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CMiller

Open door on takeoff

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Apparently we are now allowed to open the door on takeoff. Nobody I talked to seems to think this is a bad idea, but my reasoning is:

A pilote chute out the door with a seatbelt on is extra bad.
A pilot chute out the door with insufficient altitude for a main to open is bad.

Am I missing something?

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At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.



What about an aircraft that has no door? Like a C206 with a cargo door (that isn't there)?
Peace,
-Dawson.
http://www.SansSuit.com
The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving

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What about it?


I was asking diablopilot if he would jump a C206 that doesn't have a door.



I don't mind an aircraft that does not have a door, but if there is a door available, I would prefer to have it closed for take off.

Why? Well, it is a good safety choice and if you become a heat casualty due to sitting in a jump plane on take off with the door closed, then your health choices are poor. Drink more water, party less the night before...whatever it may be.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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How exactly is the best way to approach people about this issue? I don't want to seem like a dick, and nobody closes the door when I mention it when I am in a plane and it happens.



Takeoffs with the door open make no sense. Cooling the plane off a bit during the short period of time needed to get from the ground to 1000 or 1500 feet isn't worth the risk of what would happen if a pilot chute went out the door.

I would start with the DZO or S&TA, and politely explain the possibilities when people are belted into the plane near the door with the door open.

Bottom line: seat belts on with the door open is dangerous for everyone on the plane.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Wouldn't bother me any, then again when I started we didn't have no stinking door to close and we had all kinds of handles and and shit sticking out all over the place. You learned to cover your handles and move very careful about the AC ever mindful of the belly wart if near the door.

(we didn't have doors or seat belts till later on, belts were after the door came in fashion)

It used to freak me out, but I got over it.... but I have always been mindful of my movements, open or closed door.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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Wouldn't bother me any, then again when I started we didn't have no stinking door to close and we had all kinds of handles and and shit sticking out all over the place. You learned to cover your handles and move very careful about the AC ever mindful of the belly wart if near the door.

(we didn't have doors or seat belts till later on, belts were after the door came in fashion)

It used to freak me out, but I got over it.... but I have always been mindful of my movements, open or closed door.



This is the way I feel about it. The other day I had the opportunity to ride a C206 with the door off. Yeah, there are dangers that you need to be aware of but be careful and those dangers are mitigated.

And then there is the WFFC 412. No chance of a pilot chute getting loose under that extremely controlled configuration. ;)
Peace,
-Dawson.
http://www.SansSuit.com
The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving

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I think the door open issue has alot to do with drag on a multi-engine aircraft if one engine quits. Not sure which engine would be a problem but I think losing the engine opposite the side of the door would create a yaw that would be more difficult to handle of the door were open.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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All in all...if there is a door available, why risk leaving it open? It does create extra drag to leave it open and there is the risk of a PC out issue. If we are required to have seat belts on until 1000 feet, then the door should be closed.
Personally, I have sat by an open door many times in the past for takeoff and preferred it, because I was doing video and you get a better video. Was it the safest decision? No. Why risk it if the door is there?
~"I am not afraid. I was born to do this"~

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Wouldn't bother me any, then again when I started we didn't have no stinking door to close and we had all kinds of handles and and shit sticking out all over the place. You learned to cover your handles and move very careful about the AC ever mindful of the belly wart if near the door.

(we didn't have doors or seat belts till later on, belts were after the door came in fashion)

It used to freak me out, but I got over it.... but I have always been mindful of my movements, open or closed door.



The difference was A) as you pointed out you didn't have seatbelts, and B) Skydivers were much smarter then.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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How exactly is the best way to approach people about this issue? I don't want to seem like a dick, and nobody closes the door when I mention it when I am in a plane and it happens.



Make sure to be clear it's about not having the door open when people are belted in so no one gets ripped in half and/or crashes the plane. People that are stubborn about wanting to have the door open at all times tend to have misonceptions about why it's a dumbass idea. I might have a chat with Lob next weekend while I'm out there.

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Yeah, I don't really care what's "allowed"... If I'm there I close the door until seat belts are off at 1000 ft and people get done moving to the floor and shifting around.



Are you comfy pulling your either your reserve or main at 1000 ft? I'm not (reserve is close I guess). If the pilot wants it closed to a certain altitude x, and I'm comfy at altitude y for reserve exit, and all the seatbelts are off. then door opens at the higher of x and y. (If I'm at the door). let TMs bitch for another minute - they will live.


My favorite is when a DZ has a closed door policy of any kind - so the jumpers only open the door 3-6 inches or so. I like that - it's big enough for a pilot chute to escape, just not a body........:S the door should either be open, or closed, part way is really just stupid

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Yeah, I don't really care what's "allowed"... If I'm there I close the door until seat belts are off at 1000 ft and people get done moving to the floor and shifting around.



Are you comfy pulling your either your reserve or main at 1000 ft? I'm not (reserve is close I guess). If the pilot wants it closed to a certain altitude x, and I'm comfy at altitude y for reserve exit, and all the seatbelts are off. then door opens at the higher of x and y. (If I'm at the door). let TMs bitch for another minute - they will live.



I'd get out on my reserve at a grand. Having done some clear and pull jumps on the same make/model as a main, I'm pretty happy with how fast it opens out the door. But again, it's not so much about the altitude as it is about the seatbelts.

If the seatbelts are off and the door is open on an Otter, then a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for one person. I think by 1000ft the risk of it happening vs the odds that it can be handled by a jumper are reasonable. I'm familiar with the WFFC incident a few years back where the premature deployed into the horizontal stabilizer, but that guy climbed out and held on all the way to inflation which wouldn't happen in the case we're talking about.

If the seatbelts are on and the door is open a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for the whole plane whether you're at 1000ft or not. The risk of it happening isn't really any greater than in the above case but the stakes are much much higher.

Waiting to open the door until people get done scooting around, moving to the floor, etc. should be self explanitory.

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My favorite is when a DZ has a closed door policy of any kind - so the jumpers only open the door 3-6 inches or so. I like that - it's big enough for a pilot chute to escape, just not a body........:S the door should either be open, or closed, part way is really just stupid



Yeah, that's another silly "compromise." Although if a pilot chute does pull a d-bag out the bottom of the door the person attached to it is going right through that sliderblind. So it doesn't present as much of a hazard to the rest of the jumpers as having seatbelts on with the door open.

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