Levin 0 #26 September 24, 2003 it's not dieing out. i'm just taking my time at the moment to be sure that it is done right. shouldn't be much longer. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #27 September 25, 2003 just kidding... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skynole 0 #28 September 25, 2003 Just wondering why you haven't answered my earlier post. I felt it was a valid question because it's definitely one of the issues with Olav's AD Licensing system... QuoteOne question though - maybe I missed it or don't remember reading it - but who would "govern" the ballmasters/coaches? Who will administer their qualifications? Will there be (similiar to USPA) "freeflying I/E's"? Sorry in advance if you were just waiting to answer this in your write-up that you are working on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #29 September 25, 2003 sorry i missed your question. actually part of it i've already ansered in the other thread. Quotewho would "govern" the ballmasters/coaches? this one i know i've answered already. it will be up to the freefly community in general to police the coaches/ballmasters. QuoteWho will administer their qualifications? i'm still kinda pondering this one. but the answer will be the simplest yet effective method i (or anybody else once it's posted) can think of. For example to ballmaster you will have to hold one of the higher end licenses and have somekind of endorsement from a dz. only problem with that is if a dz endorses it then it could possible make them liable. but i'm sure there will be an easy sollution. QuoteWill there be (similiar to USPA) "freeflying I/E's no, that's too bureaucratic Levin AeRodeo Freefly vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #30 September 26, 2003 Quote Quotewho would "govern" the ballmasters/coaches this one i know i've answered already. it will be up to the freefly community in general to police the coaches/ballmasters.? How is that going to work exactly?? QuoteWho will administer their qualifications? i'm still kinda pondering this one. but the answer will be the simplest yet effective method i (or anybody else once it's posted) can think of. For example to ballmaster you will have to hold one of the higher end licenses and have somekind of endorsement from a dz. only problem with that is if a dz endorses it then it could possible make them liable. but i'm sure there will be an easy sollution. Perhaps it should be endorsed by another higher end RF license holder? And to stop two guys from just signing each other's license, set it up so that whoever signed yours, you can't sign that persons. I know that's a really complicated way of stating it, I hope you guys understand my bad english...... Also, I don't think an endorsement from a dz would work simply because of one fact: There are LOTS of DZ's (like mine) at which skyballs are not allowed. Therefore, they would have no reason, and would probably refuse to endorse such a license, and you'd have to travel elsewhere just to get a signature. What does what sound like................... QuoteWill there be (similiar to USPA) "freeflying I/E's no, that's too bureaucratic I completely agree. Oh, and Vertifly, I thought you were gonna put in a special hidden message for us!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #31 October 4, 2003 Any updates on this subject yet??? Just checkin.... Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chrisky 0 #32 October 4, 2003 Now, i'd go for a poll for the name. I think Rebel Freefly sounds kinda cool, but it's kinda "be a rebel for just being one", which is uncool... I think Universal FF License would be ok, but it sound a bit like beeing the only "true" thing out there, so i don't really prefer it. VRW also narrows it down in my POV. I'll try and think of something myself, then post it here... Just critizism from me so far... The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflyanvil 0 #33 October 4, 2003 how bout instead of callin' it a license, you call it a "CoP "certificate of proficiency. FFCoP.Vid "stons fal, evrysing fals, but doesnt on purpos change its flite pas an positioning..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chrisky 0 #34 October 5, 2003 Or maybe just Freefly Proficiency. Like having Freefly Proficiency Grade A, B and C or whatever. FFP sounds good to me...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Levin 0 #35 October 8, 2003 QuoteAny updates on this subject yet??? Just checkin.... not quite yet, but check back soon. i'll try not to keep ya waiting much longer. Levin AeRodeo Freefly vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #36 October 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteI think that everyone thinks this is a good idea. Think again. This reeks of Olav Zipser all over again. Privately run "licensing" organizations are bad ideas and hold no weight whatsoever, no matter what discipline you are talking about. While not having an AD rating kept you out of Space Games, not too many people cared about supporting Olav and his underlings anyway so it had no real effect on the sport as a whole in the end. People, soon enough, tired of paying an individual for the "opportunity" to jump with him, so now he and his system is passe. I liken that program to the Skydive University Coach rating; not at all applicable on the great majority of US dropzones without other, proper, USPA ratings. To that end, not having one of your private "licenses" is going to stop any freeflyer from getting on a load at a proper dropzone which offers free load organizing. Like you said, the honor system would totally be in effect, but only right up to the point where you either perform or fail to perform as advertised on your first jump with a new group. Your system is redundant in my opinion. On a separate but even grander scale, several years ago the fledgeling US Skydiver Association never got more than a curory glance, even though it was proposed as a cheaper, less burocratic alternative to USPA (much like you can choose between PADI, NAUI, and YMCA ratings in SCUBA diving). It never got off the ground because it really didn't offer any particular benefit, plus you still had to be a USPA member to skydive most places anyway. What you are proposing might work at your dropzone and those you can convince to follow your business template, but I can tell you as a dropzone school manager that it would not fly on my DZ. What you are proposing would require total cooperation, but if total cooperation were required, then USPA would be the one mandating it, not you (as a private individual) nor whatever consortium you propose. As in "flat" flying, USPA already has awards for 3D achievement. Look forward to new "real" USPA specific instructional ratings in the near future. I suspect that both wingsuit and freefly instructional ratings are on the way. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/SL/TM/BM-I, PRO, S&TA Raeford Parachute Center Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunnerl 0 #37 October 10, 2003 Quoteto - not having an ad keeps you out of space games - it is totally not true that having no ad license keeps you out of space games. ad license is just required for the ad-challenge (you jump with a ball and do tranistions - you should have an ad) and for the indy 500. Freefly Team, Freestyle, Skysurf and Tracking Race requires NO AD license. And as far as USPA didn't come up with any freefly good ratings yet - AD license system is in my oppinion the only proper test yet. it gives me the secureness of jumping with people who don't move around in head down and proofed their skills in a high stressing test. in my oppinion we all shouldn't work against each other and everyone wants to try a new way. experience in freefly and developing freefly is a knowledge we all can learn and profit from! we dont have to come up with a new way and everything before is just shit - uspa, private guys, ... whatever - we should work together - and try to make our sport as safe as possible. everybody is good in talking but nobody came up yet with a similar good system than the ad - i train for that - to give other freeflyers soon the proof that i can fly safely with them. uspa and you guys and olav and everybody - if we work together not against and find out who is the best - than we would be a community and we could really support our sport proper and develop the human flight. peace guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflyanvil 0 #38 October 12, 2003 >>experience in freefly and developing freefly is a knowledge we all can learn and profit from!<< umm, what exactly do you mean by this?Vid "stons fal, evrysing fals, but doesnt on purpos change its flite pas an positioning..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunnerl 0 #39 October 13, 2003 i mean the process the 1st school of modern skyflying went through to develop freefly and a first real freefly license system all over the world. i am sure even they had some problems and did maybe some mistakes while developing this (and our sport). so if you guys want a better licensing system you are not nessesarily forced to go through the same by just - for example - talking to them, learn from them (they did definitely some good work the last ... years) and develop the sport as a comunity like freeflyers should be. (at least i experienced freeflyers like that). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chrisky 0 #40 October 14, 2003 Sorry, but imho the ad is not a real licence. We're talking about a licencing system to show different levels of freefly proficiency. This starts of with maybe a good stable sit. a person who can jump in a stable, controlled sit can be safe to go with some others, but he's no good in a hd dive. where's an ad good here??? Not at all. One can do a safe ff jump w/o going hd and having an ad license. But you can't tell the proficiency of the new kid on the dz from them telling you "oh, i can sit", and that is the point. The level required for the ad is so high that you know that an ad license holder can do pretty much everything in the air, but what about that 200-sitflies working-really-good-headup people? The ad doesn't cover them... Apart from that, it is not very cooperative to have to travel to someones accidental place of beeing to be able to get a license of some sort, imho.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunnerl 0 #41 October 14, 2003 that is all true what you say - i just think the way of working against each other is probably not the best. (the whole discussion seemed to be a bit agressive and just a contra ad thing - ad is a good thing! why not? - and its voluntary - not even reqired for space games.) but moreover to your license: yes it would be definitely good to know always the skills level of the person you jump with. but its not realistic (just in my oppinion) to have licenses for that. headdown bigways require a certain proof - i would like to have it if i would go for a hd big way with people i dont know - its fast, its dangerous, little mistakes could hurt you badly. - so the ad is perfect for it. that you have to go and find an olav instructor might kind of sock but they become more (the skills level in freefly increases way faster now - there are more good people) but if i wanna do it - i can proof it with a ball - a ballmaster SHOULD be a real one - you cant find ballmasters with the skills on every dropzone anyways. so that would be a good start to work together in the freefly scene to increase the number of ad instructors. (what might cost but also could be a income afterwards..at least i think so). for sitflying i dont know - i think it is not that dangerous as long as they stay in sit - i did that with 30 jumps on a 4 way and it worked - its more i think a matter of communication between skydivers - make sure that you talk to the people before you jump with them (what probably every freeflyer does) - ask and talk about your skillslevel - i take persons with 30 jumps with me to sitfly if they wanna try.. but than i am aware and would move anytime. and moreover: more and more official licencing organisations of countries include and start developing these licenses already. ask them where they are - maybe they are really thankful for help and good advise cause i am sure you guys have a lot of good ideas and if everybody thinks about what we are doing we could develop our sport all together - i think its cool. but as i said its just my oppinion - tell me if i think wrong!! have fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chrisky 0 #42 October 14, 2003 For bigway hd or vrw the ad may be good, but if you think a headup dive is (or can't be) fast and dangerous, think again. I'm not against the ad, all i say it doen't really tell you the jumpers level below "top flyer". That's why it's mostly useless to the majority of beginners/intermediates out there whom a system of proficiency (lik the a-d US licences) would help...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunnerl 0 #43 October 14, 2003 yes as i said you are right - but !!!! i never said that head up freeflying is not dangerous!!!! i said it is less dangerous to make a sitfly together than a headdown bigway - or at least i would like to have a proof of a certain level for doing hd together - that is at least what i meant. ratings would be good to have - but not too much paperwork in freeflying, please ... talk first, be honest, brief good, dont make risky or too fast things on your first jump with somebody new or unexperienced, separate good, be aware, look where you are, look where the others are, .. these things are more important ..and have fun. but if you feel better if somebody proofes it with another license - it makes sense - i just think its not realistic. and i - personally rather talk to them and try in a little fun sitfly with them - and then i can make my own judgement and desicions - i dont rely on any tests anyway 100%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #44 October 14, 2003 If you ask me, I think these guys have their work cut out for them. Think about all the different aspect of freefly, and how we would need to license all of them. For instance, what if a person rocks head down, but can't sit for his life? What if another guy can sit well, and can half-cartwheel over to head down and vice versa, but can't do any full transitions?? What if someone has good chasing skills but no carving skills?? There are so many aspects of freefly, it would be hard to incorporate everything into licenses, and even if you could, you'd still have that "only for the top flyers" thing going for it. I think that sitfly should be separated from head down. Also, what about tests for backflying, transitions to and from different postions? This stuff needs to be covered too. Freefly isn't just about hd and sit. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chrisky 0 #45 October 15, 2003 Quotewhat if a person rocks head down, but can't sit for his life? Then imho by all means he's not a good freeflyer, sorry. IMHO you can't rock in hd if you can't rock in hu... QuoteWhat if another guy can sit well, and can half-cartwheel over to head down and vice versa, but can't do any full transitions??How will one ever know if he'll be able to stop at 180°? What happens if not? This is why a proficiency rating would help. But, as often stated in this thread, a solid sit/stand, then onheading 360° rotations, then headdown, 360° rotations in hd (ad) would give a good hold on what to expect. As for backflying, well a transition into backflying should be possible to everyone past AFF (This does not say anything about the quality of the backflight itself, of course). Dont get me wrong, i'm not in favor of regulation, but i think a system of some kind, just to give people a good orientation/reference is a very good thing.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chrisky 0 #46 October 15, 2003 Dont get me wrong, i'm not in favor of regulation, but i think a system of some kind, just to give people a good orientation/reference is a very good thing. I share your feelings and thoughts on the realism of this system, but that doesn't stop me from thinking that it would be a good thing...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fedykin 0 #47 October 17, 2003 i think what most people dislike about the whole AD/OLAV situation is the presumption that one individual has claimed ownership of the system ie... only he certifies others to give the test etc... it makes it inconvenient and expensive to take the test ie,, find a tester. it should be more freely available as in more testers, maybe the authority should be sub-governed by the USPA. but i think this one Olav, one school is no solution at all, it is stiffling the development of the sport to one degree or another Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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WrongWay 0 #31 October 4, 2003 Any updates on this subject yet??? Just checkin.... Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #32 October 4, 2003 Now, i'd go for a poll for the name. I think Rebel Freefly sounds kinda cool, but it's kinda "be a rebel for just being one", which is uncool... I think Universal FF License would be ok, but it sound a bit like beeing the only "true" thing out there, so i don't really prefer it. VRW also narrows it down in my POV. I'll try and think of something myself, then post it here... Just critizism from me so far... The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyanvil 0 #33 October 4, 2003 how bout instead of callin' it a license, you call it a "CoP "certificate of proficiency. FFCoP.Vid "stons fal, evrysing fals, but doesnt on purpos change its flite pas an positioning..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #34 October 5, 2003 Or maybe just Freefly Proficiency. Like having Freefly Proficiency Grade A, B and C or whatever. FFP sounds good to me...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #35 October 8, 2003 QuoteAny updates on this subject yet??? Just checkin.... not quite yet, but check back soon. i'll try not to keep ya waiting much longer. Levin AeRodeo Freefly vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #36 October 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteI think that everyone thinks this is a good idea. Think again. This reeks of Olav Zipser all over again. Privately run "licensing" organizations are bad ideas and hold no weight whatsoever, no matter what discipline you are talking about. While not having an AD rating kept you out of Space Games, not too many people cared about supporting Olav and his underlings anyway so it had no real effect on the sport as a whole in the end. People, soon enough, tired of paying an individual for the "opportunity" to jump with him, so now he and his system is passe. I liken that program to the Skydive University Coach rating; not at all applicable on the great majority of US dropzones without other, proper, USPA ratings. To that end, not having one of your private "licenses" is going to stop any freeflyer from getting on a load at a proper dropzone which offers free load organizing. Like you said, the honor system would totally be in effect, but only right up to the point where you either perform or fail to perform as advertised on your first jump with a new group. Your system is redundant in my opinion. On a separate but even grander scale, several years ago the fledgeling US Skydiver Association never got more than a curory glance, even though it was proposed as a cheaper, less burocratic alternative to USPA (much like you can choose between PADI, NAUI, and YMCA ratings in SCUBA diving). It never got off the ground because it really didn't offer any particular benefit, plus you still had to be a USPA member to skydive most places anyway. What you are proposing might work at your dropzone and those you can convince to follow your business template, but I can tell you as a dropzone school manager that it would not fly on my DZ. What you are proposing would require total cooperation, but if total cooperation were required, then USPA would be the one mandating it, not you (as a private individual) nor whatever consortium you propose. As in "flat" flying, USPA already has awards for 3D achievement. Look forward to new "real" USPA specific instructional ratings in the near future. I suspect that both wingsuit and freefly instructional ratings are on the way. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/SL/TM/BM-I, PRO, S&TA Raeford Parachute Center Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnerl 0 #37 October 10, 2003 Quoteto - not having an ad keeps you out of space games - it is totally not true that having no ad license keeps you out of space games. ad license is just required for the ad-challenge (you jump with a ball and do tranistions - you should have an ad) and for the indy 500. Freefly Team, Freestyle, Skysurf and Tracking Race requires NO AD license. And as far as USPA didn't come up with any freefly good ratings yet - AD license system is in my oppinion the only proper test yet. it gives me the secureness of jumping with people who don't move around in head down and proofed their skills in a high stressing test. in my oppinion we all shouldn't work against each other and everyone wants to try a new way. experience in freefly and developing freefly is a knowledge we all can learn and profit from! we dont have to come up with a new way and everything before is just shit - uspa, private guys, ... whatever - we should work together - and try to make our sport as safe as possible. everybody is good in talking but nobody came up yet with a similar good system than the ad - i train for that - to give other freeflyers soon the proof that i can fly safely with them. uspa and you guys and olav and everybody - if we work together not against and find out who is the best - than we would be a community and we could really support our sport proper and develop the human flight. peace guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyanvil 0 #38 October 12, 2003 >>experience in freefly and developing freefly is a knowledge we all can learn and profit from!<< umm, what exactly do you mean by this?Vid "stons fal, evrysing fals, but doesnt on purpos change its flite pas an positioning..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnerl 0 #39 October 13, 2003 i mean the process the 1st school of modern skyflying went through to develop freefly and a first real freefly license system all over the world. i am sure even they had some problems and did maybe some mistakes while developing this (and our sport). so if you guys want a better licensing system you are not nessesarily forced to go through the same by just - for example - talking to them, learn from them (they did definitely some good work the last ... years) and develop the sport as a comunity like freeflyers should be. (at least i experienced freeflyers like that). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #40 October 14, 2003 Sorry, but imho the ad is not a real licence. We're talking about a licencing system to show different levels of freefly proficiency. This starts of with maybe a good stable sit. a person who can jump in a stable, controlled sit can be safe to go with some others, but he's no good in a hd dive. where's an ad good here??? Not at all. One can do a safe ff jump w/o going hd and having an ad license. But you can't tell the proficiency of the new kid on the dz from them telling you "oh, i can sit", and that is the point. The level required for the ad is so high that you know that an ad license holder can do pretty much everything in the air, but what about that 200-sitflies working-really-good-headup people? The ad doesn't cover them... Apart from that, it is not very cooperative to have to travel to someones accidental place of beeing to be able to get a license of some sort, imho.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnerl 0 #41 October 14, 2003 that is all true what you say - i just think the way of working against each other is probably not the best. (the whole discussion seemed to be a bit agressive and just a contra ad thing - ad is a good thing! why not? - and its voluntary - not even reqired for space games.) but moreover to your license: yes it would be definitely good to know always the skills level of the person you jump with. but its not realistic (just in my oppinion) to have licenses for that. headdown bigways require a certain proof - i would like to have it if i would go for a hd big way with people i dont know - its fast, its dangerous, little mistakes could hurt you badly. - so the ad is perfect for it. that you have to go and find an olav instructor might kind of sock but they become more (the skills level in freefly increases way faster now - there are more good people) but if i wanna do it - i can proof it with a ball - a ballmaster SHOULD be a real one - you cant find ballmasters with the skills on every dropzone anyways. so that would be a good start to work together in the freefly scene to increase the number of ad instructors. (what might cost but also could be a income afterwards..at least i think so). for sitflying i dont know - i think it is not that dangerous as long as they stay in sit - i did that with 30 jumps on a 4 way and it worked - its more i think a matter of communication between skydivers - make sure that you talk to the people before you jump with them (what probably every freeflyer does) - ask and talk about your skillslevel - i take persons with 30 jumps with me to sitfly if they wanna try.. but than i am aware and would move anytime. and moreover: more and more official licencing organisations of countries include and start developing these licenses already. ask them where they are - maybe they are really thankful for help and good advise cause i am sure you guys have a lot of good ideas and if everybody thinks about what we are doing we could develop our sport all together - i think its cool. but as i said its just my oppinion - tell me if i think wrong!! have fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #42 October 14, 2003 For bigway hd or vrw the ad may be good, but if you think a headup dive is (or can't be) fast and dangerous, think again. I'm not against the ad, all i say it doen't really tell you the jumpers level below "top flyer". That's why it's mostly useless to the majority of beginners/intermediates out there whom a system of proficiency (lik the a-d US licences) would help...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnerl 0 #43 October 14, 2003 yes as i said you are right - but !!!! i never said that head up freeflying is not dangerous!!!! i said it is less dangerous to make a sitfly together than a headdown bigway - or at least i would like to have a proof of a certain level for doing hd together - that is at least what i meant. ratings would be good to have - but not too much paperwork in freeflying, please ... talk first, be honest, brief good, dont make risky or too fast things on your first jump with somebody new or unexperienced, separate good, be aware, look where you are, look where the others are, .. these things are more important ..and have fun. but if you feel better if somebody proofes it with another license - it makes sense - i just think its not realistic. and i - personally rather talk to them and try in a little fun sitfly with them - and then i can make my own judgement and desicions - i dont rely on any tests anyway 100%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #44 October 14, 2003 If you ask me, I think these guys have their work cut out for them. Think about all the different aspect of freefly, and how we would need to license all of them. For instance, what if a person rocks head down, but can't sit for his life? What if another guy can sit well, and can half-cartwheel over to head down and vice versa, but can't do any full transitions?? What if someone has good chasing skills but no carving skills?? There are so many aspects of freefly, it would be hard to incorporate everything into licenses, and even if you could, you'd still have that "only for the top flyers" thing going for it. I think that sitfly should be separated from head down. Also, what about tests for backflying, transitions to and from different postions? This stuff needs to be covered too. Freefly isn't just about hd and sit. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #45 October 15, 2003 Quotewhat if a person rocks head down, but can't sit for his life? Then imho by all means he's not a good freeflyer, sorry. IMHO you can't rock in hd if you can't rock in hu... QuoteWhat if another guy can sit well, and can half-cartwheel over to head down and vice versa, but can't do any full transitions??How will one ever know if he'll be able to stop at 180°? What happens if not? This is why a proficiency rating would help. But, as often stated in this thread, a solid sit/stand, then onheading 360° rotations, then headdown, 360° rotations in hd (ad) would give a good hold on what to expect. As for backflying, well a transition into backflying should be possible to everyone past AFF (This does not say anything about the quality of the backflight itself, of course). Dont get me wrong, i'm not in favor of regulation, but i think a system of some kind, just to give people a good orientation/reference is a very good thing.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #46 October 15, 2003 Dont get me wrong, i'm not in favor of regulation, but i think a system of some kind, just to give people a good orientation/reference is a very good thing. I share your feelings and thoughts on the realism of this system, but that doesn't stop me from thinking that it would be a good thing...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fedykin 0 #47 October 17, 2003 i think what most people dislike about the whole AD/OLAV situation is the presumption that one individual has claimed ownership of the system ie... only he certifies others to give the test etc... it makes it inconvenient and expensive to take the test ie,, find a tester. it should be more freely available as in more testers, maybe the authority should be sub-governed by the USPA. but i think this one Olav, one school is no solution at all, it is stiffling the development of the sport to one degree or another Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
