airbigdaddy 0 #1 February 9, 2014 Just wanted to get a straw-poll reaction to this. (Some of you may have already seen this, since Lara from Blue Skies Magazine ran a brief blurb about it.) A jumping buddy of mine was in Israel (he's from there) and ran into a gigantic billboard for a restaurant with my ugly mug on it. Thing is that I never gave the restaurant the pic, nor did the photographer (freefly badass Matt Hill). At first (and still somewhat), it was just kind of funny, but I'd be lying if I said it doesn't piss me off a tad that they took a pic of me and blasted it across a building without permission. Taking it even further, they've got me on their friggin' takeout bags, menus, their website, etc. (Yes, I realize that the photographer owns the image, and if anything, HE should be pissed off, but does that give them the right to use an image OF me commercially?) Please know that while a few of my best friends are lawyers, I absolutely hate how litigious our society has become. (I live in the U.S.) But, even with them in Israel and me back here, it seems like they surely violated SOME sort of law, no? Not trying to go on a witch hunt, but just wondering how much, if any, say the photographer and I have to what they do with a stolen image. As for a guess where they got the pic, I'm not sure. It has been run (with permission) in a U.S. mag before (for no compensation, just as a donation for an article on our DZ), and it has been on Facebook (albeit lower-res), so I'm not positive where they would have gotten a high-enough-res version to blow up to billboard size. I have heard that if someone alters an image a certain amount (like they did with the colors of my jumpsuit and by flipping the image) that perhaps what they did wasn't illegal. I haven't reached out to the restaurant yet because I'm not yet sure what my approach should be (i.e. Pissed off? Curious where they got the pic? etc.). Just curious what you all think. Thanks. (I will say there is sweet, strange irony in the fact that I'm a 23-year vegan, and they're using me to advertise a burger joint.) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=427920933949165&set=pb.140187839389144.-2207520000.1391976863.&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=436128469795078&set=pb.140187839389144.-2207520000.1391975643.&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=396859883721937&set=pb.140187839389144.-2207520000.1391975646.&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=425550057519586&set=pb.140187839389144.-2207520000.1391976863.&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=295096553898271&set=pb.140187839389144.-2207520000.1391977371.&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=386410808100178&set=pb.140187839389144.-2207520000.1391977332.&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=378634782211114&set=pb.140187839389144.-2207520000.1391977332.&type=3&theater (Original image attached.)-Lambert- "It's better to be looked over than overlooked." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #2 February 9, 2014 You know this is my area of specialty... I'm not a lawyer, I just pretend to know a lot about copyright law.And fortunately for you, it's a really, really easy conversation (inside the USA). Israel also is a signatory of Berne and DMCA, so this is a super easy conversation other than the time zones/distance. A-get a written statement from the photog that he didn't license the image. B-Write your own statement that says you haven't granted anyone the right to your image. C-contact the restaurant's exec team and share these two items with them and ask them how they'd like to settle the matter. Altering an image in any way does not dismiss the illlegality. You're referencing derivative works, and in this case, derivations don't apply. They're not building new works built upon portions of the original image. They've using the whole image. Chances are fair they bought the image from a stock house that obtained it illegally, or via the rights you granted another publisher. Either way, it's a fairly simple conversation to have. And in their financial best interests to dismiss it as quickly as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMark 1 #3 February 9, 2014 They have invested a lot of money into using your image, seems like you should a least get a pair of shoes out of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maxx 1 #4 February 10, 2014 I could advise you to some fabulous lawyers, but only for Germany, but in Isreal the law is completely different.. In Germany you could easily injunct them, as they are already using it on several media without your consent. Means, that they will have call back and destroy everything with your picture on it. This would cost them a lot of $$$ and give them bad press, so I bet they are more than willing to deal with you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisD 0 #5 February 10, 2014 Personally, IMO, I would give them a call, indicate you want to speak with them face to face, at their expense, round trip air first class, at the Red Sea Spa, at their expense, for two weeks, at their expense, all meals included, again at their expense,... Good luck CBut what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #6 February 10, 2014 Actually, Germany and Israel aren't *all* that different. Both subscribe to WIPO, both are signatories of DCMA, both are signatories of Berne. Stopping them from using the image requires legal action in both countries, and given Lambert's proximity, an exporatory phonecall or email will likely start a productive line of conversation. If anyone is interested in reading the most recent Israeli legislation on copyright, it's a fairly simple read. In the USA, man....could one have some serious fun. Imagine how great it would be if the food chain bought the image from a USA stock house? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 749 #7 February 10, 2014 I'm reminded of Rick Ream's photo in a local Applebees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #8 February 10, 2014 DSEActually, Germany and Israel aren't *all* that different. Both subscribe to WIPO, both are signatories of DCMA, both are signatories of Berne. Stopping them from using the image requires legal action in both countries, and given Lambert's proximity, an exporatory phonecall or email will likely start a productive line of conversation. If anyone is interested in reading the most recent Israeli legislation on copyright, it's a fairly simple read. In the USA, man....could one have some serious fun. Imagine how great it would be if the food chain bought the image from a USA stock house? Only one side comment. With respect to the use of the copyrighted image, you're of course right. But with respect to his likeness (appearance) being used, that's more complicated. The photographer/author holds the right to the copyright (unless he assigned it elsewhere, of course), but the subject/model has either likeness rights or publicity rights with respect to his own appearance/visage. The amount by which publicity rights are actually protected varies from state to state a lot in the US; I have no idea about his rights in Israel. If the subject is really serious about a legal challenge, he'd be better off cooperating with the copyright owner than trying to do so on his own.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #9 February 10, 2014 That was my point earlier, Jeff, was that the subject has not given the photographer the right to sell/license the image, and then also offer up evidence that the photographer has indicated he has not sold/licensed the image. According to Lambert, neither did he give permission to the photographer to use the image outside of the specific use (magazine) nor did the photographer grant any license to anyone either. You're the lawyer, I just pretend. However, those two instruments seem to be the best starting point for a conversation with the user of the image, if Lambert is wanting to avoid litigation, no? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #10 February 10, 2014 Let's see a copy of the model release. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #11 February 10, 2014 Yep - I didn't read the whole thread closely enough. Totally agree with your approach.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #12 February 11, 2014 DSE Actually, Germany and Israel aren't *all* that different. Both subscribe to WIPO, both are signatories of DCMA, both are signatories of Berne. I agree with you, but still one of the two will then sue you for reasons who belong to Speaker's Corner and then you'd earn a Godwin point scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rblwthacoz 0 #13 February 11, 2014 Something similar to this was posted last month on the NYTimes. A family picture showed up on the side of a building in Brazil: http://tinyurl.com/mzdhnfx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #14 February 11, 2014 normiss I'm reminded of Rick Ream's photo in a local Applebees. good luck getting your food down while looking at this mug I talked to the manager and apparently the corporate office had locals send in pics for a wall mural. not sure who sent this one inYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #15 February 11, 2014 Did you get a burger and a beer out of the deal ? smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #16 February 17, 2014 Many DZs' waiver actually has a model release section. Most of them states that anyone can be photographed the DZ and its associates can use the images for any purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fencebuster 7 #17 February 17, 2014 Skydive Orange's waiver has that very provision.Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208 AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #18 February 17, 2014 QuoteA jumping buddy of mine was in Israel (he's from there) and ran into a gigantic billboard for a restaurant with my ugly mug on it. Thing is that I never gave the restaurant the pic, nor did the photographer (freefly badass Matt Hill). Not covered by dz waver... let's see the model release the company has or the media co, that sold the media to them has, was the point. If I Joe fun jumper, jump with my buddy who is not an employee of said dz and he takes a kick ass pic of me, gives me a copy if it, I post it the facebook or DZ,com and some marketing or stock house takes that image and sells it to a company for marketing and they use it all over.... that is not covered by any damn dz waver, end of story! Nor dose the dz own the copy rights to said image if it's not done under a contract for hire with the dz.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #19 February 17, 2014 Go to the restaurant and get free food .. simples (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wicodefly 0 #20 February 20, 2014 Free burgers for life!! Oh, wait.Chance favors the prepared mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #21 March 20, 2014 Any update? Just because I'm curious"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #22 April 10, 2014 Southern_ManAny update? Just because I'm curious ReBump! Any news?____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airbigdaddy 0 #23 June 4, 2014 Sorry for the slow reply; I'm rarely on DZ.com. Life just slowed down a tad recently, so I'm hoping to make some headway on this soon. I'll post an update if anything comes of it.-Lambert- "It's better to be looked over than overlooked." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ouch 0 #24 June 4, 2014 I wonder if you would also have a defamation case, completely separate to the copyright argument. If reasonable people see the pic of you associated with burgers, they might think a lot less of you. They might conclude you are lying about being a vegan. Worth asking somebody who knows the relevent laws for your area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #25 June 4, 2014 Nice one!____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
