Pillow reserve handles & RSL's

[mjosparky 3]

Are you saying the military lied? Just becasue a civilian rigger didn't look at it does not mean they were wrong...But since you were there if you have more info let me know....But it sounds like a rigging error that fired the reserve by the RSL to me....No RSL not a problem. But then again a good gear check or the proper gear would have fixed this as well. Go back to my theory about if you don't need it, and it can cause problems...don't take it. More gear is more possible problems...You know this you test jump stuff.

I did not say anything you have written down. You come up with things out of the blue. No the military did not lie. They did not say anything, and the rest was speculation on the part of the civilian jump community. Then you jump in and say it sounds like a rigging error. How did you come up with that in a dream. Try and get things right.
(becasue is spelled because, use spellcheck)

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

In Reply To
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One
People who conducted the investigation stated the RSL was not involved.

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The rapid deployment of the reserve via the RSL
resulted in his capturing the reserve pilot chute on his right arm

Those are not my words, it is a quote from the same source.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 7]

Whos arguing just to argue now?

Several people said it was a factor.....but since you don't think so, I guess its not...I bet you know more than the ones that were there.

Im done with you and this....You can continue to say that the world is wrong....But I go with the ones that were there.

You are right the rest of the world is wrong.

Have a good day

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 3]

Read you own research material, the people who did the investigation said it was not a factor, the other people who said it was a factor are just guessing, like you.
Now the whole world is not wrong, just you. This is not arguing, it is fact.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 7]

What part of I AM DONE WITH YOU AND THIS did you not understand? Do you not speak english?

You said "name one incident" about the RSL's...I gave you 6.

Now you want to bicker about each one. I guess you know better than everyone.

You asked for reports...I gave them to you. Now you still will not admit that an RSL can cause a problem.

It takes away your options...

Each person that was saved by an RSL screwed up...The people that were killed by them didn't.

Again.......I am done with you (unless you can admit that an RSL CAN cause problems, I have agreed that they can save you).

But if you continue to toe the line that the rest of the world is an idiot....Well Im done.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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No, we have 4 people you said died due to an RSL. Read carefully, the facts don't support that conclution.

I don't know what facts you are reading...but read it again..

They all state RSLs as a problem.

Again, I guess everyone but you is wrong.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[goose491 0]

Bump!!

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I've heard of very very few one-sided releases. I'd say none, but I'm sure there's one out there.

Just one?

Well then here it is!

Granted, this was the jumpers fault as she let go of the handle too soon... there was no RSL but if there was, and it was hooked up to the right riser... then that's what we're talking about here.

Nick

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[diablopilot 2]

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Granted, this was the jumpers fault as she let go of the handle too soon... there was no RSL but if there was, and it was hooked up to the right riser... then that's what we're talking about here.

And if the rig had an RSL and was rigged correctly, the side with the RSL would have had a longer cutaway cable on that side, preventing it's premature release.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mjosparky 3]

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No, we have 4 people you said died due to an RSL. Read carefully, the facts don't support that conclution.

I don't know what facts you are reading...but read it again..

They all state RSLs as a problem.

Again, I guess everyone but you is wrong.

"People who conducted the investigation stated the RSL was not involved." This is a direct quote from the report. How do you read it?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 7]

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"People who conducted the investigation stated the RSL was not involved." This is a direct quote from the
report. How do you read it

OK lets say I let this one go how about the other 5?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Scrumpot 1]

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You argue for the sake of arguing.

Amen!

I disagree. ...And yes, Ron & I have "debated" as well before. Agree with his position or not, an unbiased review of this thread shows his posts instead to ask clearly considered, thought-provocative, appropriately probing questions.

IMHO only those intimidated b/c of either the weakness of their own positions, or their own lack of FULL consideration(s) given to same, consider his POINT MAKING to be "arguing".

Smarten up gentlemen. There is a difference between argument and debate. The latter I find personally, stimulating. You are of course entitled to your own perspective(s), which is however IMHO, self-evidentiary as to the strengths (or weaknesess as the case may be) of your own convictions.

Why bother continually typing then and "responding" if you think that nothing is being said? "Arguing for the sake of arguing" is someone who states one thing as fact, only to be PROVEN debunked, but then continues with ANOTHER (tangent) "yeah, but"...
I don't see that this has happened here (on EITHER of your sides). Why does there always seem to need to be such animosity with "disagreement"? Isn't it okay to disagree? And especially when it comes to a PERSONAL PREFERENCE CHOICE issue?

I have long had a personal saying which guides me in this regard....

If 2 people are in the same room CONSTANTLY AGREEING with each other on EVERYTHING ...Then clearly, ONE OF THEM IS ENTIRELY UNNECESSARY!!

Blue Skies Gentlemen,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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And if the rig had an RSL and was rigged correctly, the side with the RSL would have had a longer cutaway cable on that side, preventing it's premature release.

And that is in fact, what I think DID happen in this case! However, this case also was not IMO an RSL "issue" at all. The issue in this example instead was an instance where this jumper did not COMPLETE HER CUT-AWAY PULL (and never did). The RSL never became invovled.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[mjosparky 3]

Ron,
I keep asking you for one good reason. You are too busy arguing to realize you have the one good reason. "You don't want to wear one". You are all grown up, that is the only reason you need.
Sparky

I thought this would give him a hint as to reason.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 7]

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Ron,
I keep asking you for one good reason. You are too busy arguing to realize you have the one good reason.
"You don't want to wear one". You are all grown up, that is the only reason you need.
Sparky

I thought this would give him a hint as to reason.
Sparky

And all I every asked of you was to admit that an RSL CAN cause a problem...Which you have yet to admit...Other than your comment about your test jumping.

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I do testing and jump under a wide variety of circumstances and things are less hectic without one.
Sparky

Why would it be less hectic without one...It s a back up that only works when you need it right?

I don't jump an RSL because it takes my options away...And lack of options has contributed to accidents. I PREFER not to risk the possible bad things that can happen to make up for my stupidity for putting myself into a situation that I would need an RSL to save me. Im an adult...It is my choice based on 6 cutaways, CRW wraps, and a review of accident reports where RSL's were both contributed to a save, and contributed to the accident.

In the saves...People could have saved themselves...In the accidents, they were screwed even if they did nothing wrong.

Now will you admit that an RSL can cause a problem?

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Scrumpot 1]

Glad to see us all "getting along" again now!
I can almost feel the love...

LOL ...I crack myself up!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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Now will you admit that an RSL can cause a problem?

C'mon Mike... I know you can do it! After all, you yourself state that you don't jump with an RSL either!

I've never seen 2 people, who intrinsically have the SAME OPINION bicker about it so much
I'm gonna sound like that Treetop person on that other platform now with this, but:
Most Excellent Entertainment indeed!

You BOTH actually imparted some informative "wisdom" if you-all can simply just climb on down off of those high-horses of what really is just basic semantics!

And who was it who "corrected" Ron's spelling of because? ---Now THAT one ...THAT was a good one!!!

Blue Skies guys!
-Grant

Edited to correct name reference error -DOH! ---Too many threads & PM's going on all at one time. Iv'e got to slow down here!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[mjosparky 3]

I will admit that an RSL can cause a problem, but like I stated before, every piece of gear you exit the airplane with can and has caused a problem but you still jump with it.
PS- in testing situations you are not sure what canopy you will go to next until it's time. Makes hooking an RSL up tough.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

Grant,
They could use your talents in the UN. If I knew you 20 years ago I might still be married. Ugh, now that a scary thought.
And yes, it was I who corrected "because".
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 7]

I would start to cry and tell you to quit picking on me BECAUSE I suffer from Dyslexia....

Of course its not true, I just type fast and don't proof read.

5 out of 4 people suffer from dyslexia ya know.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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will admit that an RSL can cause a problem, but like I stated before, every piece of gear you exit the
airplane with can and has caused a problem but you still jump with it.

Ah now I feel all warm and fuzzy!

But I don't Jump with any extra or unsafe piece of equipment.

I do have a CYPRES I don't NEED it, but I have yet to hear ONE incident where a properly used CYPRES caused an accident.

My Container is a Micron...Never heard a unsafe thing about them....

My reserve is also a something that I have never heard a bad thing about. A PD113. I had a Micro Raven, and as soon as the little "issue" they had, I got rid of it.

My Stiletto....Well its a main, I can and have cut it away.
But I have also cutaway other mains. I have more Mals on a Stiletto, but I also have more Stiletto jumps.

My Jumpsuit is not unsafe, and I don't jump boards or tubes.

I wear a full face helmet with a flip up visor so I can lift it up if it fogs...But I don't lift it up all the time so it does not wear out the ratchets and have it open in freefall.

Every piece of equipment I have I look at the good and the bad and make a choice...I started doing this when I heard about a guy that got killed jumping his sons GI Joe.

Who would of thought that a GI Joe could kill you?

All I want people to do is look at each piece of gear and THINK a little before they just strap it on and go.

If I ask them about it and they can give me a good reason for OR against it...I figure they thought about it and leave them alone about it.

I personally think that a person should wear an RSL till they have proven that they will pull both handles....After that I leave it to them.

You are a smart guy....I just don't think that there is any "correct" gear.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 3]

You are right, there is no correct gear, just gear that will kill you and all gear can kill you if you let it.
For the record, I am dyslexic so I always use spell check.
Your warm and fuzzy maker.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

Ron,
If you don't reply, this thread is going to die!
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 7]

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Ron,
If you don't reply, this thread is going to die!
Sparky

Oh good god no!!!

Can't let this happen...must PW!!!!

Sorry I spent my weekend at the DZ...I don't have a comuter there.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[spectreflyer 0]

Thanks for the info Sparky. I made my first jump in 82. I still use an RSL and AAD. Take a look at the fatality that happened at Rantoul a few weeks ago (I was there). Sounds like a RSL could have saved this man's life. He had a malfunction, cut it away, but ran out of altitude trying to get the reserve out!
We could argue this point forever. It's your life and it's your death. You decide!

[jmfreefly 0]

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I do have a CYPRES I don't NEED it, but I have yet to hear ONE incident where a properly used CYPRES caused an accident.

...

Who would of thought that a GI Joe could kill you?

I have heard of complications b/c of CYPRESS, but I cant remember the outcome... And the problem was an 'improperly use' issue. [ aircraft dropped below dropzone elevation, unbenownst to the jumper ]


As for GI Joe.. hey man.. he is a bad mofo.. I don't mess with him..

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