it sometimes.. but I wouldn't be surprised if freeflying went in two directions.. one way that is more like traditional RW.. and one way that is like small group freestyle but without the ballerina stuff. That's where I'd be at.. dancing upside down. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #10 February 10, 2006 I think you are generalizing by discipline, when rather, you should be generalizing by personality type. I remember back in my flat flying days, there was nobody at the DZ freeflying, and the belly crowd was divided in two. One group was dedicated to points - everything had a dirt dive and a debrief. The other group was dedicated to...well I don't really know - every jump was a rodeo, a weedwhacker thingy, a freefall jello fight, a whagonwheel dirtball, or some other "pointless" skydive. Incidently, most of the people from group one are still jumping, most of the people from group two sold their rigs long ago. Today, we are seeing the same thing, only now it's freeflying. Don't give up on the discipline, just get new jump buddies. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #11 February 15, 2006 Damn girl....we gotta jump together more often. Now all you have to do is stop all that silly tandem packing stuff and jump with me! ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
volo 0 #12 February 16, 2006 For everyone, here's something to consider. It's obvious that everybody's personalities are different and some people have preferences in freeflying. Whether you are going out and goofing off or you plan a predetermined dive is up to that person (and the people they tend to jump with). I myself believe that there's a balance. I love just hanging out and flying with friends, but now that VRW is here, I can't get enough of it. I realize it's not for everyone though and that's fine. Freeflying has now evolved into a branching of different disciplines, which is great. Fun goof off freefly jumps are great and that's where freeflying's beginnings started. But the skill level now has progressively gotten higher, thanks to those people who have pushed the sport of freefly. If it wasn't for serious training and dedication to pushing the level of freefly skill, we wouldn't get to watch cool video of things like: Teams (e.g. Anomaly, Alchemy, Guano, etc.) Freefly World Records Project Horizon events VRW ...and so much more! So whether you like to just go out and not plan a fun freefly jump, plan a predetermined skilled jump, or a little of both...as long as you're having fun, it really doesn't matter, right? Jason Jerusalem http://homepage.mac.com/jason_fl/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #13 February 16, 2006 QuoteIf we go up with a very loose plan and horsing around happens, that's one thing. It is easy to lose perspective on, not just planning and practicing, but on the speed of this sport when we are talking about it in hindsight. Hypothesis...If out on a planned freefly dive (even as small as a four way) with medium to low time jumpers and the base starts getting radical - spinning and lots of tension. Then imagine that it explodes. Bodies may fly in different directions. The plan is to come back to the round and it doesn't happen for at least 5 to 8 seconds. Hypothetical over. Thing is, I'm not going to be the one sitting around waiting for everyone to come back to base. And I don't expect anyone else to either. Why? Because I want to know where the hell he/she everyone is located in the sky. Therefore, at that point, I'm backing up too. This may be one of many reasons that plans go to shit in freeflying. Probably more often then flat flying - taking into perspective jump numbers and all. I think it is important to keep jump plans geared well with experience level on the jump. And define backup plans according to this too. There is little need to get ahead of yourself. Air-time is airtime no matter how you get it. Forcing a formation with those who can not carry a position is ludacrissss. It all should be looked at as fun imho. Even the serious shit. More than 50% of the dives I am on, bigger than a 3 way, go to shit anyway. And I'm smilin anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #14 March 8, 2006 QuoteHere is one thing I can add to this ordeal, especially since I know what its like to just horse around as well as do some serious stuff. NO names, but at my DZ there are a few people I jump wiht that get mad when I try to propse a serious jump. They say, " skydiving should just be for fun" and " I hate it when people get serious, becuase they loose the reason why the started jumping in the first place- to have fun" I cannot stand being ridiculed for this non sense soley on the fact that I wanted to actaully start something with more spice than just jumpinj out of a plane, that was whn I had 25 jumps, is self-improvement something to ridicule, or not? What do you say to someone when you can see the frustration in their eyes when you want to have a serious type of jump, and they still wanna play around and not listen to whats goin? There are two personality extremes of that type in the sport: those who are into skydiving for the personal challenge and those that are into it for the total freedom from that aspect of life, a refuge from all the responsibility and crap they have to deal with every other day of the week. When you try to bring "serious stuff" into their playground it completely kills why they're into the sport, just like how they like to goof off is no fun to you. I think it's just two incompatible personality types. Your best bet would be to find a new group to play with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #15 March 8, 2006 enjoying yourself IS accomplishing a goal.. everyone does not always share the same goal...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites losty 0 #16 March 8, 2006 Those who know do not brief Those who brief do not know Confounded those who employ Plan, for they are are without joy Heaven is the aimless track That for nothing it does crack There can be no perfect time But when folds the sublime Chaos seems the stain But forsaken is it's reign Revision will not fail Posessions dirty tail For to know the way And prepare its stay To give up a pattern and forget the batton Is to Let it flippin happen The way and its bla bla bla de bla bla.... ofttt........ze taaaakkeen ze pusss Spontaneity ?.>?>.?Yahoo Serious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #17 March 16, 2006 QuoteI think you are generalizing by discipline, when rather, you should be generalizing by personality type...... Today, we are seeing the same thing, only now it's freeflying. Don't give up on the discipline, just get new jump buddies. Great post. Type As and Type Bs can mix, but just infrequently, and typically only on Type B dives - as the Type Bs tend to be less flexible about it - strangely enough. His current jump buddies can just be occasional jump buddies or other jumpers he socialize with but may be don't jump with as often - it's too stressful for both. I think it's amazing that if the original post was up a year ago, he'd have 90% replies telling him to lighten up and that he was 'wrong' in his manner and approach. Now, there's new opportunity for self improvment in the discipline and 90% of the replies support his position as an accepted way to approach FF. I wonder what's next in the sport..... I wonder just what FF creepers will look like and how they'll function..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ntacfreefly 0 #18 March 16, 2006 QuoteI wonder just what FF creepers will look like and how they'll function..... Not sure on the creepers, but I can tell you that GI-JOE doll sales are on the rise They make great visual aids when planning VRW. Blues, IanTo the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #19 March 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder just what FF creepers will look like and how they'll function..... Not sure on the creepers, but I can tell you that GI-JOE doll sales are on the rise They make great visual aids when planning VRW. Blues, Ian I'd think that being strapped to a harness that allows me to be rotated upright or upside-down which is on rollers will still be more comfortable than laying on my stomache and holding up my head with the neck's muscles. I can see the contraption already.....of course any padding will have to be tiedyed. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ntacfreefly 0 #20 March 17, 2006 QuoteI'd think that being strapped to a harness that allows me to be rotated upright or upside-down which is on rollers will still be more comfortable than laying on my stomache and holding up my head with the neck's muscles. I can see the contraption already.....of course any padding will have to be tiedyed The new levels of abuse that we can take creepers too will be staggering....it'll be awesome To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #21 March 19, 2006 I can see it now, the VRW creeper ad in the peapit.com! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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MarkM 0 #14 March 8, 2006 QuoteHere is one thing I can add to this ordeal, especially since I know what its like to just horse around as well as do some serious stuff. NO names, but at my DZ there are a few people I jump wiht that get mad when I try to propse a serious jump. They say, " skydiving should just be for fun" and " I hate it when people get serious, becuase they loose the reason why the started jumping in the first place- to have fun" I cannot stand being ridiculed for this non sense soley on the fact that I wanted to actaully start something with more spice than just jumpinj out of a plane, that was whn I had 25 jumps, is self-improvement something to ridicule, or not? What do you say to someone when you can see the frustration in their eyes when you want to have a serious type of jump, and they still wanna play around and not listen to whats goin? There are two personality extremes of that type in the sport: those who are into skydiving for the personal challenge and those that are into it for the total freedom from that aspect of life, a refuge from all the responsibility and crap they have to deal with every other day of the week. When you try to bring "serious stuff" into their playground it completely kills why they're into the sport, just like how they like to goof off is no fun to you. I think it's just two incompatible personality types. Your best bet would be to find a new group to play with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #15 March 8, 2006 enjoying yourself IS accomplishing a goal.. everyone does not always share the same goal...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
losty 0 #16 March 8, 2006 Those who know do not brief Those who brief do not know Confounded those who employ Plan, for they are are without joy Heaven is the aimless track That for nothing it does crack There can be no perfect time But when folds the sublime Chaos seems the stain But forsaken is it's reign Revision will not fail Posessions dirty tail For to know the way And prepare its stay To give up a pattern and forget the batton Is to Let it flippin happen The way and its bla bla bla de bla bla.... ofttt........ze taaaakkeen ze pusss Spontaneity ?.>?>.?Yahoo Serious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #17 March 16, 2006 QuoteI think you are generalizing by discipline, when rather, you should be generalizing by personality type...... Today, we are seeing the same thing, only now it's freeflying. Don't give up on the discipline, just get new jump buddies. Great post. Type As and Type Bs can mix, but just infrequently, and typically only on Type B dives - as the Type Bs tend to be less flexible about it - strangely enough. His current jump buddies can just be occasional jump buddies or other jumpers he socialize with but may be don't jump with as often - it's too stressful for both. I think it's amazing that if the original post was up a year ago, he'd have 90% replies telling him to lighten up and that he was 'wrong' in his manner and approach. Now, there's new opportunity for self improvment in the discipline and 90% of the replies support his position as an accepted way to approach FF. I wonder what's next in the sport..... I wonder just what FF creepers will look like and how they'll function..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #18 March 16, 2006 QuoteI wonder just what FF creepers will look like and how they'll function..... Not sure on the creepers, but I can tell you that GI-JOE doll sales are on the rise They make great visual aids when planning VRW. Blues, IanTo the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 March 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder just what FF creepers will look like and how they'll function..... Not sure on the creepers, but I can tell you that GI-JOE doll sales are on the rise They make great visual aids when planning VRW. Blues, Ian I'd think that being strapped to a harness that allows me to be rotated upright or upside-down which is on rollers will still be more comfortable than laying on my stomache and holding up my head with the neck's muscles. I can see the contraption already.....of course any padding will have to be tiedyed. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #20 March 17, 2006 QuoteI'd think that being strapped to a harness that allows me to be rotated upright or upside-down which is on rollers will still be more comfortable than laying on my stomache and holding up my head with the neck's muscles. I can see the contraption already.....of course any padding will have to be tiedyed The new levels of abuse that we can take creepers too will be staggering....it'll be awesome To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #21 March 19, 2006 I can see it now, the VRW creeper ad in the peapit.com! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
