stevenblincoe 0 #1 March 23, 2004 Do any of you out there have something to say about tunnel coaching? Have you recieved it? From who? How did they compare? How did they differ? How did it help you? Did it transfer directly to the sky? Did you find it different with your rig on? Did you like it and have fun? Steven Blincoe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #2 March 23, 2004 QuoteDo any of you out there have something to say about tunnel coaching? Yeah, it rocks. Quote Have you recieved it? Yeah Quote From who? The usual skyventure orlando guys. Dan mostly. This was February 2003. BTW, I saw you coaching in there, but never got to meet you. You were working with some guy on upright flying, having him stand on one foot and feel the air to keep himself stationary and upright. That's a damn good drill dude!!! Quote How did it help you? I was one of those guys who had good freefly skills but NO belly skills. I spent an hour and a half on learning to fly belly well. He taught me mantis and precision in my flying. I benefitted SO MUCH from it. The rest of my time (another hour and a half) was all sitfly. It really helped me out on flying really slow, cuz it was before the spiffy new fans. Plus it really improved my freedom of arm movement for hand docks. Because of that tunnel time I can fly without my arms at all, when before I don't think I could have. Quote Did it transfer directly to the sky? I think that was obvious. Quote Did you find it different with your rig on? Bellyflying, not at all, but for sit it sure felt different. Quote Did you like it and have fun? Hell yeah, it was great fun and helped my flying tremendously, and I'll do it again once I can get some money for it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #3 March 23, 2004 QuoteHave you recieved it? Yes, lots QuoteFrom who? Freeflying - Thomas Hughes, Joao Tambor, Fabian, Juliana, Joe Winters, Michael Biederman Belly Flying - Too many to name but here's a few Thomas Hughes, Pete Allum, Chromy, Solly Williams, Joey Jones, Doug Park, Craig Gerard... QuoteHow did they compare? / How did they differ? Everyone has their own unique style of coaching and I've learned a lot from all of them. Done time with too many coaches to really go into all the specifics QuoteHow did it help you? It made me more aware of my body and how each part of my body affects the airflow around me. I was able to take the time to focus on every little thing that I wanted to. QuoteDid it transfer directly to the sky? Other than running / playing on the walls absolutely every bit of flying in there has transferred to the sky. The way I fly in the sky is the same as how I fly in the tunnel, head down in the sky just tends to be at a faster speed... QuoteDid you find it different with your rig on? Backflying is really the only orientation that I've found to be significantly affected by the rig. Belly, Knees, Sit, Stand, HD there's slight differences but not enough for me to think about. QuoteDid you like it and have fun? Tons of fun, every time I'm in there I learn a lot and have tons of fun. You and Sean are looking great in there. See you at the competition in April.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #4 March 24, 2004 QuoteDo any of you out there have something to say about tunnel coaching? Have you recieved it? Yes. From who? From the guys as Skyventure and from instructors(jumpmasters) in my group. How did they compare? In terms of various instructors at Skyventure: Everyone I have encountered has been awesome and helped with my flying, and I was able to start freeflying in the tunnel with only 50 jumps and fool around with backflying after an instructor from CSC showed me the basic position. How did they differ? Different words of advice...in general. How did it help you? Made me quite aware of exactly where I put each limb and the orientation of my body that is required to achieve certain maneuvers and positions. Did it transfer directly to the sky? In terms of the minimal RW that I worked on, yes. But the position I had to get into to FF was a bit odd. Backflying was cool and most all of that transfered. Did you find it different with your rig on? Of course, more weight, but I just try to compensate for the difference and try not to lean forward when I am working on my sit. Did you like it and have fun? DUH! Tunnel time is always fun for me. No matter what I am doing FF, backflying, RW; as long as I am learning and working with great people, I am having a blast. ~R+R~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hkf 0 #5 March 24, 2004 Have you recieved it? Yes From who? Chris Lynch (FFTC Sebastian) How did it help you? Improving sit position, fine control, and did a lot of work on carving Did it transfer directly to the sky? Yep Did you find it different with your rig on? Not Really Did you like it and have fun? Great fun, but 2 hour session shared between 3 was tyring Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewnewell 0 #6 March 24, 2004 I think the tunnel is a very valuable tool that can be used by either novice skydivers just getting started, or by more experienced dudes who would want to perfect a certain drill or manouver. me and my bro's recently did a bunch of time in the orlando tunnel getting some freefly coaching by Max Cohn. We used the tunnel as part of a freefly training camp and were being coached by M ax and the tunnel staff. Max was more hesitant to let us get carried away in the tunnel and was very safety concious. this was for good reason as if one of us had knocked himself in there, it would have jepordised the rest of our training. the tunnel staff were very helpful and were not shy about getting in there and giving us some technical pointers. Just getting in the air for an extended period of time was very helpfull in learning to fly in a more diciplined manner. Also our learning curve was in my opinion enhanced by having a structured programme to follow and a very capable coach to make sure we were sticking to it. I feel the tunnel time did improve us individualy and did make us more diciplined. I think that at the time we were all quite tired and did not really see the benefit of the tunnel time, but I can honestly say that it payed off in the long run. There are obvious differences with tunnel flying and freeflying, kit does make a difference and you find your self allways trying to slow down in the tunnel as opposed to speeding up to do a transition like you would when freeflying. To me tunnel flying and freeflying are like two extreme opposites giving two very simmilar enviroments, maybe Im talkin bu@%*&hit? I thought the tunnel was a blast. but I personaly prefere skydiving dispite all the admin we endure before exit. anyhow Im biased, Im big into tracking!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevenblincoe 0 #7 March 24, 2004 Where you able to learn head down with Max. If you did a lot of time, you should have been able to get to head down. How much time did you do? It should have only taken 3.5 hours to get to head down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #8 March 24, 2004 QuoteIt should have only taken 3.5 hours to get to head down. Do you mean 3.5 hours before the average student starts doing HD on the net or 3.5 hours before being able to fly HD in there?Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewnewell 0 #9 March 25, 2004 Me and the guys did about 3.5 hours each, concentrated on head up and back flying. I went in there with the attitude of doing abit of head up stuff and then getting on me head.unfortunately that was an obvious case of thinking I could run before I could walk. It turned out that my head up stuff was alot worse than I had thought, and after seeing how poor my head up stuff and back flying was, I decided to just crack on with that. It would have been cool to get on my head but I still had a great time on my feet. Ithink it took all of the 3.5 hours to learn how to fly in there comfortably. Maybe with a little more time I would be happy getting on my head, jeez what a pussy! It was cool to see you and Sean doing your thing in there, that was some mental stuff, big respect. P.S. the DVD rocks, cool sound track! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilryno 0 #10 March 29, 2004 My wife and I are planning on heading down to Orlando for the weekend of April 10th to do our first round of tunnel time. She has 10 jumps and I have 60 (but I suck...mostly solo jumps). We want to purchase 30 mins a piece to get as good as we possibly can while we're there. Any pointers to maximize our training? Thanks. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #11 March 29, 2004 Steve, can you explain why it takes so long in the tunnel to get head-down? 3.5 hours has got to be equal to about 250 jumps right? That seems like a long time to pick it up at all. I wonder if this is about how long it takes in the air too. Clear me up if you can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewnewell 0 #12 March 29, 2004 The tunnel is an exellent tool and used in conjunction with coaching{ flat, or freefly} can really speed up your progression. Be realistic about what you want to achieve in the time you've allocated your self. make a list of the things you want to improve on and only work on one or two them in a session. use mental visulisation in your down time on the bench to go through what your gonna do. go over and over it in your head just as you would in the air craft, no point wasting time in the air thinking " what should I do next". If ya real serious get a coach, out line your goals to him or her and let them worry about the technical side, you just concentrate on the instructions/flying. failing getting a coach you can allways approach one of the tunnel staff, they should be willing to help you out. I would recommend Steve Blinko and Sean McCormac if your interested in getting some freefly coaching, they run a tunnel programme in conjunction with freefly coaching at lake wales, check those dudes out. Keep a open mind, have fun and stay away from them walls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #13 March 29, 2004 QuoteSteve, can you explain why it takes so long in the tunnel to get head-down? 3.5 hours has got to be equal to about 250 jumps right? That seems like a long time to pick it up at all. I wonder if this is about how long it takes in the air too. Clear me up if you can. In the wind tunnel (at least the SkyVenture wind tunnels) you have to follow a progression. You need to show control on your belly before they'll let you get on your back, you need to show control on your back before sitting and need to show control sitting before you can start HD on the net. They do this so that you have positions you can bail to. If you are learning to sit fly in there without knowing how to back fly and you lean back too far guess what - you're on your back. If you don't know how to back fly this could be a dangerous situation as the wind speeds are high and the walls are hard. Everything is even more critical with HD since small movements create a lot of motion and everything happens very fast. When you start flying HD in there you start on the net with a tunnel instructor holding on to you. There are only a few tunnel coaches who can do this so if you're planning on flying HD in there make sure they know in advance so they can have the proper staff there for you. As you show that you are in control they will let go with one hand and move to the side to minimize the effect of their burble on your flying. Once you show control that way they will let go of you and you can start working on lifting yourself up off the net and flying. Flying HD in the tunnel takes a lot of time ($$$) and patience. It is done this way for your safety. This does not eliminate the risks but does a good job of minimizing them. There are a lot of people who have hurt / broken themselves trying to fly HD in the tunnel. I hope this clears some things up for you Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirochristie 0 #14 March 29, 2004 Yeah. I have. SkyVenture-Orlando. It was fun (lots). I went just to try it, and did better in Sit than RW. I don`t remember his name, but he was ok. I mean, I didn`t go to the tunnel for coachings on FF, I just went in right after spending the day in Islands of Adventure. So,... But I do have a question on FF Coaching in tunnels I know the tunnel lets you relax in "freefall" because you don`t have to pull your parachute, right? No hitting no ground or anything like that, so you are stress free and able to focus on FF. If someone learns to FF in a tunnel, when they get back to the air (REAL AIR ), can they fly "normal". What I mean by this is: Tunnel time is great, but you do need real freefall too or no? If you are being coached only in a tunnel, can you FF relative to others in freefall? It is not the same, is it? Or can you compare it to real freefall due to the power the tunnels (some of them) now have? Do you understand...LiquidSky @(^_^)@ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #15 March 29, 2004 QuoteTunnel time is great, but you do need real freefall too or no? Yes, there are certain things that you cannot do in the tunnel like tracking, standing or a really fast HD. You can practice how to do them in tunnel but do not get the full effect. QuoteIf you are being coached only in a tunnel, can you FF relative to others in freefall? Yes, if you can fly relative in the tunnel than you can fly relative in freefall. Most time in the tunnel is either spent solo or flying relative so that is exactly what you are practicing. QuoteIt is not the same, is it? Flying in the tunnel (the SkyVenture Orlando one at least) is not the same as freefall. The air is not as "clean," The airspeed will change slightly while you are flying and it is also affected by weather conditions. There is "dead air" near the walls in the tunnel and putting multiple people inside the tunnel changes the airflow. I pretty much learned how to fly head down in the tunnel. I have about 50 HD jumps in the air and have been on a succesful 9 way (that I dove to) as well as multi-point 4 ways all due to the tunnel. The biggest difference that I found between the tunnel and the sky was my point of reference - I had none in the sky. I was used to the walls in the tunnel and would rely on them for reference. I was strange when I started doing HD jumps in the air with no walls. When I was close to people it was fine but if we got separated I'd fly like crap. Those are the kinds of things that you can only really work on in the air. Hope that helped, feel free to PM me if you have any tunnel specific questions not related to this thread. Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #16 March 30, 2004 Do any of you out there have something to say about tunnel coaching? It ROCKS... Have you recieved it? Yes. From who? Juliana and Fabian were coaching in a FF tunnel camp in Orlando. I asked to be coached by Juliana as she is a female and about my size. How did they compare? I fly on my belly, so that was my first and only experience learning to FF. How did they differ? ---- How did it help you? As I've stated, I am a belly flyer, so I learned from scratch how to back fly, sitfly and fly relative in a sit. I can move forward, backward, up and down. My docking and my turns are there, but they are a bit shaky. I have to work on them some more. I really took to back flying quickly, though. Did it transfer directly to the sky? I cannot FF in the sky with my rig. My harness is 14", but the lateral and leg straps are still too big for my frame. I am pretty tiny (5 ft. and 95 lbs.) and nothing (except for the rigs with tiny canopies) fits me properly. When I downsize my canopy small enough and get a custom made rig, then I will FF in the sky, too. The tunnel let me experience FFing without having to wait until I have a rig that will fit me. That is a huge PLUS for someone my size! Did you find it different with your rig on? --- Did you like it and have fun? I LOVED it! After I get a rig to fit me, later in the year, I will try to take another FF tunnel camp and will also try to get coaching in the sky to work on my FF skills all around. I love RW (4-way), but I also want to be able to freefly with my FF sky friends. When I am ready to try headdown someday, I want to practice in the tunnel, as well. It will be awesome for me because I am so small and light! ~ Edited: I have also taken an Airspeed tunnel camp prior to the FF tunnel camp, and I can tell you that this has GREATLY helped my belly flying skills! (I am taking another Airspeed tunnel camp soon.) I only answered these questions regarding the tunnel coaching for freeflying as this question was posed in the FF forum. I've added a pic of my FF tunnel coaches and myself! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fedykin 0 #17 April 3, 2004 i got on my head in under 2 hours, but spend about 30 minutes doing the back flips/layouts,, why do they make you do that?, i was getting severely frustrated and was starting to loose my temper with my coaches and act like a prick to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #18 April 4, 2004 You spend a lot of time on back flips and layouts so that when you are learning HD in there and fall off your head you know how to recover. It's all about safety. Keep in mind that if you loose your temper and act like a prick to your coaches, chances are they will not be helping you as much and it will take you longer to do things and learn less. It's probably better to just ask your coach why you are doing something...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #19 June 14, 2004 yes - I've received it (this past weekend!) Jon Pinyon and Kyle Stark ran it for 6 local jumpers. Really helped me get in touch with where my sit needed to be, and how to better control instability. As for how it compares to the sky, and is it different with my rig on - we're about to find out this weekend...CAN'T WAIT!!! Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjuggler 0 #20 June 14, 2004 I have about 2.5 hrs, all coached by Fabian and Joao. They were bad arse coaches, i really enjoyed their positive coaching mentality. I also like the fact that if you trusted them, they would teach you to fly. What I mean by that, is they didn't just stick me in set freefly positions and go from there, they made me build up my awareness and muscle memory experience of all positions. They also had endless amounts of drills for similar skills, so I never felt like I got bogged down, I could always try a different exercise for the same skill. I also really enjoyed watching them fly on their own and together with people. I learnt alot from just watching them. I found they were both very professional in briefings, and debriefings. Joao's debriefs in particular were great!!! The tunnel time was great, I think it helps alot with freefly philosphy, moving where you want to go, and reckonising the different positions or more importantly the different inputs to manipulate the air as you see fit. I loved it so much, despite having the opinon that the positions are a little different. As for comparisons with the air, I am undecided. But as I say, the concept of manipulating the air was most noticable for me. Also I enjoyed the input / output nature of the confined space, as well as the preciceness required in the tunnel. It was also noticable that the good tunnel flyers, could fly all the positions / transitions / moves very slow indeed, nothing was rushed, and the good people have a certain flow to their flying. This I like very much and am keen to work on! All in all the tunnel rocked, as did the people who coached me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindcool 0 #21 June 21, 2004 i've noticed that all the posts here relates to Orlando Windtunnel. So i'll add another question here: Have anyone tried the FreeFly Camps at Perris? I'm considering coming to the states and taking one of those camps and i'd love to hear comments. all i can say is that it sounds pretty cool, the Alchemy and the Flyboys coach there.... Thanks Guys! Shaggy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #22 June 28, 2004 IT WORKS!!! First jump out I hit my sit and NAILED IT for the whole dive...no backsliding, no instability, or anything!! I've also nailed a great stand too - relative for a whole skydive with H/D flyers (that was freaking AWESOME!!) Wind tunnel coaching WORKS...no matter where you go!! Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
