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mindninja

Super light camera flyer tips

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Hey guys. I'm just starting to fly cameras and i'm struggling to find somebody that has the same build as me to give me some tips. I'm 5'11 and only 135lbs. Currently i have to wear 18lbs when i'm doing RW just to keep up during 4-way so i'm trying to figure out if wings would even be an option for me. It seems counter intuitive to put camera wings on and then weigh myself down with a ton of weight. By summer i need to be able to do tandem videos but will probably be doing mostly 4-way for practice until then.
Most people are telling me i "need" to use wings but none of them are even remotely close to my height and weight so i'm finding it tough to trust that info unquestioningly.
Also freeflying isn't an option for me right now skill-wise.

Thanks for any help you guys can give me

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I'm 5'7" and about 145 lbs so not really same shape as you, so not got great advice in that perspective.

However, when I fly 4 way camera I fly with wings and load up with lead, usually between 8-14 lbs for me.

I generally fly with my wings mostly, but not completely, collapsed, but then the wings are there to be used if/when I need them. The weight and slight bit of wings keeps me at the fall rate of the team. Hit that burble and with wings you might be able to save it, without them I'd say there's more chance you are going through. They allow you to have extra range in your fall rate than you would have without them. And the loading up with weight will also allow you to fall faster should the team funnel and start to get away from you. I find fully collapsing the wings then allows me to have that faster range with the weight.

I've not done any tandem camera to give any meaningful input there.

It does seem counter-productive, but so far for me it has worked, and I've got no plans on changing this approach any time soon.
Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

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The point of the wings during a tandem is not for the fall rate, its for the angle. Because the cameras are on top of your head when you fly on level with a tandem the cameras are looking down at them. It is a horribly framed shot. You need the wings to sit you up (without backsliding) when you fly slightly below level of the tandem which puts the passenger front and center of the video frame.

A good question to ask the TI after you why with them is if they needed to lift their head to see you. If yes then you are too high, if not then you are most likely in the right place.

Remember the tandem jump is always about the student. NEVER the instructor or yourself.

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I was 127lbs when I started cameraflying, although I'm a bit shorter than you. I use the biggest wings, plus one or 2 weight belts as needed.

Both for 4way and for tandems you want wings. Plus weights yes, if you need them. The wings are there for safety: flying around the edge of the burble (RW) without wings results in crashes sooner or later when you or your team tire of too flat video or too small video. With tandems you can use the wings to pop away from a backfloat exit if you are on top of them, you need them to get the proper video angle (as explained above), you can use them for a nice tandem shot if you want: go backwards and pop up at the same time. You can also use the wings as brakes: bleed of forward speed quick or fly backwards.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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concerning wings- IMO this is one of the most common misconceptions. Wings can be AWESOME for extra drag/fallrate when you need it, but for many that isn't the primary reason camera guys wear them. One of the big things wings do is allow you to fly at different angles/positions and use your head as a tripod. Tandem video is an easy example- if you want to get low and pitch up so that you are featuring the student's face/body, you can "hang" on your wings pitch head up, legs low and not speed up or backslide away from them. For 4 way, it allows me to fly very flat from hip to head and use my wings to adjust fallrate instead of arch/head position. Not to be slow enough...just to slow me to change my body position and fall rate in ways that might not be as easy without wings. For much of my 4 way, I fly with my wings collaped and just use them when needed instead of using my head/body. If I need to speed up or slow down for an instant to stay where I need to, I use the wings and don't risk moving my head or fucking up the shot. drives me a little crazy when the small guys (and i'm not big... at all) say they don't need wings because they can fall so slow.... then you see their video and it is less than idea because they don't have the right tools for the job to get them in the right place for the right shot. Bottom line is wings give you more options with your body position at a given fall rate, and let use your head to focus on the shot, instead of fallrate/proximity

collapsed wings
https://www.facebook.com/RandySwallowsPhotography/photos/t.622434219/751880014859962/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205803785752545&set=t.622434219&type=3&theater

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Quote

collapsed wings
https://www.facebook.com/.../?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater



Your FB settings don't allow us to view those pics.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Like this:

Angle you are aiming for with tandem video ("belly in the shot"):

[inline tandem.jpg]

Me getting that angle:

[inline wings_S.jpg]

Other (featherweight) cameraflyer getting that angle:

[inline laurent.jpg]

Me filming the tandem opening (tried that once without wings, oopsy.... lol):

[inline up.jpg]

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I find the choice of acceptable gear depends on the culture of the DZ and the camera flyers at any given time.

At some places, you might be looked down on if you do tandem video without "the proper gear" -- some sort of fancy flat top helmet, ring sight, camera wing jacket. At other places, it is considered that one can get decent video without all that. I did video for years with a converted Protec helmet, no ringsight, and no camera jacket, and other than the Protec, it wasn't seen as an oddity locally.

The video flyers I see without camera jackets do tend to be the light to medium folks. Without having the great range of a camera suit, one may need to adjust weights worn, or for a slightly heavier camera flyer, have a couple suits of different drag levels available. So the downside is that you don't just walk out all geared up; you do need to check who the tandem instructor is and what the student's weight is.

I'm not such a lightweight as you. At 6'1" and 155 lb now, I often fly with a set of $10 used coveralls -- for a bit of drag range and much easier donning than a form fitting suit -- and just load up with typically 6 to 15lbs of weights. One local 120lb girl always uses her form fitting freefly suit, plus weights.

So hopefully for you, local culture will allow you to fly without camera wings, and just a tight, slick suit and plenty of weight.

Edit: I should note that Dragon2 has made the point that one can use wings as someone light... if one gets used to lots of weight... and probably a little practice to really 'hang on the wings' without having the body flat and draggy.

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Thanks for all the info guys!
I should have been a little more specific to mention that i know the goal of the wings isn't really for fall rate. My main concern was whether or not i would be able to fall fast enough without having to put on a ridiculous amount of weight or if i could get away with not using them.
From all i'm hearing i think i'll just have to suck it up and get even more used to weights then i am already and get on a set of wings.
Luckily i'm about 2 minutes away from a wind tunnel so i'll be able to do a lot of experimenting in there.
Thanks again guys

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Being a light (62kg) tandemvideot for the past 400 jumps, I found out a couple of things to keep in mind buying a suit and flying it.

At first, although obvious, make sure the suit itself is form-fitting your body. This can be a tailor made suit, but can also be a cheap 2nd hand if you're lucky.

For the wings, most important is the ability to fully collapse them if needed. When I bought a new suit, the wings initially extended all the way to my forearms, so even if i kept my arms closed, the wings would still have drag and float me away from any fast-falling tandem pair. I had the wings reduced to my elbow, and it hasn't been a problem since.
So basically I just collapse the wings if I want to fall fast, and extend them when I want to get another angle or fall slower (believe me.. there are always tandem pairs falling even slower than you ;))

Wings don't necessarily make you fall slower; in my video suit, i'm actually able to fall significantly faster than my RW suit that has booties and grips sticking out.

Regarding the fallrates; a part of that should have already been resolved by collapsing wings and a tight suit. Practicing arching helps a lot as well. I personally am able to fly without weights now, and it saves me lots of energy on back-2-back loads running back and forth. Using weights is not a crime though; if you need it, use it.

If you need any more tricks, give a shout or pm :)

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(edited)

Hey all, reviving this thread as I'm in a similar boat. I'm 62-65 kg (140ish lbs) (depending on how much beer and grilling went on Friday night) and 170cm / 5'7". I had my first full weekend of camera flying with the beginner class 4-way team some friends put together, and have been getting tips from the local camera flyers, who are my primary source of advice. But, with the usual appropriate skepticism, I want to open it up to the internet a bit.

I'm flying at the moment with a relatively snug (but not ultra-tight) free-fly suit. Except when they're in very "flat" formations, I still have to work fairly hard to keep up (hard arch, elbows in and under) without losing the camera angle (I could out-fall them when they're together as a group, but then I'd have to also tilt my head up and back). I only got uncomfortably close to the burble once, and was able to easily backslide out a bit before anything happened.

I've been encouraged to try a camera suit (with small, i.e. not clipped over the laterals, wings), and will hopefully get to borrow one from a similarly-sized jumper in the next couple of weeks. I know she sometimes flies with weights, and I find it encouraging to see in the last post that weights can theoretically be avoided for people our size.

Anyway, that's the background, and now here are the specific questions (again, I'm getting advice from local camera flyers first, but want to open it up as well, with appropriate internet skepticism):

-If I order a camera suit, is there anything I should definitely go for (aside from tight and nylon) or avoid? Any brand recommendations? (My DZ works with Rainbow Suits.)

-Aside from what's already been said in this thread, any new fast-falling tips?

-One thing I notice (and I'll have some local jumpers look at exit videos soon and see if we can figure this out), is that I exit very close to the team (good) (I do a "follow" exit rather than a "just before" exit, as the timing for the "just before" exit is a lot more demanding), then quickly gain separation on the hill (bad), and have to catch back up coming off the hill. Is this a common beginner problem? Any advice for staying with the team through the hill?

-Any general advice for an aspiring camera flyer, lightweight or not?

Thanks, and blue skies!

Edited by drdm

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