dhammons 0 #1 August 12, 2003 I have a friend (like my brother) at the DZ that has had 3 mals on his Colbalt 95, THREE WEEKENDS IN A ROW!!! I'm very concerned for him and was wondering if anyone has had similar experiences with a Cobalt? I was actually thinking about getting one for myself, but not sure now. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks. "Never eat more than you can lift!" Miss Piggy ---------------------------------------------------- "Never eat more than you can lift!" Miss Piggy "Never fall faster than your Guardian Angel can fly." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #2 August 12, 2003 Yes, I would advise that your friend either get a new packer or figure out what he himself is doing to that canopy to get such a high malfunction rate. I jumped four different Cobalts as my main for three years and only once took a ride (on a wingsuit flight). Is your friend's canopy in trim? Has he even checked to see if it is? Any number of things can cause a malfunction, but having three in three weeks is odd. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petetheladd 0 #3 August 12, 2003 Quotehaving three in three weeks is odd. An understatement if I ever seen one Is this a new canopy - assuming it is. Is his packer a generally accepted knows what he/she is doing type of guy ? Rigger checked out his canopy for trim etc ? Instructor talked to him about body position. At least, he's getting his reserve drills down pat though, enough is enough, time to kill the problem No, Not without incident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhammons 0 #4 August 12, 2003 Jumper has 1500+ jumps ... canopy is about a year old ... has at least 200 jumps on it ... he is a cameraman at the DZ ... packs himself ... not sure about body position ... have seen his videos, but can't see anything strange ... only he knows!!!! ---------------------------------------------------- "Never eat more than you can lift!" Miss Piggy "Never fall faster than your Guardian Angel can fly." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #5 August 12, 2003 IMHO Atair makes some of the worst canopies on the market. I have never jumped one but I have had way more negative feedback from my customers then good. The 2 stage opening that they have is not really as important as some people think (a lot of people cut away from them). We have a bunch of Cobalts that people bought new and put 10 to 15 jumps on and have turned right around and tried to sell them used and they are still sitting there on the shelf. Check out the Sabre 2 form PD or the Pilot from Aerodyne. Both are excellent canopies that open well and land even better. I am not sponsored by wither one of them and still say they are the best two intermediate canopies on the market. The Sabre 2 has been around a while and costs around 1400.00 to 1600.00 depending on the size. The Pilot costs 1359.15 regardless of the size. It will take about 5-6 weekd for a custom Pilot and about 9 weeks for a custom Sabre 2.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobalt120 0 #6 August 12, 2003 200+ jump on my cobalt 120 1 reserve ride did have line twist was flying straight but Kick hard to undo line twist and made the canopy dove and spin except that opening it have been good to me. P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #7 August 13, 2003 I did until today hundreds of jumps in Atair canopys Cobalt and Impulse (equal to cobalt) 85, 75 and 120 I just made one cut away with the 85 when it tested a main bag without line stows, I opened one toggle accidental when it tried to clear the two line twists. I had no any hard openning. Today I still consider these canopys the best of the world in opennings and landings Even so, any canopy, especially if it is elliptical, when not well driven or packed can work badly I know person that made three reserves rides in 10 jumps with a new stilleto 120, for reasons of line twists... I also know who did cut away with canopys light loaded a spectre 107 and PD 170 and other canopys because spin when had line twists. In my experience, I know some malfuncions that per times are also psychological... Per times the positive or negative feedeback has also to do with the commercial interests of each one. The best feedbeck in my opinion is of a good pilot that jumped to canopy (not for hearing to say) and others canopys and don't be sponsored by the maker and that not just a only a dealer of the some canopys Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #8 August 13, 2003 QuoteIMHO Atair makes some of the worst canopies on the market. I have never jumped one .... hmmmm... 300 jumps on my Cobalt 105. No mals. No hard openings, even without slowing down after freeflying. Best canopy I've owned or jumped. (And those are jumps I made myself, not just ones I heard someone else talk about.) Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallin14 0 #9 August 13, 2003 If you've never jumped any of them, than I am sorry to say it but you have no business saying they make some of the worst canopies on the market. The sabre 2 and pilot open and land better huh? And you know this how??? Someone told told you? You watched someone land one better? You can't say they are the best beacuse you have nothing to compare them to. Quit bashing Atair and actually try one before you form an opinion and make a statement based on other people's experiences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedformula 0 #10 August 13, 2003 hahaha freefalling, you're right man, people tend to "playback" what they hear, this dude hasnt jumped a cobalt yet, and he's spraying beta regarding this canopy. He sounds like his working the gear store counter but that's not enough license to issue an opinion, regarding a canopy Quote that he hasnt even put on his back once. pleazz dude , you need to be pied . :) Keeping it real 22x7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #11 August 13, 2003 This thead is a discussion about Cobalt openings, not how valid someone's opinion is. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freefallin14 0 #12 August 13, 2003 Sorry Hook, but this guy is bs. Making that strong of a statement (Atair makes some of the worst canopies on the market) without ever jumping one is complete crap. Now add in the fact that he is obviously telling other jumpers, other jumpers who might take his word since he works in a gear store, that really ticks me off. But since you are correct as usual in saying this is a cobalt opening thread I will go on to say that my 120 has been sweet. I have about 300 on it. The openings have actually seemed to get better over time. In those 300, I had 2 that really slammed me. Like base canopy opening. I have no idea what caused them. But that hasn't happened in over 150 jumps. The openings did take some getting used to, but are great. I have a lot of good video of mine opening and if I ever figure out how to post it I will. They are an elliptical canopy and need to flown through the openings. Bad body position caused my only real problems with it. 3 times early on I had line twist start to spin the canopy but I got out of it before things got real ugly. I have never needed to chop it. I pack the nose wide open and roll the tail quite a bit. I am considering getting the canopy H-Mod'ed. I am still considering this but not because of opening issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #13 August 13, 2003 Since you said the "H" word, let me just add that the originator of "the Howard mod", Howard Adams, now works at The Jumpshack in Deland, FL. That said, my H-mod 75 Cobalt was a great opening canopy, right up to the point that it got very out of trim from pond swooping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowflake 0 #14 August 13, 2003 250 + jumps on a [email protected]:1. One mal which was my fault (slinks + no bumpers=bad). I put a few jumps on a Sabre 2 150 openings were nice it was a little faster, but the Cobalt has a lot more bottom end flare IMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites underdog 0 #15 August 14, 2003 500 on a 120 loaded at 1.8 to 1, almost every jump on it was with a camera on my head. 2 cutaways due to line twists that loaded the risers unevenly. i think it's one of the best canopies on the market Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #16 August 14, 2003 Snowflake and i got our cobalts about a month apart. I have roughly 250 jumps on mine and i freakin love it. Never chopped it, had one twist in the lines once. Openings are extremely soft and predictable. Body position in the harness during opening is a big factor on these canopies(as with any elliptical) Bottom end is tremendous, i jumped a stilleto just to compare and it wasn't even close. Like i always say, Atair does NOT sponsor me, i don't get anything from them in any way, i jump their canopies because i WANT to. I would buy another cobalt in a heartbeat. By the way, Dominic, you got any blue 120's or 105's on that list CHEAP??? Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites voodew1 0 #17 August 14, 2003 250 jumps or more on a cobalt 120---when the canopy was new it opened brisk. At about 30 jumps it started to snivel like you wouldn't believe, my deployment sequence is pull grab risers toggles or anything and pull the shit out of it until it opens. Consistantly 1000' or more. This used to scary me now I can turn 1 more point during the opening. The canopy flies great and is very forgiving--if you front riser turn to low alittle toggle input pulls you out. This canopy will bring you back from a very long spot. I would buy another cobalt--As for mals--had half a dozen spinning diving line twists which were cured by grabbing cutaway handle and putting body position into a neutral postion--spin and dive would stop and I was able to kick out with out pulling the handle The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyFlyer 0 #18 August 16, 2003 200+ jumps on my Cobalt 95 (w/l 1.8) and love it. No mals, opens well with my wingsuit and swoops great. Also a big fan of the Troll, both vented and non-vented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #19 August 16, 2003 I just went and checked the classifieds for mains. There is a 'Cobalt wanted' ad on the first page, but the first 'Cobalt for sale' ad is on the third page (and that one has 800 jumps on it). I haven't flown one (yet), but as an observation if Atair was making the worst canopies in the world, their owners don't seem to be in an awful hurry to stop jumping them and get rid of them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #20 August 16, 2003 QuoteSince you said the "H" word, let me just add that the originator of "the Howard mod", Howard Adams, now works at The Jumpshack in Deland, FL. That said, my H-mod 75 Cobalt was a great opening canopy, right up to the point that it got very out of trim from pond swooping. Chuck is that the same Howard that went on a few wingsuit jumps with us, hung out with the jumpshack raskals at WFFC? And now back to our regularly scheduled topic: I've got 200+ jumps on 5 different cobalts at wingloadings from 1:3 to 1:6. Even one of the offending canopies in the inventory spoken about above. They all opened as good as my old spectre, had more bottom end than the sabre 2 I demoed. will get me back from some very long spots. I use them for wingsuit jumps, night jumps etc. Have had line twists a few times that the canopy readily flys out of easily. But it is a fully elliptical and it must be deployed and flown accordingly. Non symetrical deployments will provide unwanted suprises. In defense of Dominic, I truely believe many of his customers do not like the cobalt. In attair's defense I believe the reasons are more personal than aerodynamic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites f1freak 0 #21 August 17, 2003 QuoteI just went and checked the classifieds for mains. There is a 'Cobalt wanted' ad on the first page, but the first 'Cobalt for sale' ad is on the third page (and that one has 800 jumps on it). And that one is only going because i am downsizing.... I love my Cobalt 120, I have had no problems at all.HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DBCOOPER 1 #22 August 21, 2003 Quote250 + jumps on a [email protected]:1. Little over a 100,on a 150, 1.3:1.Zero issues,super landings,even at Lost Prairie with the density altitude at 7500 ft.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freefallin14 0 #23 August 22, 2003 Just got my 120 back from Joe Bennett at Skydive Monroe after having the H-mod done. Price was $150 plus shipping back. He got it on tuesday and it was back here this morning (friday) in Chicago. The works looks very good, and I am off to the dropzone for the weekend in a couple minutes. I will post a review after I get some jumps on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dhammons 0 #24 September 9, 2003 My friend had ANOTHER cut on his cobalt this last weekend. I told him I think it's time for him to give up the canopy for good. ---------------------------------------------------- "Never eat more than you can lift!" Miss Piggy "Never fall faster than your Guardian Angel can fly." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites voodew1 0 #25 September 9, 2003 The causes of malfunctions on any canopy are 1 unstability at pull time 2 poor packing 3 worn out gear Maybe he should refer to these before blaming any canopy. The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Hooknswoop 19 #11 August 13, 2003 This thead is a discussion about Cobalt openings, not how valid someone's opinion is. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallin14 0 #12 August 13, 2003 Sorry Hook, but this guy is bs. Making that strong of a statement (Atair makes some of the worst canopies on the market) without ever jumping one is complete crap. Now add in the fact that he is obviously telling other jumpers, other jumpers who might take his word since he works in a gear store, that really ticks me off. But since you are correct as usual in saying this is a cobalt opening thread I will go on to say that my 120 has been sweet. I have about 300 on it. The openings have actually seemed to get better over time. In those 300, I had 2 that really slammed me. Like base canopy opening. I have no idea what caused them. But that hasn't happened in over 150 jumps. The openings did take some getting used to, but are great. I have a lot of good video of mine opening and if I ever figure out how to post it I will. They are an elliptical canopy and need to flown through the openings. Bad body position caused my only real problems with it. 3 times early on I had line twist start to spin the canopy but I got out of it before things got real ugly. I have never needed to chop it. I pack the nose wide open and roll the tail quite a bit. I am considering getting the canopy H-Mod'ed. I am still considering this but not because of opening issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #13 August 13, 2003 Since you said the "H" word, let me just add that the originator of "the Howard mod", Howard Adams, now works at The Jumpshack in Deland, FL. That said, my H-mod 75 Cobalt was a great opening canopy, right up to the point that it got very out of trim from pond swooping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #14 August 13, 2003 250 + jumps on a [email protected]:1. One mal which was my fault (slinks + no bumpers=bad). I put a few jumps on a Sabre 2 150 openings were nice it was a little faster, but the Cobalt has a lot more bottom end flare IMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
underdog 0 #15 August 14, 2003 500 on a 120 loaded at 1.8 to 1, almost every jump on it was with a camera on my head. 2 cutaways due to line twists that loaded the risers unevenly. i think it's one of the best canopies on the market Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #16 August 14, 2003 Snowflake and i got our cobalts about a month apart. I have roughly 250 jumps on mine and i freakin love it. Never chopped it, had one twist in the lines once. Openings are extremely soft and predictable. Body position in the harness during opening is a big factor on these canopies(as with any elliptical) Bottom end is tremendous, i jumped a stilleto just to compare and it wasn't even close. Like i always say, Atair does NOT sponsor me, i don't get anything from them in any way, i jump their canopies because i WANT to. I would buy another cobalt in a heartbeat. By the way, Dominic, you got any blue 120's or 105's on that list CHEAP??? Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #17 August 14, 2003 250 jumps or more on a cobalt 120---when the canopy was new it opened brisk. At about 30 jumps it started to snivel like you wouldn't believe, my deployment sequence is pull grab risers toggles or anything and pull the shit out of it until it opens. Consistantly 1000' or more. This used to scary me now I can turn 1 more point during the opening. The canopy flies great and is very forgiving--if you front riser turn to low alittle toggle input pulls you out. This canopy will bring you back from a very long spot. I would buy another cobalt--As for mals--had half a dozen spinning diving line twists which were cured by grabbing cutaway handle and putting body position into a neutral postion--spin and dive would stop and I was able to kick out with out pulling the handle The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyFlyer 0 #18 August 16, 2003 200+ jumps on my Cobalt 95 (w/l 1.8) and love it. No mals, opens well with my wingsuit and swoops great. Also a big fan of the Troll, both vented and non-vented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #19 August 16, 2003 I just went and checked the classifieds for mains. There is a 'Cobalt wanted' ad on the first page, but the first 'Cobalt for sale' ad is on the third page (and that one has 800 jumps on it). I haven't flown one (yet), but as an observation if Atair was making the worst canopies in the world, their owners don't seem to be in an awful hurry to stop jumping them and get rid of them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #20 August 16, 2003 QuoteSince you said the "H" word, let me just add that the originator of "the Howard mod", Howard Adams, now works at The Jumpshack in Deland, FL. That said, my H-mod 75 Cobalt was a great opening canopy, right up to the point that it got very out of trim from pond swooping. Chuck is that the same Howard that went on a few wingsuit jumps with us, hung out with the jumpshack raskals at WFFC? And now back to our regularly scheduled topic: I've got 200+ jumps on 5 different cobalts at wingloadings from 1:3 to 1:6. Even one of the offending canopies in the inventory spoken about above. They all opened as good as my old spectre, had more bottom end than the sabre 2 I demoed. will get me back from some very long spots. I use them for wingsuit jumps, night jumps etc. Have had line twists a few times that the canopy readily flys out of easily. But it is a fully elliptical and it must be deployed and flown accordingly. Non symetrical deployments will provide unwanted suprises. In defense of Dominic, I truely believe many of his customers do not like the cobalt. In attair's defense I believe the reasons are more personal than aerodynamic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #21 August 17, 2003 QuoteI just went and checked the classifieds for mains. There is a 'Cobalt wanted' ad on the first page, but the first 'Cobalt for sale' ad is on the third page (and that one has 800 jumps on it). And that one is only going because i am downsizing.... I love my Cobalt 120, I have had no problems at all.HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #22 August 21, 2003 Quote250 + jumps on a [email protected]:1. Little over a 100,on a 150, 1.3:1.Zero issues,super landings,even at Lost Prairie with the density altitude at 7500 ft.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallin14 0 #23 August 22, 2003 Just got my 120 back from Joe Bennett at Skydive Monroe after having the H-mod done. Price was $150 plus shipping back. He got it on tuesday and it was back here this morning (friday) in Chicago. The works looks very good, and I am off to the dropzone for the weekend in a couple minutes. I will post a review after I get some jumps on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhammons 0 #24 September 9, 2003 My friend had ANOTHER cut on his cobalt this last weekend. I told him I think it's time for him to give up the canopy for good. ---------------------------------------------------- "Never eat more than you can lift!" Miss Piggy "Never fall faster than your Guardian Angel can fly." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #25 September 9, 2003 The causes of malfunctions on any canopy are 1 unstability at pull time 2 poor packing 3 worn out gear Maybe he should refer to these before blaming any canopy. The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
