weegegirl 2 #26 May 10, 2004 QuoteInstead of making generalities about a generation of young/newer jumpers, why dont you stick to what you know...structure, rules, slots, and all that other boring crap. Yeah, WrongWay... you old fart... go back to your belly flyin!!! bwahahahahahaha!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #27 May 10, 2004 Quote Im sure a lot of it has to do with the freedom...no creeping..no slots.. you just fly they way you want too. If I feel like doing a circle around person A. I do it. I dont have to worry about stairstep, slot X, bla bla bla creep creep crepp ughhh..its so structuralized. QuoteRather, if anything, i am over ambitious...with plans on competing within the next couple of years Huh? I'm not sure how you're thinking of competing without needing to fly a slot or without a structure. Freeflying has randoms and blocks just like RW does. The free rounds in freeflying allow you to do whatever you like, but you and your teammate(s) still need to practice the same routine over and over so you can do it well. Freeflying and RW can both have as much or as little structure as you want depending on what you want to do with them. If you want to jump out with 5 other people all belly flying and just fly around and not have any structure then you can do that. Similarly if I want to go out with another freeflyer and do a double spock, vice-versa, double joker reverse, soles and try to get as many points as possible I can do that as well. There's no rules about how much structure one needs when flying in a particular orientation. edit to add this link about the freefly divepool: http://home.tiscali.be/breadhead/freefly_divepool_2003.pdfWind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #28 May 10, 2004 QuoteHuh? I'm not sure how you're thinking of competing without needing to fly a slot or with a structure. Freeflying has randoms and blocks just like RW does. . . There's no rules about how much structure one needs when flying in a particular orientation. Amen - http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1064949#1064949 Further, if you just "feel like doing a circle around person A" but you planned on something else and person A wanted to do the plan, then you are wasting Person A's 'hard earned money'. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #29 May 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteHuh? I'm not sure how you're thinking of competing without needing to fly a slot or with a structure. Freeflying has randoms and blocks just like RW does. . . There's no rules about how much structure one needs when flying in a particular orientation. Amen - http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1064949#1064949 Further, if you just "feel like doing a circle around person A" but you planned on something else and person A wanted to do the plan, then you are wasting Person A's 'hard earned money'. I agree with these guys too... I made 11 jumps this weekend... 9 freefly dives and 2 tracking dives. All of them were dirtdived but 1... exits, manuvers, docks, breakoffs, and all. But hey, have fun on all your crazy zoo dives. I'm sure you will get sick of them and start asking more questions about structure and planning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propilot 0 #30 May 10, 2004 THIS IS SKIPRO101... i accidentally used my email sign on instead of skipro101... but this is me hrmm..I suppose my view of freeflying and RW is skewed alittle from reality then. I guess im not surprised, i mean, I never sat down with a RW person and talk about what RW really is... I knew that FF had slots and moves that must be dirt dived to be in a competition, but I also knew that alot of the jumps people do are just...whatever ya want, make it up as you go (outside of competition). I had no idea that people RW with that same purpose (just go up and do whatever comes naturally..) I have never heard of that. My view of RW is ALL sctructure My view of FF is some structure (if you want) but also a large percentage of just going out and doing whatever. So people RW and just make it up without dirt diving? How prevelent is this? It surely isnt common at my dropzone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propilot 0 #31 May 10, 2004 QuoteQuote Further, if you just "feel like doing a circle around person A" but you planned on something else and person A wanted to do the plan, then you are wasting Person A's 'hard earned money'. well yes, lol, that goes without saying, you all must be on the same page. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RkyMtnHigh 0 #32 May 10, 2004 I think that new jumpers want to freefly because it's fun and also many (I didn't say "all") have ADD and a structured RW dive is like work not play. Yesterday on the sunset load, a JM and I did a Horny Gorilla. I corked, of course, but it was a BLAST! and I can't wait to do another and improve my sit. _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #33 May 10, 2004 QuoteMy view of FF is some structure (if you want) but also a large percentage of just going out and doing whatever. I'm seeing less and less of this. I see it going the way of RW - it started out as fun, challenging enough just to do simple docks. Now, as the teaching methods get better and people are accomplishing more and more I find "if it looks like a grip, it's a grip" dives less and less. Those kind of dives can be great fun with a good group of flyers, but often the good flyers are looking at more structured skydives anyway. Nowdays 90% of the time, I have way more fun on a sucessfully built FF dive than I did/do on "free" dives. Blue ones, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #34 May 10, 2004 Quote Thats all im saying...that AFTER we determine a person is safe when FFing, then all the other comments really are moot...because beyond saftey, I have a right to spend my money as I wish....and its not because im a spoiled little right kid...quite the opposite actually....which is precisely why im not going to start off with RW...because I dont want too and its my money that i worked extremly hard for. Cool. Understood and agreed. Quote All im saying is that some suggest that once one has more experiance, he or she can see that its better to start with RW. There are many examples of people who have thousands of jumps who do not feel that way. it has nothing to do with USPA, perhaps i should have just stated her jump numbers since thats what i was trying to get across...experiance. Also understood and agreed. Once again, cool. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites propilot 0 #35 May 10, 2004 Quote Cool. Understood and agreed. Quote Cool Edit;; ugggh,,.i did it again..this is skipro101 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #36 May 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteMy view of FF is some structure (if you want) but also a large percentage of just going out and doing whatever. I'm seeing less and less of this. I see it going the way of RW - it started out as fun, challenging enough just to do simple docks. Now, as the teaching methods get better and people are accomplishing more and more I find "if it looks like a grip, it's a grip" dives less and less. Those kind of dives can be great fun with a good group of flyers, but often the good flyers are looking at more structured skydives anyway. Nowdays 90% of the time, I have way more fun on a sucessfully built FF dive than I did/do on "free" dives. Blue ones, Ian I never really thought about it that hard, but i can see what your saying. perhaps when I get good enough to not be estatic about making a dock or two in a sit, I will look for more challenge through doing a preplanned diveflow.... untill then .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #37 May 11, 2004 Quoteperhaps when I get good enough to not be estatic about making a dock or two in a sit, I will look for more challenge through doing a preplanned diveflow.... untill then .... Now you're getting it. It's the same in all the disciplines. You need to decide at what point your skills are good enough that you are tired of zoo loads and want to kick some ass. Use skiing as an analogy. Mucking around in basic sit and FF, or zoo-out RW loads is a lot like a green or blue level skier. Eventually you want to ski the blacks and the bumps. But some skiers will be content to coast down green runs until they die. Good for them, it would cease being fun for a real athlete though. Some people are hacks their entire skydiving career. More power to them if that is what they consider fun. Not for me. Blues ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #38 May 11, 2004 ahhhhhh. that clears up some confusion. ha. split personalities, huh?? kidding! it's clear you "get it"... at least what we are trying to say. and i don't think anybody is trying to tell you how to spend money or what kind of dive you should be doing. i think we all have one universal goal, and that is safety. after that, make of it what you will. but i just spent an entire season doing zoo dives freeflying thinking i was living it up. i'll tell you what, it got boring quick. now i'm kind of a "snob" about who i jump with and what we do. i'll jump with any skill level as long as there are set goals for each dive. i want to learn something on every dive or else it IS a waste of my $20. and i find that the more i learn/achieve/acomplish on each dive, the more fun i have!!! see yah up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #39 May 11, 2004 Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #40 May 11, 2004 I'm to the point that I've went back to RW and flying RW camera since I got so burned out on freefly Zoo dives. After about 200 of them I realized that all I had learned in those jumps was to move all over and those skills suck for flying with someone in a very controlled environment. I feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #43 May 11, 2004 Quote I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Oh hell yeah!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #44 May 11, 2004 QuoteIts hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Sorry to hear that Phree, you are obviously freeflying with the wrong people. We have a small posse here in San Marcos that on regular occasions we are building 4 and 8 ways and turning points as well as pieces. Anyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #45 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I'd freefly a lot more if more freeflyers felt that way. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #46 May 11, 2004 QuoteAnyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. But usually only by those hack freeflyers that we've been talking about (hack relative workers do the same when discussing FF - it's about the personalities involved, not the skydiving discipline). Because to them FF is not a challenge, it's just a way for them to try to define themselves. So they have to make negative comparisons to shore up their tiny egos. RW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #47 May 11, 2004 But its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to. This doesn't make it right but in my experience, bellyflyers aren't too socialable. If you keep up to date, my team is sponsoring an intermediate freefly event this weekend to promote competitive freeflying and every year we have a wonderful turn out. The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #48 May 11, 2004 QuoteThe new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Not to mention that you guys do free coaching on weekends that you aren't training. I don't think i have even paid your slot That part i'll fix next time. I have said it before and i will say it over and over. I would have quit skydiving if not for the Rats taking me in and teaching me freeflying. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #49 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to . . . The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. That's a nice note. I'd certainly like to learn from someone with that attitude. But cliches happen in most disciplines. CrW might be the only exception, we'll take anybody, any time, anywhere, any skill level. Lately, in my area, the roles are reversed. The FF'ers are starting to figure out how to get better and want to do their thing and RW is the new haven for newer jumpers. That might just be because of the same attitude, the 4-way teams are doing quite a bit of sharing the last two years, much like the FF'ers had been doing when it was fresh 5-10 years ago. The short of it is, whatever is being freely and cheerfully mentored is usually what jazzes the newbies. I like to think of it as pushing the skill level of the sport up. First basic RW was freely shared, then basic FF, now an emergence of higher level 4-way is moving in, I suspect that high level competitive FF will be right on the tail of that. Total body flight (back, belly, head, sit, etc....) is on it's way if we don't get greedy (sly reference to the coach ratings threads). It's very exciting to be skydiving now. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billo 0 #50 May 11, 2004 QuoteRW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. TRUE DAT! very nice posts of yours in this thread, bill! i've enjoyed reading them and share your opinion on the subject. b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
RkyMtnHigh 0 #32 May 10, 2004 I think that new jumpers want to freefly because it's fun and also many (I didn't say "all") have ADD and a structured RW dive is like work not play. Yesterday on the sunset load, a JM and I did a Horny Gorilla. I corked, of course, but it was a BLAST! and I can't wait to do another and improve my sit. _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #33 May 10, 2004 QuoteMy view of FF is some structure (if you want) but also a large percentage of just going out and doing whatever. I'm seeing less and less of this. I see it going the way of RW - it started out as fun, challenging enough just to do simple docks. Now, as the teaching methods get better and people are accomplishing more and more I find "if it looks like a grip, it's a grip" dives less and less. Those kind of dives can be great fun with a good group of flyers, but often the good flyers are looking at more structured skydives anyway. Nowdays 90% of the time, I have way more fun on a sucessfully built FF dive than I did/do on "free" dives. Blue ones, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #34 May 10, 2004 Quote Thats all im saying...that AFTER we determine a person is safe when FFing, then all the other comments really are moot...because beyond saftey, I have a right to spend my money as I wish....and its not because im a spoiled little right kid...quite the opposite actually....which is precisely why im not going to start off with RW...because I dont want too and its my money that i worked extremly hard for. Cool. Understood and agreed. Quote All im saying is that some suggest that once one has more experiance, he or she can see that its better to start with RW. There are many examples of people who have thousands of jumps who do not feel that way. it has nothing to do with USPA, perhaps i should have just stated her jump numbers since thats what i was trying to get across...experiance. Also understood and agreed. Once again, cool. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propilot 0 #35 May 10, 2004 Quote Cool. Understood and agreed. Quote Cool Edit;; ugggh,,.i did it again..this is skipro101 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #36 May 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteMy view of FF is some structure (if you want) but also a large percentage of just going out and doing whatever. I'm seeing less and less of this. I see it going the way of RW - it started out as fun, challenging enough just to do simple docks. Now, as the teaching methods get better and people are accomplishing more and more I find "if it looks like a grip, it's a grip" dives less and less. Those kind of dives can be great fun with a good group of flyers, but often the good flyers are looking at more structured skydives anyway. Nowdays 90% of the time, I have way more fun on a sucessfully built FF dive than I did/do on "free" dives. Blue ones, Ian I never really thought about it that hard, but i can see what your saying. perhaps when I get good enough to not be estatic about making a dock or two in a sit, I will look for more challenge through doing a preplanned diveflow.... untill then .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #37 May 11, 2004 Quoteperhaps when I get good enough to not be estatic about making a dock or two in a sit, I will look for more challenge through doing a preplanned diveflow.... untill then .... Now you're getting it. It's the same in all the disciplines. You need to decide at what point your skills are good enough that you are tired of zoo loads and want to kick some ass. Use skiing as an analogy. Mucking around in basic sit and FF, or zoo-out RW loads is a lot like a green or blue level skier. Eventually you want to ski the blacks and the bumps. But some skiers will be content to coast down green runs until they die. Good for them, it would cease being fun for a real athlete though. Some people are hacks their entire skydiving career. More power to them if that is what they consider fun. Not for me. Blues ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #38 May 11, 2004 ahhhhhh. that clears up some confusion. ha. split personalities, huh?? kidding! it's clear you "get it"... at least what we are trying to say. and i don't think anybody is trying to tell you how to spend money or what kind of dive you should be doing. i think we all have one universal goal, and that is safety. after that, make of it what you will. but i just spent an entire season doing zoo dives freeflying thinking i was living it up. i'll tell you what, it got boring quick. now i'm kind of a "snob" about who i jump with and what we do. i'll jump with any skill level as long as there are set goals for each dive. i want to learn something on every dive or else it IS a waste of my $20. and i find that the more i learn/achieve/acomplish on each dive, the more fun i have!!! see yah up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #39 May 11, 2004 Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #40 May 11, 2004 I'm to the point that I've went back to RW and flying RW camera since I got so burned out on freefly Zoo dives. After about 200 of them I realized that all I had learned in those jumps was to move all over and those skills suck for flying with someone in a very controlled environment. I feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #43 May 11, 2004 Quote I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Oh hell yeah!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #44 May 11, 2004 QuoteIts hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Sorry to hear that Phree, you are obviously freeflying with the wrong people. We have a small posse here in San Marcos that on regular occasions we are building 4 and 8 ways and turning points as well as pieces. Anyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #45 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I'd freefly a lot more if more freeflyers felt that way. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #46 May 11, 2004 QuoteAnyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. But usually only by those hack freeflyers that we've been talking about (hack relative workers do the same when discussing FF - it's about the personalities involved, not the skydiving discipline). Because to them FF is not a challenge, it's just a way for them to try to define themselves. So they have to make negative comparisons to shore up their tiny egos. RW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #47 May 11, 2004 But its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to. This doesn't make it right but in my experience, bellyflyers aren't too socialable. If you keep up to date, my team is sponsoring an intermediate freefly event this weekend to promote competitive freeflying and every year we have a wonderful turn out. The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #48 May 11, 2004 QuoteThe new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Not to mention that you guys do free coaching on weekends that you aren't training. I don't think i have even paid your slot That part i'll fix next time. I have said it before and i will say it over and over. I would have quit skydiving if not for the Rats taking me in and teaching me freeflying. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #49 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to . . . The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. That's a nice note. I'd certainly like to learn from someone with that attitude. But cliches happen in most disciplines. CrW might be the only exception, we'll take anybody, any time, anywhere, any skill level. Lately, in my area, the roles are reversed. The FF'ers are starting to figure out how to get better and want to do their thing and RW is the new haven for newer jumpers. That might just be because of the same attitude, the 4-way teams are doing quite a bit of sharing the last two years, much like the FF'ers had been doing when it was fresh 5-10 years ago. The short of it is, whatever is being freely and cheerfully mentored is usually what jazzes the newbies. I like to think of it as pushing the skill level of the sport up. First basic RW was freely shared, then basic FF, now an emergence of higher level 4-way is moving in, I suspect that high level competitive FF will be right on the tail of that. Total body flight (back, belly, head, sit, etc....) is on it's way if we don't get greedy (sly reference to the coach ratings threads). It's very exciting to be skydiving now. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billo 0 #50 May 11, 2004 QuoteRW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. TRUE DAT! very nice posts of yours in this thread, bill! i've enjoyed reading them and share your opinion on the subject. b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
skipro101 0 #36 May 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteMy view of FF is some structure (if you want) but also a large percentage of just going out and doing whatever. I'm seeing less and less of this. I see it going the way of RW - it started out as fun, challenging enough just to do simple docks. Now, as the teaching methods get better and people are accomplishing more and more I find "if it looks like a grip, it's a grip" dives less and less. Those kind of dives can be great fun with a good group of flyers, but often the good flyers are looking at more structured skydives anyway. Nowdays 90% of the time, I have way more fun on a sucessfully built FF dive than I did/do on "free" dives. Blue ones, Ian I never really thought about it that hard, but i can see what your saying. perhaps when I get good enough to not be estatic about making a dock or two in a sit, I will look for more challenge through doing a preplanned diveflow.... untill then .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #37 May 11, 2004 Quoteperhaps when I get good enough to not be estatic about making a dock or two in a sit, I will look for more challenge through doing a preplanned diveflow.... untill then .... Now you're getting it. It's the same in all the disciplines. You need to decide at what point your skills are good enough that you are tired of zoo loads and want to kick some ass. Use skiing as an analogy. Mucking around in basic sit and FF, or zoo-out RW loads is a lot like a green or blue level skier. Eventually you want to ski the blacks and the bumps. But some skiers will be content to coast down green runs until they die. Good for them, it would cease being fun for a real athlete though. Some people are hacks their entire skydiving career. More power to them if that is what they consider fun. Not for me. Blues ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #38 May 11, 2004 ahhhhhh. that clears up some confusion. ha. split personalities, huh?? kidding! it's clear you "get it"... at least what we are trying to say. and i don't think anybody is trying to tell you how to spend money or what kind of dive you should be doing. i think we all have one universal goal, and that is safety. after that, make of it what you will. but i just spent an entire season doing zoo dives freeflying thinking i was living it up. i'll tell you what, it got boring quick. now i'm kind of a "snob" about who i jump with and what we do. i'll jump with any skill level as long as there are set goals for each dive. i want to learn something on every dive or else it IS a waste of my $20. and i find that the more i learn/achieve/acomplish on each dive, the more fun i have!!! see yah up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #39 May 11, 2004 Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #40 May 11, 2004 I'm to the point that I've went back to RW and flying RW camera since I got so burned out on freefly Zoo dives. After about 200 of them I realized that all I had learned in those jumps was to move all over and those skills suck for flying with someone in a very controlled environment. I feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #43 May 11, 2004 Quote I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Oh hell yeah!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #44 May 11, 2004 QuoteIts hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Sorry to hear that Phree, you are obviously freeflying with the wrong people. We have a small posse here in San Marcos that on regular occasions we are building 4 and 8 ways and turning points as well as pieces. Anyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #45 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I'd freefly a lot more if more freeflyers felt that way. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #46 May 11, 2004 QuoteAnyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. But usually only by those hack freeflyers that we've been talking about (hack relative workers do the same when discussing FF - it's about the personalities involved, not the skydiving discipline). Because to them FF is not a challenge, it's just a way for them to try to define themselves. So they have to make negative comparisons to shore up their tiny egos. RW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #47 May 11, 2004 But its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to. This doesn't make it right but in my experience, bellyflyers aren't too socialable. If you keep up to date, my team is sponsoring an intermediate freefly event this weekend to promote competitive freeflying and every year we have a wonderful turn out. The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #48 May 11, 2004 QuoteThe new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Not to mention that you guys do free coaching on weekends that you aren't training. I don't think i have even paid your slot That part i'll fix next time. I have said it before and i will say it over and over. I would have quit skydiving if not for the Rats taking me in and teaching me freeflying. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #49 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to . . . The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. That's a nice note. I'd certainly like to learn from someone with that attitude. But cliches happen in most disciplines. CrW might be the only exception, we'll take anybody, any time, anywhere, any skill level. Lately, in my area, the roles are reversed. The FF'ers are starting to figure out how to get better and want to do their thing and RW is the new haven for newer jumpers. That might just be because of the same attitude, the 4-way teams are doing quite a bit of sharing the last two years, much like the FF'ers had been doing when it was fresh 5-10 years ago. The short of it is, whatever is being freely and cheerfully mentored is usually what jazzes the newbies. I like to think of it as pushing the skill level of the sport up. First basic RW was freely shared, then basic FF, now an emergence of higher level 4-way is moving in, I suspect that high level competitive FF will be right on the tail of that. Total body flight (back, belly, head, sit, etc....) is on it's way if we don't get greedy (sly reference to the coach ratings threads). It's very exciting to be skydiving now. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billo 0 #50 May 11, 2004 QuoteRW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. TRUE DAT! very nice posts of yours in this thread, bill! i've enjoyed reading them and share your opinion on the subject. b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rehmwa 2 #37 May 11, 2004 Quoteperhaps when I get good enough to not be estatic about making a dock or two in a sit, I will look for more challenge through doing a preplanned diveflow.... untill then .... Now you're getting it. It's the same in all the disciplines. You need to decide at what point your skills are good enough that you are tired of zoo loads and want to kick some ass. Use skiing as an analogy. Mucking around in basic sit and FF, or zoo-out RW loads is a lot like a green or blue level skier. Eventually you want to ski the blacks and the bumps. But some skiers will be content to coast down green runs until they die. Good for them, it would cease being fun for a real athlete though. Some people are hacks their entire skydiving career. More power to them if that is what they consider fun. Not for me. Blues ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #38 May 11, 2004 ahhhhhh. that clears up some confusion. ha. split personalities, huh?? kidding! it's clear you "get it"... at least what we are trying to say. and i don't think anybody is trying to tell you how to spend money or what kind of dive you should be doing. i think we all have one universal goal, and that is safety. after that, make of it what you will. but i just spent an entire season doing zoo dives freeflying thinking i was living it up. i'll tell you what, it got boring quick. now i'm kind of a "snob" about who i jump with and what we do. i'll jump with any skill level as long as there are set goals for each dive. i want to learn something on every dive or else it IS a waste of my $20. and i find that the more i learn/achieve/acomplish on each dive, the more fun i have!!! see yah up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #39 May 11, 2004 Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #40 May 11, 2004 I'm to the point that I've went back to RW and flying RW camera since I got so burned out on freefly Zoo dives. After about 200 of them I realized that all I had learned in those jumps was to move all over and those skills suck for flying with someone in a very controlled environment. I feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #43 May 11, 2004 Quote I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Oh hell yeah!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #44 May 11, 2004 QuoteIts hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Sorry to hear that Phree, you are obviously freeflying with the wrong people. We have a small posse here in San Marcos that on regular occasions we are building 4 and 8 ways and turning points as well as pieces. Anyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #45 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I'd freefly a lot more if more freeflyers felt that way. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #46 May 11, 2004 QuoteAnyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. But usually only by those hack freeflyers that we've been talking about (hack relative workers do the same when discussing FF - it's about the personalities involved, not the skydiving discipline). Because to them FF is not a challenge, it's just a way for them to try to define themselves. So they have to make negative comparisons to shore up their tiny egos. RW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IMGR2 0 #47 May 11, 2004 But its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to. This doesn't make it right but in my experience, bellyflyers aren't too socialable. If you keep up to date, my team is sponsoring an intermediate freefly event this weekend to promote competitive freeflying and every year we have a wonderful turn out. The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #48 May 11, 2004 QuoteThe new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Not to mention that you guys do free coaching on weekends that you aren't training. I don't think i have even paid your slot That part i'll fix next time. I have said it before and i will say it over and over. I would have quit skydiving if not for the Rats taking me in and teaching me freeflying. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #49 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to . . . The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. That's a nice note. I'd certainly like to learn from someone with that attitude. But cliches happen in most disciplines. CrW might be the only exception, we'll take anybody, any time, anywhere, any skill level. Lately, in my area, the roles are reversed. The FF'ers are starting to figure out how to get better and want to do their thing and RW is the new haven for newer jumpers. That might just be because of the same attitude, the 4-way teams are doing quite a bit of sharing the last two years, much like the FF'ers had been doing when it was fresh 5-10 years ago. The short of it is, whatever is being freely and cheerfully mentored is usually what jazzes the newbies. I like to think of it as pushing the skill level of the sport up. First basic RW was freely shared, then basic FF, now an emergence of higher level 4-way is moving in, I suspect that high level competitive FF will be right on the tail of that. Total body flight (back, belly, head, sit, etc....) is on it's way if we don't get greedy (sly reference to the coach ratings threads). It's very exciting to be skydiving now. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billo 0 #50 May 11, 2004 QuoteRW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. TRUE DAT! very nice posts of yours in this thread, bill! i've enjoyed reading them and share your opinion on the subject. b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
PhreeZone 15 #40 May 11, 2004 I'm to the point that I've went back to RW and flying RW camera since I got so burned out on freefly Zoo dives. After about 200 of them I realized that all I had learned in those jumps was to move all over and those skills suck for flying with someone in a very controlled environment. I feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #43 May 11, 2004 Quote I think Phree needs to come play with us at Tecumseh for a weekend. What do you think? Oh hell yeah!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMGR2 0 #44 May 11, 2004 QuoteIts hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Sorry to hear that Phree, you are obviously freeflying with the wrong people. We have a small posse here in San Marcos that on regular occasions we are building 4 and 8 ways and turning points as well as pieces. Anyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteI feel great after looking across a formation and seeing it built, Its hard to feel the same after orbiting around someone for 40 seconds since they did'nt have a plan and just wanted to go goof off. Right on Phree. Honestly, it really drives me nuts when I'll ask someone to jump with me, and when I say "Okay so what're we going to do", they say "We're gonna get out of the plane and fuck around". I hate it when people don't at the very least go over the exit and have a goal on the dive, as simple as a single dock or just having smooth control of proximity. It can be anything, just as long as there is something to be learned or worked on. I'd freefly a lot more if more freeflyers felt that way. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #46 May 11, 2004 QuoteAnyways, I do hear often that RW is easier. But usually only by those hack freeflyers that we've been talking about (hack relative workers do the same when discussing FF - it's about the personalities involved, not the skydiving discipline). Because to them FF is not a challenge, it's just a way for them to try to define themselves. So they have to make negative comparisons to shore up their tiny egos. RW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMGR2 0 #47 May 11, 2004 But its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to. This doesn't make it right but in my experience, bellyflyers aren't too socialable. If you keep up to date, my team is sponsoring an intermediate freefly event this weekend to promote competitive freeflying and every year we have a wonderful turn out. The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #48 May 11, 2004 QuoteThe new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. Not to mention that you guys do free coaching on weekends that you aren't training. I don't think i have even paid your slot That part i'll fix next time. I have said it before and i will say it over and over. I would have quit skydiving if not for the Rats taking me in and teaching me freeflying. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #49 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut its so much fun teasing bellyflyers. Back to the subject, I'm not quite sure why new jumpers come to us. It seems to me that newbies are looking for a cliche to belong to . . . The new freeflyers that participate leave with alot and it makes my team feel good for what we are returning to the freefly community. That's a nice note. I'd certainly like to learn from someone with that attitude. But cliches happen in most disciplines. CrW might be the only exception, we'll take anybody, any time, anywhere, any skill level. Lately, in my area, the roles are reversed. The FF'ers are starting to figure out how to get better and want to do their thing and RW is the new haven for newer jumpers. That might just be because of the same attitude, the 4-way teams are doing quite a bit of sharing the last two years, much like the FF'ers had been doing when it was fresh 5-10 years ago. The short of it is, whatever is being freely and cheerfully mentored is usually what jazzes the newbies. I like to think of it as pushing the skill level of the sport up. First basic RW was freely shared, then basic FF, now an emergence of higher level 4-way is moving in, I suspect that high level competitive FF will be right on the tail of that. Total body flight (back, belly, head, sit, etc....) is on it's way if we don't get greedy (sly reference to the coach ratings threads). It's very exciting to be skydiving now. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billo 0 #50 May 11, 2004 QuoteRW and FF are the same in that if you want to go to the next levels, you have to learn some seriously difficult stuff with high precision. Belittling each other's specialties is adolescent and doesn't help skydiving at all. TRUE DAT! very nice posts of yours in this thread, bill! i've enjoyed reading them and share your opinion on the subject. b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
