Skylark 0 #1 August 13, 2003 I learnt how to fly head-down totally stable in only 3 jumps. Is this about average? I only have 85 jumps in total and I tried sit flying a few times but couldn't hold it. Then I tried head down and, voila! It was so easy! I was even able to spin and rotate at will. "Into the dangerous world I leapt..." William Blake, Songs of Experience Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #2 August 13, 2003 I learned out of c182's. Took me about 8 to 10 jumps to be able to hold sit for entire jump. About another 30 to become stable. Took me about 300 HD jumps (w/out coaching) just to get correct body position. Levin vSCS#3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #3 August 13, 2003 Please define "totally stable". Getting head down in three jumps IS GREAT!!! Knowing your own body position in freefall and learning cause and effect of flying different body parts takes more time. What you think is head-down could be a few degrees off. Get some coaching or get yourself on video and take a look. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuddhaBoy 0 #4 August 13, 2003 Great Work! For me it was the other way round. Headup worked great quickly but headdown worked sometimes and sometimes not. (Think I were trying to hard). Keep up the good work, do a lot of one-to-one jumps to keep a good level and don't forget to also learn headup b/c it's a good way to catch level if you're a bit low.. -Fear not those who argue, but those who dodge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #5 August 13, 2003 Just make sure you're really head down and not flying somewhat on your back. That is the mistake that many newbies make while trying hd for the first time, including me. The best way to judge is to jump with a coach, or a very good freeflier who can video you and who can also be your guide as to whether you are backsliding or not. I'm not saying this is the case for you, I'm just saying it happens to most of us at first.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #6 August 13, 2003 I can sit and stand, but can't manage to stay head down and stable...---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnydee123 0 #7 August 13, 2003 If you found a true head down in just 3 jumps....good for you - I'm jealous! I just started my attempts at headdown this weekend, making each with a very good flyer and just forsee it taking me a bit longer then grasping "sit". Be careful, I was all excited thinking I did a solo and was on my head but then did the same exit with my boyfriend who shot video and I was on my back (with my little neck stretched as far back as it could go making me THINK I was on my head...it was kinda funny after the fact). I would definitely make a jump with someone who could shoot video for you so you can SEE what you are doing in the air. Please be careful - lots of things to consider when we are in the air and trying something new. It all comes with jumps so keep on jumping my friend. Dreams become reality, one choice at a time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #8 August 20, 2003 A lot of newbies make a huge mistake in "thinking" they're head down. I've seen a lot of people not quite flying head down, as opposed to a really steep track. In head down, you're not flying on your head, per se, you're actually hanging by your legs, with your upper body totally relaxed, and doing all your steering with your newly formed "rudders" (legs). In a track, you're still pushing the wind with your shoulders, arms, head, etc., but in head down, it's all just hanging by your legs. I really think that's the best way I can explain it. http://www.skydivewrongway.com Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedformula 0 #9 August 20, 2003 dude , another 2 jumps and you'll be competing in the space games ! :) jk Keeping it real 22x7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #10 August 21, 2003 I went head down the other day! Of course it was as I was spinning out of control searching for my ripcord, but I kid you not, I watched the video, and I was headdown for a good half second. It's an easy discipline. -Kramer The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #11 August 21, 2003 In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Its an easy discipline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You might want to think twice about that statement. Don't worry, if you start freeflying, you will see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #12 August 22, 2003 I played around with head down on Monday. I definitely can't say I was stable, tho, cuz I couldn't hold it for long. I'd be in what I think is the position, then i'd start thinking, how f-ing cool, and all of a sudden, I would become unstable and start to come out of it. I can say that no matter how poorly I did, I had a blast!! Can't wait to get some training in it! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #13 August 22, 2003 troll. No, dude, it aint that simple. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #14 August 22, 2003 Quotetroll. No, dude, it aint that simple. amen to that!!! Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #15 August 26, 2003 actually, once you get it down, it's the easiest thing in the world to do in the air. seriously, once you got it, you got it. and it just gets easier and easier and easier and easier and easier. and before long you will be flying with your mind instead of your body. everything becomes so 2nd nature that you no longer have to think about your body other than being aware of what it is doing on a much less conscious level. you will thnk I want to go there and your body will follow your mind. once mastered headdown is the easiest body position to fly in skydiving. it just starts out hard when you are beggining. so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com edit: my statement above is in reference to headdown flying only. not freeflying in general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #16 August 26, 2003 Quoteactually, once you get it down, it's the easiest thing in the world to do in the air. seriously, once you got it, you got it. and it just gets easier and easier and easier and easier and easier. and before long you will be flying with your mind instead of your body. everything becomes so 2nd nature that you no longer have to think about your body other than being aware of what it is doing on a much less conscious level. you will thnk I want to go there and your body will follow your mind. once mastered headdown is the easiest body position to fly in skydiving. it just starts out hard when you are beggining. so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline. "once mastered" You are either speaking entirely for yourself, or misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery. Anything seems easy once you've mastered it, but you have to respect the discipline and training it took to get there. And everyone is different. Some have natural ability with flying, others, like myself have had to work hard at it. Head down flying is challenging enough that flying a base for a larger formation way formation is never easy, or boring, the way it might be in belly flying. I had heard that once you get it, it's simple to master, but it still took me hundreds and hundreds of jumps to be where I want to be in the sky on my head and I see tons of people with different plateaus in their learning curve at all different stages of learning head down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #17 August 26, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, what are you trying to say here? You have mastered it? Thats a bold statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Levin 0 #18 August 26, 2003 QuoteSo, what are you trying to say here? You have mastered it? Thats a bold statement. Maybe it is a bold statement. For me being able to make that statement had it's price. I spent a little over 1000 jumps in a row on my head for the entire duration of every skydive. No sitting, no transitions, no nothing but headdown from exit to break off. For a tad over 1000 jumps. That's alot of time spent working on just one thing. So to me, saying that I have mastered headdown does not seem like a bold statement considering what I did to achieve that skill. On the other hand, unfortunately, I can't sit fly or belly fly worth a damn. And my cartwheels look more like corkwheels. That's why you never see me posting to threads about sitting or transitions. Actually I just started working on sitflying this year which has taken away some of the precision I had on my head since I'm not spending as much time there. My headdown skills has also made my sit learning curve kinda interesting. I've gotten linked transitions down fairly well, yet I still don't have enough control with my horizontal movements to take a dock. I was an okay belly flyer about 5yrs ago before I started freeflying. I think I'm going to go to the wind tunnel this winter to pick those skills back up. So as of right now, as a headdown flyer I think I'm pretty damn good (bold statement or not), but as an all around freeflyer...i suck (but just wait next year). Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Levin 0 #19 August 26, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- actually, once you get it down, it's the easiest thing in the world to do in the air. seriously, once you got it, you got it. and it just gets easier and easier and easier and easier and easier. and before long you will be flying with your mind instead of your body. everything becomes so 2nd nature that you no longer have to think about your body other than being aware of what it is doing on a much less conscious level. you will thnk I want to go there and your body will follow your mind. once mastered headdown is the easiest body position to fly in skydiving. it just starts out hard when you are beggining. so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote"once mastered" You are either speaking entirely for yourself, or misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery. Anything seems easy once you've mastered it, Mr. Apoil, the headdown position is the most aerodynamic body position therefore it is the most maneuverable. Which means once you figure out how to do it, it is the easiest body position to get from point A to point B. That's the common sense physics behind it. That is unless your built like a bowling ball. I don't believe I "misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery". Twice I've alreading posted to this thread jump numbers, when I started and how long it took to learn it. Quotebut you have to respect the discipline and training it took to get there. yep, your jumping out of a plane 100's of times. Don't think there's anyone in the sport that doesn't respect that. QuoteAnd everyone is different. Damndest thing. Billions of people on this planet and with the exception of twins, no two people are alike. QuoteSome have natural ability with flying, others, like myself have had to work hard at it. Yep, you are right again. Everybody has their hidden talents. For me freefall surely isn't one of them. However I do feel I am a little talented at swooping my canopy, but I wouldn't call myself a natural at that either. QuoteHead down flying is challenging enough that flying a base for a larger formation way formation is never easy, or boring, the way it might be in belly flying. Right Again!!! Headdown bigway is quit the opposite of a belly bigway. Typically we always put our best flyers in the base and inner ring. QuoteI had heard that once you get it, it's simple to master, OMG, the secret is out. Tell me Mr. Apoil, had you already heard that or did you first hear it from me? Quotebut it still took me hundreds and hundreds of jumps to be where I want to be in the sky on my head me too. but I think i've already said that. Quoteand I see tons of people with different plateaus in their learning curve at all different stages of learning head down. yep, like you said above "everyone is different". Now, tell me this Mr. Apoil. What is the real motivation for you replying to my post? You come at me as if you want to debate something, yet you do nothing but reinforce what I say. Quite often you quote me for saying something and then try to debate the same point. I believe your intentions are nothing more than to butt heads with me every time you see me post. If that is the case then may I warn you that you will loose everytime. Simply because I think about and research what I am going to say before I chime in and run my mouth. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sssbc99 0 #20 August 26, 2003 In Reply to: "And my cartwheels look more like corkwheels. That's why you never see me posting to threads about sitting or transitions." Wouldn't you say that part of the "mastery" you speak of is being adept at transitions (from a HD position)? I'm not trying to rattle your cage because I dont know shit so dont get too offended. Im just curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Levin 0 #21 August 26, 2003 QuoteWouldn't you say that part of the "mastery" you speak of is being adept at transitions (from a HD position)? I'm not trying to rattle your cage because I dont know shit so dont get too offended. Im just curious. no offense. the only axis I would consider being apart of that mastery I speak of would be spins, since I leave a headdown orientation when I do flips or corkwheels. By mastery I mean I have the same control headdown in freefall as I do standing or walking around on the ground. I obtained that level of precision last fall. I've lost a little of that precision since I started working on my sit. And also because I haven't been jumping as much this year. The key to getting there is jump numbers. Last year I made 65 jumps in July and 73 in August. Close to that last September. In those 3 months I made alot of progression. Making the most jumps you can in a short period of time makes you more comfortable and greatly increases your awareness which makes any discipline of skydiving much easier. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trent 0 #22 August 27, 2003 Since you posted that VSCR picture to demonstrate your mastery, does that make me a master sitter since I was docked in a sit? Come on dude, none of us have mastered ANY aspect of skydiving. I like that I have weak points, it gives me reason to work harder. I know that this dude's pissed you off, but don't make yourself look snobbish or something because of it. I know you, that's not you. I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 78RATS 0 #23 August 27, 2003 Quote I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving. I'm pretty good at corking. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #24 August 27, 2003 QuoteI'm pretty good at corking. Oh man.. me too! I've been working on that one for years. -My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Levin 0 #25 August 27, 2003 QuoteSince you posted that VSCR picture to demonstrate your mastery, does that make me a master sitter since I was docked in a sit? Come on dude, none of us have mastered ANY aspect of skydiving. I like that I have weak points, it gives me reason to work harder. I know that this dude's pissed you off, but don't make yourself look snobbish or something because of it. I know you, that's not you. I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving. okay you are right. mastery is a very poor choice of words. since this is a sport that we will always be learning and improving, mastery is possibly impossible. I was just trying to make the point to the people that commented headdown is difficult, that it is actually very easy to fly once you get the hang of it. Wasn't trying to sound snobby. Regarding Mr. Apoil, dude never pissed me off. Just confuses the piss out of me cause I can't figure out where he's coming from or what he's getting at. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Levin 0 #18 August 26, 2003 QuoteSo, what are you trying to say here? You have mastered it? Thats a bold statement. Maybe it is a bold statement. For me being able to make that statement had it's price. I spent a little over 1000 jumps in a row on my head for the entire duration of every skydive. No sitting, no transitions, no nothing but headdown from exit to break off. For a tad over 1000 jumps. That's alot of time spent working on just one thing. So to me, saying that I have mastered headdown does not seem like a bold statement considering what I did to achieve that skill. On the other hand, unfortunately, I can't sit fly or belly fly worth a damn. And my cartwheels look more like corkwheels. That's why you never see me posting to threads about sitting or transitions. Actually I just started working on sitflying this year which has taken away some of the precision I had on my head since I'm not spending as much time there. My headdown skills has also made my sit learning curve kinda interesting. I've gotten linked transitions down fairly well, yet I still don't have enough control with my horizontal movements to take a dock. I was an okay belly flyer about 5yrs ago before I started freeflying. I think I'm going to go to the wind tunnel this winter to pick those skills back up. So as of right now, as a headdown flyer I think I'm pretty damn good (bold statement or not), but as an all around freeflyer...i suck (but just wait next year). Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #19 August 26, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- actually, once you get it down, it's the easiest thing in the world to do in the air. seriously, once you got it, you got it. and it just gets easier and easier and easier and easier and easier. and before long you will be flying with your mind instead of your body. everything becomes so 2nd nature that you no longer have to think about your body other than being aware of what it is doing on a much less conscious level. you will thnk I want to go there and your body will follow your mind. once mastered headdown is the easiest body position to fly in skydiving. it just starts out hard when you are beggining. so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote"once mastered" You are either speaking entirely for yourself, or misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery. Anything seems easy once you've mastered it, Mr. Apoil, the headdown position is the most aerodynamic body position therefore it is the most maneuverable. Which means once you figure out how to do it, it is the easiest body position to get from point A to point B. That's the common sense physics behind it. That is unless your built like a bowling ball. I don't believe I "misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery". Twice I've alreading posted to this thread jump numbers, when I started and how long it took to learn it. Quotebut you have to respect the discipline and training it took to get there. yep, your jumping out of a plane 100's of times. Don't think there's anyone in the sport that doesn't respect that. QuoteAnd everyone is different. Damndest thing. Billions of people on this planet and with the exception of twins, no two people are alike. QuoteSome have natural ability with flying, others, like myself have had to work hard at it. Yep, you are right again. Everybody has their hidden talents. For me freefall surely isn't one of them. However I do feel I am a little talented at swooping my canopy, but I wouldn't call myself a natural at that either. QuoteHead down flying is challenging enough that flying a base for a larger formation way formation is never easy, or boring, the way it might be in belly flying. Right Again!!! Headdown bigway is quit the opposite of a belly bigway. Typically we always put our best flyers in the base and inner ring. QuoteI had heard that once you get it, it's simple to master, OMG, the secret is out. Tell me Mr. Apoil, had you already heard that or did you first hear it from me? Quotebut it still took me hundreds and hundreds of jumps to be where I want to be in the sky on my head me too. but I think i've already said that. Quoteand I see tons of people with different plateaus in their learning curve at all different stages of learning head down. yep, like you said above "everyone is different". Now, tell me this Mr. Apoil. What is the real motivation for you replying to my post? You come at me as if you want to debate something, yet you do nothing but reinforce what I say. Quite often you quote me for saying something and then try to debate the same point. I believe your intentions are nothing more than to butt heads with me every time you see me post. If that is the case then may I warn you that you will loose everytime. Simply because I think about and research what I am going to say before I chime in and run my mouth. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #20 August 26, 2003 In Reply to: "And my cartwheels look more like corkwheels. That's why you never see me posting to threads about sitting or transitions." Wouldn't you say that part of the "mastery" you speak of is being adept at transitions (from a HD position)? I'm not trying to rattle your cage because I dont know shit so dont get too offended. Im just curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #21 August 26, 2003 QuoteWouldn't you say that part of the "mastery" you speak of is being adept at transitions (from a HD position)? I'm not trying to rattle your cage because I dont know shit so dont get too offended. Im just curious. no offense. the only axis I would consider being apart of that mastery I speak of would be spins, since I leave a headdown orientation when I do flips or corkwheels. By mastery I mean I have the same control headdown in freefall as I do standing or walking around on the ground. I obtained that level of precision last fall. I've lost a little of that precision since I started working on my sit. And also because I haven't been jumping as much this year. The key to getting there is jump numbers. Last year I made 65 jumps in July and 73 in August. Close to that last September. In those 3 months I made alot of progression. Making the most jumps you can in a short period of time makes you more comfortable and greatly increases your awareness which makes any discipline of skydiving much easier. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #22 August 27, 2003 Since you posted that VSCR picture to demonstrate your mastery, does that make me a master sitter since I was docked in a sit? Come on dude, none of us have mastered ANY aspect of skydiving. I like that I have weak points, it gives me reason to work harder. I know that this dude's pissed you off, but don't make yourself look snobbish or something because of it. I know you, that's not you. I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #23 August 27, 2003 Quote I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving. I'm pretty good at corking. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #24 August 27, 2003 QuoteI'm pretty good at corking. Oh man.. me too! I've been working on that one for years. -My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #25 August 27, 2003 QuoteSince you posted that VSCR picture to demonstrate your mastery, does that make me a master sitter since I was docked in a sit? Come on dude, none of us have mastered ANY aspect of skydiving. I like that I have weak points, it gives me reason to work harder. I know that this dude's pissed you off, but don't make yourself look snobbish or something because of it. I know you, that's not you. I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving. okay you are right. mastery is a very poor choice of words. since this is a sport that we will always be learning and improving, mastery is possibly impossible. I was just trying to make the point to the people that commented headdown is difficult, that it is actually very easy to fly once you get the hang of it. Wasn't trying to sound snobby. Regarding Mr. Apoil, dude never pissed me off. Just confuses the piss out of me cause I can't figure out where he's coming from or what he's getting at. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
