Some more insight to me on learning Headdown

[lilchief 0]

Hi guys!

I just finished reading some about how to learn flying headdown. I'm going to start training seriously to achive my goal, witch is: Being able to stay in headdown position from exit to separation altitude and manage to observe my altimiter. This i want to accomplish before reaching jump number 100(I'm on 72 jumps now)

I'm a little skeptic about keeping my arms a little bit towards my legs(upwards). Isn't that a more unstable position then keeping arms straight out and balance more on the wind? If possible, could someone post a picture of a good newbie headdown position? I learn best from watching and memorizing.

I currently mange to stay stabile in sit and got some,not perfect, control over where I'm heading in sit and doing turns. A freeflyer here posted that you should have GOOD control in sit before attempting headdown.I'm going to continue learning belly and sit after just getting stable in HD(If someone experienced wants to kno the reason, I'll post it, but i warn you, I removed it because is was a lot of text ).

Should there be a big red warning light going off in my head know, or do you think that I could start, just be really careful and keep correct heading?

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[skybytch 259]

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Should there be a big red warning light going off in my head know, or do you think that I could start, just be really careful and keep correct heading?

Anytime you feel the need to qualify a statement by adding "just be really careful," whatever it is you're thinking about doing probably isn't a good idea at the time.

Personally I'm waiting to learn headdown until after I'm able to dock and fly linked head up (sitting) and on my back. I figure that since these are likely to be my recovery positions from head down it makes sense to be really, really good at them before I turn the world upside down.

[ibx 2]

Hy,

I've learned stable HD recently. I can say, that it helped me enourmously being able to fast transitions in all directions in a sit.

When popping out of HD I could immeniatly go into a sit from any position without corking to much, I would loose a maximum of 20ft verticly and 15 ft horizontily. After stablizing I could cartwheel back into HD,and keep trying... Even if the transition didn't work out I would be in sitting again fast, without loosing much speed, and then I could try again. And this what you will probably be doing later on anyway... Just flying HD the wohle way gets a bit boring once you get it right... Transitions are the real fun for me...

I would think at your experience level your natural fallback postion would be belly, it was mine... And going to your belly on freefly jump is a not good idea...

I think it is important to be safe and comfortable at sitfly including all transitions(Cartwheel, Frontflip Backflip and a fast 360) before attempting HD, you will probably learn a lot faster too...

My 2 ct.

[lilchief 0]

Thank you both for convincing me

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[Feeblemind 1]

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Should there be a big red warning light going off in my head know, or do you think that I could start, just be really careful and keep correct heading?

Anytime you feel the need to qualify a statement by adding "just be really careful," whatever it is you're thinking about doing probably isn't a good idea at the time.

Personally I'm waiting to learn headdown until after I'm able to dock and fly linked head up (sitting) and on my back. I figure that since these are likely to be my recovery positions from head down it makes sense to be really, really good at them before I turn the world upside down.

Gotta Love Lisa!!!! She is often the voice of reason!!!

Keep offering the great advice Lisa!!!

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[flycurt 0]

Hey Chief -

Do what you want, but I would recommend developing your belly, back, and sitfly skills first. Considering the jump experience in your profile, you are a big guy and are still a good ways away from flying on your head. Here are a few reasons.

1. Safety, safety, safety. I recommend using a crawl, walk, run mindset. Don't be in a hurry to master FF-ing. This is an advanced form of skydiving and you need more than your basic skills to learn and master it.

2. You need solid sitfly skills to fall back on during you HD attempts, just like you should have solid belly flying skills to fall back on when learning to sitfly. The main reason for this is heading control, because of safety, safety, safety.

3. Heading control. if you can't control you heading, you could slide under or over jumpers that exit before of after you. It is typical for newer FF-ers to laterally slide as they gain stability. This become extremely dangerous near deployment time if you are unaware of you position in the sky. A 90 degree heading offset from jump run is imperative, also adding a 2-3 more seconds of separation time to your exit will give you an extra margin of safety.

4. When learning how to FF, your goal should not be to stay in your particular orientation for the entire jump. This could again put you and other jumpers into a dangerous situation. I recommend when learning to SF, a jumper exit in a sit and work your stability for 5- 10 seconds, then regardless of how stable you think you are, rotate to your belly. At this point you take a moment to scan the airspace above, below and around you. This will put you into your most familiar body position and help you gain back your composure. Now check heading and altitude, and if all is clear front or back flip back into your SF and repeat 5-10 seconds of SF stability, then back to your belly again. Eventually, as you gain experience and confidence, you can add more time to you SF, until finally you are in SF for the entire jump. This same technique can be used when learning to fly HD, except now you go to your SF instead of you belly. This will keep you and others safe, while helping you learn to FF a bit quicker.

5. You might ask yourself, well when is a good time to transition to learning HD? Once you are able to fall neutral (minimal sliding) in a SF for the entire jump, a 2-way with an experienced FF-er can tell you this, you should begin to work basic SF skills. These would consist of fall rate control (SF body positions, backfly to stand) and transitions in all 3 planes, in both directions and 2 basic docks. Hand to foot and feet to knee docks. Once you can perform these basic techniques during an entire jump you are ready for HD.

6. You also need a proper tracking technique, (a sky survival skill), tracking dives are a great way to develop this skill. You must be able to maximize your separation at break-off.

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I just finished reading some about how to learn flying headdown. I'm going to start training seriously to achive my goal, witch is: Being able to stay in headdown position from exit to separation altitude and manage to observe my altimiter. This i want to accomplish before reaching jump number 100(I'm on 72 jumps now)

Lastly, your comment here is what really concerns me. Reading about FF is good, but there is no substitute for proper coaching from a qualified FF coach. I think what I explained earlier should dispell what you stated here. But more importantly, the video of yourself learning to FF is an invaluable tool you can fall back on before heading to the DZ. Use your log book and write down everything you experienced during a day of jumping and revisit your video and logbook before each new day of jumping. Visualization is also a great tool for those days that you can't get to the DZ.

I know there is alot here, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. Also, don't do anything bigger than 2-ways, 2-ways, 2-ways, for at least 50-100 jumps. Your learning curve will go way up disciplining yourself to do this. You need to take it slow and while being safe make sure you have fun learning how to FF.

Good Luck and Blue Skies!

[skydivenagasaki 0]

Here's my .02, you can take it for what it's worth...the freefly progression for 99% of skydivers is probably something along the lines of sit, stand, headdown. So naturally, the "safe" position when learning HD is your sit. How many times have we all corked out of sits? How can that be any more dangerous than corking from your head? If a person were to learn HD, then go on to Head-up positions, what's the harm? Then they have a safe position when they cork their sit which is probably more than most of us can say in the beginning. Whatever you decide to do, be careful, have fun, and the same rules apply when it comes to starting to fly with others, be able to hold your position...

"and if you don't like it then 'Hey Fuck You'"
--The Beastie Boys--

[hookitt 0]

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How many times have we all corked out of sits? How can that be any more dangerous than corking from your head?

It takes most people very little time to figure out how to control a basic sit position. It takes longer to be maneuverable and have it be a "neutral" position after some form of tumble.

People don't zoom around much while learning head up. People zoom around like crazy learning how to control head down. It’s really apparent when a person skips basics. Proficiency on the feet is nothing basic by the way.

Head up flying teaches leg control and great balance. With out good leg control, people tend balance on their shoulders with their arms straight out when flying head down.

Head up, and head down are just 2 positions. They can be flown or can be just a pose. Standing, doing spins, layouts etc... is over looked far too often. If a person wishes to learn how to freefly well, they should become proficient on their feet and do a lot of tricks in the process. Head down comes a whole lot easier that way.

Sure a person can learn how to fly on their head before becoming proficient on their head but I can assure you that learning to be a complete body flyer will take a lot longer and many habits will have to be changed later on.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[jools 0]

better stay head up till you have sit mastered.
to the point of following tandems in a slow sit to keeping up with fast head downer in a stand. you could be ther now or in 250 jumps.


remember it is all good fun until sombody loses a bollock....

"If you don't like it then fuck off" BASE 621

[Extrakt 0]

Get trace 101 and follow the progression of the freefly basics bit.
Headup rules, stick with it for a while, I'm just starting on a bit of
headdown now here and there after 108 headup and tracking jumps.
But am no where near where I wanna be with headup still, so still
concentrating on it mainly.

One thing that is cool to try is a solo track off jump run and gradually make it steeper and steeper as you go, you will end up in the atmonauti pos then you can take it to headdown for a sec then back to tracking, this should keep you out of others airspace too.

Then dump high and fly the shit out of your canopy, get your moneys worth!!!

"If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????"

www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic