FF Break Off

[littlestranger 0]

I've just started FF in larger groups (4) and have questions about breaking off safely.

I've practiced backtracking away on solo jumps but have a tendency to go almost vertical and loose alot of altitude w/o enough horizontal separation. Sometimes find myself veering off to the left, but can correct that. Would like some tips on transitioning smoothly before I try this in public.

Read a few posts that mention doing a 180 cartwheel and tracking away. I've unsuccessfully tried to picture this in my head...am I facing the group, do a half cartwheel headdown, while at the same time transitioning to belly and then track away? Seems like I would loose alot of speed.

I'd appreciate any input and suggestions on these and alternative break off methods, in the meantime I'll keep my distance.

[ccowden 0]

I assume you are talking about tracking away from a sit?

Go slow and keep it simple. Tell the others on your jump that you are breaking off a little early because you are working on your track. At first, just go into the "recliner" position and take a good look around to see where everyone is. Then try to flatten out your back so that you are tracking away from the group, always keeping your eyes on others. Really try to push your hips forward to get your back flat, as if you are trying to put a reverse arch in your back. Only stay on your back for a couple seconds each time and then go back to your belly to finish the track. You can gradually increase the time spent on your back as you get more comfortable. But the initial few seconds are what are critical, keeping the speed up by staying in the recliner as you convert that to your back track and keeping your eyes on everyone. Don't go to your belly track until you have started to gain seperation and have gradually slowed the freefall speed as you slowly flatten out.

Just as you learned on your belly, we want to get distance between us and the group. Your track won't be spectacular when you are first learning, but it will get better as you get more comfortable with it. If that means taking 1,000 extra feet to get that good smooth distance accomplished, so be it.

Have fun and be safe!

[AggieDave 6]

I tend to take a quick look around, toss a cartwheen and dive off into a track...arcing at first then so its not like corking into a track, then using that speed from the near headdown as I get really flat to haul ass.

I feel like its more effecient, long tracks and I'm still able to head on a swivel to see folks all around me as I track.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andrewnewell 0]

This is for basic group head up stuff.

Firstly you've gotta know where everyone is in you group and where their supposed to be. If your on a load with some low experienced people in your group and you lose sight of one of them you must assume that their behind you somewhere ( worst case above and behind)! It basically means that you must check your intended tracking route is clear before going for it.

Ok say that you are breaking at a reasonable altitude (5 grand ) There is no need for everyone to just flip onto their backs and start tracking immediately. you should acknowledge the altitude and slowly transition from your head up position to your tracking position trying to keep visuals with all of the other flyers in your group, try to keep visuals with them all the way until deployment time.

If your finding that from the head up position to the back track position it feels like your being flipped up backwards with your legs, try to go from the head up pos then into a crunched( ball) position as to decrease your speed gently, then once on the back straighten out into an efficient back track position remembering to try to keep visuals as you roll over.

Doing a 180 in the track to check the air space is clear above is a good idea. Im not so sure what you mean by doing it in the vertical? Is it so that you are head down before break off so that you can track away on the belly as opposed to the back? if that is the case, then you still haven't confirmed that theres no one behind you. not such a great idea.

If your group are all head down, I think it is better to turn and track way checking your route, then rolling over into the bellydown track to check out where everyone else is.

Try to stay away from abrupt speed changes on group dives and keep the visuals!!!

[LoudDan 0]

For what it's worth, I'd suggest working with a partner doing 2 ways (less people to keep track of, less chance of collision). Break higher than normal (say 6,500 instead of 5) to give yourself some time to "play" with your tracking. I agree fully with Dave and Chris, YOU MUST KNOW WHERE EVERYONE IS AT ALL TIMES.

If your profile is correct, you have somewhat low jump experience, not a slam we've all been there, but just because your not on your head doesn't make it any less dangerous if awareness is lost. Think of the awareness aspect as conditioning, you get comfortable flying two ways, you know where your partner is at break off time, and you can effectively gain sepparation. Good, add a third person, get comfortable knowing where the other two are at all times, learn how to "find" your partners if you loose sight of them and what to do if you can't find them, become proficient at clean break offs and tracking, and keep progressing from there. The safer you learn to skydive, the more skydives you can do.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[BETO74 0]

I agree with all the suggestions post it, the one I like the most is try with 2 ways and progressibly work your way to larger groups, why?? you ask, I had this happened to me with experience skydivers. Three way HD the #3 FFlyier could not keep up with our speed and even this persons position was HD was also high in comparison with us, I track on some sort of HD carving to track position happened that I was tracking under FFlyer #3 while this person was still HD, tracked for about 7 seconds waive and start my deploymnt, to my surprise I saw FFLyer #3 as I look up to video my opening, first as a small dot getting bigger until goes belly and start deployment too like 50 ft from my canopy, Hit my canopy passing me by 2 ft this persons lines and canopy deploying hits my canopy almost totally inflated at this poing and this persons canopy opens a 100 or 200 ft from where I was. You may say is bullshit, sounds like, right, but I have it on video pretty scary and is the scaries moment so far not even my cut away was that scary, I did not have to chop my canopy collapse and made a 360 and fully inflated, it was a crossfire.
My mistake and I don't wanna talk about other peoples mistake was not track on my back to clear the air space above me the 180 degrees manouver you heard about in the others post, since not always you're gonna be able to see everybody during your skydive.
Learn on small groups
Learn 180 degree back track

Very important while Freeflying.
Now we are gonna talk about that while back tracking you can't see the persons below you, the back tracking is just a couple seconds before you chase to a track position, just my two cts.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[Evelyn 0]

Hey...thanks for posting this. I just learned to sit fly in a tunnel, haven't even taken it to the sky yet, but I'd been wondering about how to transition from a sit to a track. I don't plan to FF with other people for a while, plan to do some solos and work on things I was doing with my FF tunnel coaches, then hire a FF coach to work with me in the sky. Now at least I've got an idea of what to work on with transitioning to tracking. Great advice in the replys to your post.

So wish me luck...good luck to you as well.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller

[Zoter 0]

Did you learn to sit in the Perris Tunnel?
If so....I hope they first showed you how to fly on your back and transition.....I think thats how they structure the progression....back flying.....sit flying and then anything else.
If not...just do some more tunnel time on transitioning....they are great at Perris in that tunnel

[Evelyn 0]

No, I learned to sit fly in the Vegas tunnel. My friend Katie who is an instucter there, and has flown the Perris tunnel and is a kick ass freeflyer told me the Vegas tunnel is the easiest place to learn to sit fly...maybe cuz the air is not as fast and you don't have to worry about hitting the walls, just fall onto the cushions if you get out of the air. But their progression is different. You don't do backflying first, just go straight to a sit. So yeah, I probably will try some coached FF in the Perris tunnel.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

maybe cuz the air is not as fast

Someone like me would be screwed...I've tried sitflying in the tunnel in Houston (portable push tunnel) and I already know how to sitfly pretty well. I had my body spread out in the slowest fallrate I am able to do in a sitfly and I couldn't get off the net for more then a split second when I "hopped" up.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Evelyn 0]

They told me that since the air is pretty choppy in the tunnel, that if I could hold it in the tunnel I could easily hold it in the air. Just have to get in the air and do it! And I am a light weight. Even though the air is slower in the Vegas tunnel, don't think they ever even got it to maximum for me.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller

[LoudDan 0]

I too am fairly well fucked for flying in the tunnel. I've got to drop some weight off my chunky ass.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I too am fairly well fucked for flying in the tunnel. I've got to drop some weight off my chunky ass.

Naw, they just need bigger and faster wind tunnels. We're talking FAST wind tunnels.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[littlestranger 0]

Got a little coaching this weekend from Gravity Rats, Robert and Bryan, on going from a sit to a track. It kind of starts out as a cartwheel except I pull my knees up at the same time my arm goes down and once I'm 180 punch it into a track, when I flatten it out I'm already on my belly and feel I have alot more control than I do on my back. I spent an entire skydive doing this and didn't feel I was loosing too much vertical speed. Need to jump with someone to be sure though.

[LoudDan 0]

Yeah, now if I could steal a 777 engine from down at the Delta hangar................we'd be in biness.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!