So, You Want to Be a Rigger?

[Rigger226 0]

According to the rules you must serve as a military rigger in order to qualify for the military competency exam, so no I don't believe you are able to use that. Also curious how you have packed T-11R's and MC-4 reserves without being a rigger. It doesn't make sense, and according to the regulations that guide us military riggers, is illegal I believe.

[theonlyski 2]

Quote

According to the rules you must serve as a military rigger in order to qualify for the military competency exam, so no I don't believe you are able to use that. Also curious how you have packed T-11R's and MC-4 reserves without being a rigger. It doesn't make sense, and according to the regulations that guide us military riggers, is illegal I believe.

If they know a rigger well, the rigger can let them come play in the packing shed, none of it has to go in the air though.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[promise5 17]

I read through and I didn't see anything mentioned that you have to be a jumper in order to become a rigger. If I only jump tandem am I still able to become a rigger?

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Bertt 0]

You do not have to be a jumper to be an FAA certified parachute rigger.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[excaza 1]

It can certainly help to jump, but it is not required.

[JerryBaumchen 772]

Hi promise,

As others have said, no req'ment to be a jumper.

The old Master Rigger that I got my license from had gotten his license about 317 yrs ago when was in the Navy. The Navy req'd that you jump your own pack job. They used a hot-air baloon with a gang-plank. He said that he walked out onto the plank, pulled the ripcord, the pilot chute & canopy fell onto the plank and then he jumped. Well, it must have opened because he trained me.

JerryBaumchen

[promise5 17]

lol lol lol

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Specialk_102 0]

AWESOME!!! thank you!!!!!

[skykatherine 0]

Thanks for the great resource. It might be 10 years old, and some links don't work, but it's still very relevant. Thanks for that!

[riggerrob 452]

Does anyone have contact information for FAA DPRE Mikey Millor in Washington State?

This relates to a question about FAA DPREs doing practical tests outside of the continental USA. Is that even an approved procedure?

Rob Warner, FAA Master Rigger (back, seat and chest)

CSPA Rigger Examiner

Strong TIE

[IanHarrop 26]

11 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Does anyone have contact information for FAA DPRE Mikey Millor in Washington State?

This relates to a question about FAA DPREs doing practical tests outside of the continental USA. Is that even an approved procedure?

Rob Warner, FAA Master Rigger (back, seat and chest)

CSPA Rigger Examiner

Strong TIE

I searched the FAA site and found a similar name, sent in DM in case I'm wrong. Check your messages

Here's where I looked https://designee.faa.gov/#/designeeLocator

[mark 88]

3 hours ago, riggerrob said:

This relates to a question about FAA DPREs doing practical tests outside of the continental USA. Is that even an approved procedure?

Requests to test outside the supervising FSDO's geographical area must be approved by the FSDO that has appointed the DPRE and the FSDO/IFO (International Field Office) where the test will occur.

The test location must be approved, to ensure it is adequate for the test.  This may require a site visit.

The FSDO/IFO where the test will occur may wish to observe the test, but I don't think such travel would be funded -- the IFO for Canada is in Houston, Texas.

I don't know of any DPREs who have tested outside the US.   

Also, your applicants will need to submit an 8610-2 Rating Application Form to a FSDO, and because of St George, FSDOs are reluctant to accept applications from outside their geographic areas.  Pre-Covid, applicants were required to appear in person.  And there are a couple extra steps a DPRE must take before testing someone whose application has been approved by a FSDO other than the one supervising the DPRE. 

Your applicants will likely also have to travel to the US to take their written tests.

Discouraged yet?  It might be easier to move your course to the US.

[riggerrob 452]

Yes, DPRE Jay Stokes and DPRE Bob Celaya said that it is difficult - bordering on impossible - to gain FAA approval for testing outside the USA. An FAA official inspecting the testing site (e.g. loft) is only part of the process.

DPRE Mikey Morrill said - over the phone - that a letter of recommendation is no longer required.

The FAA FSDO in Houston does not officially cover questions from Canada, but they pick up their phone more often than other FSDOs, so answer more questions.

So a Canadian rigger applying for an FAA rigger rating must go through a similar process as a new American rigger: Form 8610-2, present logbooks to an FAA FSDO, "written" test and practical test.

I did that whole process back in 1988 with the FSDO in Syracuse, New York and DPRE Dave DeWolf.

[Deisel 28]

On 10/2/2022 at 6:15 PM, riggerrob said:

Yes, DPRE Jay Stokes and DPRE Bob Celaya said that it is difficult - bordering on impossible - to gain FAA approval for testing outside the USA. 

That's interesting. I've been learning to fly in Germany and Japan over the last 3 years. They both have well established procedures for FAA examiners to regularly come out to conduct check rides in the local area. Covid travel restrictions prevented me from doing a check ride because the examiners have been prohibited from coming out. I would have assumed that the same procedures apply to DPREs. 

[mark 88]

40 minutes ago, Deisel said:

They both have well established procedures for FAA examiners to regularly come out to conduct check rides in the local area.

Are these examiners FAA employees?  If so, how are their travel expenses covered?

Or are they DPEs?  If so, who is prohibiting them from traveling?

[Deisel 28]

16 hours ago, mark said:

Are these examiners FAA employees?  If so, how are their travel expenses covered?

Or are they DPEs?  If so, who is prohibiting them from traveling?

Good questions which I don't know the answer to. I had assumed that they were FAA employees and that the students being tested were covering the travel expenses. I'll shoot a note to the aero clubs and ask for a clarification. 

[riggerrob 452]

An FAA Parachute Rigger Examiner would be a long-term FAA employee (civil servant) who administers oral and practical examinations of potential riggers. While a number of FAA employees are riggers, few have the depth of knowledge to become Examiners.

To fill this depth of knowledge, the FAA DESIGNATES well-respected civilian Master Parachute Riggers as EXAMINERS. These DPREs learn the finer points of FAA paperwork, then start examining potential riggers. DPREs operate semi-independently from FAA Flight Standards District Offices, setting their own hours and pay rates. However, the free market keeps fees similar across the board.

DPRE travelling expenses are rarely an issue since it is difficult - bordering on impossible - for DPREs to gain approval to test outside their primary area (related to an FAA FSDO). Most DPREs do all their testing at a single - FAA approved - loft.

[JerryBaumchen 772]

43 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

An FAA Parachute Rigger Examiner would be a long-term FAA employee (civil servant) who administers oral and practical examinations of potential riggers. While a number of FAA employees are riggers, few have the depth of knowledge to become Examiners.

To fill this depth of knowledge, the FAA DESIGNATES well-respected civilian Master Parachute Riggers as EXAMINERS. These DPREs learn the finer points of FAA paperwork, then start examining potential riggers. DPREs operate semi-independently from FAA Flight Standards District Offices, setting their own hours and pay rates. However, the free market keeps fees similar across the board.

DPRE travelling expenses are rarely an issue since it is difficult - bordering on impossible - for DPREs to gain approval to test outside their primary area (related to an FAA FSDO). Most DPREs do all their testing at a single - FAA approved - loft.

Hi Rob,

Re:  An FAA Parachute Rigger Examiner would be a long-term FAA employee (civil servant) who administers oral and practical examinations of potential riggers.

Length of service with the FAA is not a req'ment.  We had a local FAA-type who had about 20 yrs in civilian aviation, non-FAA employment, and about 2 yrs with the FAA give me the exam for my Master Rigger seat ticket.  Although, he had attended an FAA Rigger's School; in Oklahoma City, I think.

When he examined me, I had packed only one seat pack; and that was without supervision.  He waived the 20 pack job req'ment.

The federal gov't can designate as it chooses, it does possess that authority.  I worked with a guy who had a degree in Civil Engineering and worked for the federal gov't in that capacity.  One Monday morning he came to work and was now an Electrical Engineer.

Re:  To fill this depth of knowledge, the FAA DESIGNATES well-respected civilian Master Parachute Riggers as EXAMINERS.

A bunch of yrs ago the local FSDO asked me to become a DPRE.  I seriously considered it.  Then I looked into the costs, paperwork [ substantial ] and turned them down.  My hat is off to any DPRE.

Jerry Baumchen

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by JerryBaumchen

[riggerrob 452]

On 12/19/2012 at 5:41 PM, promise5 said:

I read through and I didn't see anything mentioned that you have to be a jumper in order to become a rigger. If I only jump tandem am I still able to become a rigger?

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

There is no requirement for civilian parachute riggers to jump. The FAA lumps parachute riggers in with aircraft maintenance technicians and mechanics. 

OTOH military riggers might have to jump as part of their quality control system. The keep them honest, many armies require their riggers to do a few jumps every month. Typically, this is with parachutes that they packed 119 days ago (assuming a 120 day repack cycle), that will go "out of date" if they are not jumped.

The Canadian Army insists that all their parachute riggers stay current on static-line jumps and those riggers that are freefall qualified also have to do a few MFP jumps. Passing the Basic Parachutist Course (2 weeks of push-ups followed by 2 days of static-line jumps) is one of the courses that a Canadian Army rigger must pass before he/she is fully qualified.

The Royal Canadian Air Force has a different attitude, not requiring riggers to jump the ejection seats that they repack.

[sfzombie13 286]

1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

The Royal Canadian Air Force has a different attitude, not requiring riggers to jump the ejection seats that they repack.

i doubt that's by choice, probably more like they don't like losing aircraft for testing the pack jobs.  i'm sure they would require them to test if there was a way to do it.  could they lose one seat on a plane and still land it?

[riggerrob 452]

The RCAF operated a specially modified CT-133 Silver Star trainer to test ejection seats. It has based at CFB Cold Lake, Alberta and assigned to the test squadron. They fired ejection seats out of it multiple times. Now that CT-133 have reitred ...

Martin-Baker operated a similarly-equipped pair of Gloster Meteors for many years.