Emergency Procedures consolidated

[canatheart 0]

So I have read countless posts in this forum and I don't quite have a firm grasp on how my EPs will change once I begin jumping with a camera on my head. I will be consulting with experienced camera jumpers once the season starts, but I want to be as prepared mentally as I can be now...can we maybe consolidate how EPs change when jumping as a camera person (assuming I'm wearing wings and a cutaway system) and how to deal with each situation? Maybe have the same scenarios but with RSL connected/not connected if it changes the proceedures. Thanks!

[johnmatrix 21]

This is a good question - I've read a lot of posts intimating that someone or other is doing it wrong but I'd like to hear exactly what the experienced people do...

[DSE 3]

The wings aren't going to change what you do in terms of EP's, assuming you don't disconnect them before you release your toggles. It's important to be sure you have a properly flying canopy before releasing wing clips and having flapping fabric.
Adding helmet cutaway touches to your EP checks is a good idea.

Touch your main, then your cutaway, then your helmet cutaway, then your reserve handle.

Opinions vary on this, but I'm a fan of using the RSL, for _most_ camera setups. Yes, you could have a helmet entanglement, and an RSL might make that situation worse.

Either way, have a cutaway on your camera helmet. Practice reaching for it. Make it part of your routine maintenance (check lolon for lubrication, check pins if any, for rust, make sure it works cleanly/properly every few months).

[canatheart 0]

So release the brakes BEFORE unclipping the wings?

So let's go through an entanglement...would you automatically cut away your helmet? If it's a low speed mal but you can't free your helmet, would you try cutting the line first? If you cutaway your helmet, how high is the probability that you would have to follow that by a main cutaway?

[dragon2 0]

Quote

So release the brakes BEFORE unclipping the wings?

Generally, no, because otherwise you would have to let go of your brakes again to unclip your wings.

Quote

So let's go through an entanglement...would you automatically cut away your helmet? If it's a low speed mal but you can't free your helmet, would you try cutting the line first?

People have died trying to cut a line, a bridle, etc so NO.

Quote

If you cutaway your helmet, how high is the probability that you would have to follow that by a main cutaway?

If you cutaway your helmet because it is entagled with your main, releasing the helmet will likely mean it is now dangling from your main (read: banging into you /your head) and you will still need to get rid of it. Altitude permitting you valuate the new situation quickly, but I would think almost all cases you will still need to cutaway the main, unless releasing the helmet freed it from the main too and there is no damage, other problem with the main.

Basically, when you start jumping camera, same as with your main, don't hesitate to jettison it should you need to.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Skwrl 56]

Quote

So release the brakes BEFORE unclipping the wings?

So let's go through an entanglement...would you automatically cut away your helmet? If it's a low speed mal but you can't free your helmet, would you try cutting the line first? If you cutaway your helmet, how high is the probability that you would have to follow that by a main cutaway?

Here's an example of how NOT to do it. https://vimeo.com/37998866 (Yeah, I post this video a lot...)

Here's my plan. [Despite a bunch of cutaways (mostly spinning line twists from wingsuting), I've thankfully not yet had to execute on this version of my EPs, but the following is my plan.]

If my main is entangled in my helmet, I am going to make exactly one attempt with my hands to untangle the line. I will not attempt to cut it. If I can't clear the attempt quickly with one attempt, I will cut the helmet away, keeping in mind that (depending on how it's entangled) the helmet might whack me in the head or might go flying off my head, who knows... If, after cutting away the helmet, the problem still exists, I will cut away the main.

Now, you mention "low speed". I think you mean a situation where "the canopy is out, but it's not flying straight and level". If it is entangled, it is highly probable that at least some of the lines are being pulled shorter than you would find in normal flight. If that's the case, it's likely turning, and more likely than not in a bit of a dive. A diving canopy cuts through altitude pretty damn fast, and I will not screw around with my helmet while it does so. I will use the same approach as I described above.

If I somehow have an entangled mess that is causing a slow, flat turn, I might make an additional attempt - with my hands - to remove the lines before cutting away the helmet. But realistically, that's not going to happen...

I don't take the decision to cut away my helmet lightly - I've got a ton of pricey toys on it. But if I'm dead, I can't use my pricey toys any more (as far as I know), so I'd rather cut them away.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[DSE 3]

Here is a scenario:

Tandem videographer has a normal deployment (he's done this around 1000 times).
Unclips wings.
Releases toggles, apparently one was not stowed correctly.
Canopy goes into a highspeed spin (highly loaded canopy).
Camera wings cover handles.
AAD was out for service (likely wouldn't have fired anyway)
No RSL.
Fatality.

This leads to the conclusion that you want to have a there, square, steerable canopy prior to unclipping wings.
No, I don't suggest you cutaway the helmet "no matter what." If the main or reserve entangle with it, there may be force upon it, so you might want to jettison the helmet. Some feel a Fastex can be released under pressure. Having tried it in a few circumstances, I can tell you they don't release easily.
I've had two chops while wearing a full camera setup. Neither time have I needed to chop. I had an RSL on one of those chops.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

Quote

Touch your main, then your cutaway, then your helmet cutaway, then your reserve handle.

I prefer to do:

Main, helmet cutaway, cutaway, reserve.

I almost had to use the helmet cutaway a few weeks ago but managed to unsnag the line with my first attempt.

I wouldn't fancy chopping a main that my head was still attached on to! I have found sometimes the cutaway on my helmet gets sucked up inside so checking it as part of the handle check is certainly a good idea.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[Zlew 0]

Different wing setups might be different, but I usually don't unclip my wings. Undoing the hand/thumb loops give me all the mobility I need to fly and land. I usually jump med wings, so the drag they create under canopy really isn't a big deal.

My old jumpsuit that had fastex clips attaching the wings to my upper leg were real easy to unclip. Now I use the RSL shackles that attache the wing by wrapping it arond my legstrap. They are not hard to release, but not as mindless as the clips on my leg.

[canatheart 0]

Really great information...gives me a lot to think about! Any other potential scenarios that might seem obvious to you but not so much to a camera newbie like me?

[johnmatrix 21]

My setup:

Top mounted CX100 on Cookie helmet
Cutaway on chin cup
Skyhook
No camera wings (yet)

I have the RSL connected at all times and plan to do my EPs as normal, unless something snags on my helmet at which point I will cutaway the chin cup.

Am I going to get killed?

One thing I've thought of regarding the Skyhook is that I should probably keep my head down when I have to chop, rather than look up at the departing canopy, as the reserve bridle will be getting pulled up by the main directly behind my head.

[dragon2 0]

Quote

I should probably keep my head down when I have to chop, rather than look up at the departing canopy

Neither. What have you been taught about EPs? Head back and ARCH sound familiar?


What happens with your arch when you look down?

Look at the main canopy departing? Why? So you get it on video?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Skwrl 56]

Quote

I have the RSL connected at all times and plan to do my EPs as normal, unless something snags on my helmet at which point I will cutaway the chin cup.

Am I going to get killed?

Not sure why you would - what I was saying related only to when there is a helmet/main entanglement.

Quote

Neither. What have you been taught about EPs? Head back and ARCH sound familiar?

I'm not so sure it's entirely that cut and dry. I use a Skyhook RSL, too, and there is a lot of debate about whether the departing main (which is pulling out the reserve) changes the angle at which the reserve comes out (as compared to how it normally comes out). In other words, the Skyhook - so the theory goes - causes the reserve to come out closer to the back of the head than it would otherwise. There are heated debates on dizzy.com (and elsewhere) as to whether that should change what people like us with a lot of tall crap on our helmets should do with our heads as a result. I don't really know where I come out on that debate - I leave it to smarter folks to figure it out.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[Zlew 0]

Recent thread talking about RSL and SKyhook for video.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4408973;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

[pattersd 0]

Quote

I leave it to smarter folks to figure it out.

I hope they figure it out for you before your next cutaway!

[Skwrl 56]

Quote

Quote

I leave it to smarter folks to figure it out.

I hope they figure it out for you before your next cutaway!

I'm going to do, it's just that I don't feel that I've seen enough data to recommend that anyone else do what I've decided to do. Edited to add: It's the difference between assuming a course of action that potentially creates a risk for oneself versus being confident enough with that course of action to recommend it to others.

With stuff like this, I prefer to mention the controversy and let others decide for themselves. After all, I'm not an instructor of anything skydiving related. I just like taking (hopefully pretty) pictures of people flying wingsuits.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[johnmatrix 21]

Quote

Quote

I should probably keep my head down when I have to chop, rather than look up at the departing canopy

Neither. What have you been taught about EPs? Head back and ARCH sound familiar?


What happens with your arch when you look down?

Look at the main canopy departing? Why? So you get it on video?

Yes that's what I was taught - but then I started to wonder about the possibility of entanglement with the reserve bridle. I haven't had to chop yet but I think when it happens I'll do it as I was trained to do - i.e. arch.
As far as looking up at the main is concerned, yes I believe it's a dumb idea to try and get it on video but I reckon in the heat of the moment it would tempting. But then again, if you're arching, you'd have your head back, so it'd be the same difference wouldn't it? Like I said though I haven't had to chop yet so it's mainly a hypothetical discussion for me at this point.

Anyway thanks for all the responses, I couldn't be bothered putting all your names in the subject line. :)

[Zlew 0]

I personally don't like the idea of having my head back and sticking all my gear any closer to my reserve PC/lines/Bag and such when you chop/pop. I don't really think it will be much of an issue though since most people look down when they chop (to look at their handles). I don't have an RSL, so I have a moment or two to get back belly to earth (edit- if I choose to not instantly deploy my reserve), and I don't think looking up or down would matter as much since in theory the deployment would be at more of a 90 degree angle to your head, compared to flying right by it if you deploy closer to a standing (or tumbling through space....) position right after you chop..

I might be more conservative than some on this...but I don't want my helmet gear any closer to the last parachute I have than I have to.