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jtnesbitt

Final Cut Pro X

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I know a lot of info isnt out yet but based on what is out what is everyone's thoughts?

Personally I'm pretty excited. I'm pretty familiar with PC editing software but only had a mac about a year and most my editing has been on the iMovie side. I'm still surprised at the quality and range iMovie 11 has. Anyway, FCPX looks like they have combined FCP and iMovie. Should be an easy transition for folks like me that want to get into more serious editing.

Pros:
-Price $300
-Easier interface
-no longer have to buy a suite of other things you wont use
-better importing with audio and color correction
-64bit!

Looking at whats on the table this summer, someone could get a new MBP with thunderbolt and FCPX and have a nice little mobile editing set up at the DZ.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

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I doubt FCPX will be anything like iMovie except perhaps the look of the windows. iMovie is a very simple program where FCP is very complex.

I can't wait to try it out. I just hope they make it easier to add transitions between clips and such.

As it stands you have to add handles before and after your clips to allow for the transition to overlap the video. Programs such as iMovie do this automatically where FCP made you do it manually giving you total control. Where the control is nice, it really added to the time to edit which made it unusable in a tandem edit scenario, for me. It would be nice if it was useable for tandem videos but I really don't care. iMovie makes a great tandem video and that's good enough for me. However, for larger projects it will be nice to use an updated version of Final Cut. It's an exciting time for Mac video editing to be sure... only time will tell if all the excitement is warranted.

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

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It's still FCP, just not the studio. The "native AVC" (as seen at NAB) isn't native. It's just another way of bullshitting the world. AVCI is native. IFrame AVC. However, they took flack already, so we'll see what gives. The processors they're using have AVC decoding built into the CPU, so it's stupid to not use that power, IMO.

It is a great app for the cost. The list of "new features" is kinda funny, because every single one of em' has been in Vegas since version 2, most of them have been in Premiere for all the CS series, most of them have been in Edius for nearly a decade... They ain't new. Unless you're an ostrich.

But...it will surely open a lot of doors for them. And it *is* sexy.

http://vimeo.com/22345296

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The processors they're using have AVC decoding built into the CPU, so it's stupid to not use that power, IMO.


I'm with you there... IT'S INSANE that they're not taking advantage. I could ALMOST see it if they had to *add* something but if it's there already... seems like a no brainer. Apple really pisses me off sometimes. :P

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The list of "new features" is kinda funny, because every single one of em' has been in Vegas since version 2


This may be true but Vegas isn't available for mac so it really doesn't matter.

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They ain't new. Unless you're an ostrich.


They are new though... for Final Cut.

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But...it will surely open a lot of doors for them. And it *is* sexy.


I sure hope so. Time will tell. Hell, they may have just destroyed a *good* editing program, sort of like the iMovie UPGRADE. :P I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

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Last week I was involved with a video editing project (non skydiving...). I edited a 1920x1080 5D MarkII footage (1080x1920 H264 29.97fps in MOV container) on my PC. I rendered it to HDV (MPEG-2) since the MOV didn't really have the template for the same output(1080x1920square pixels) exept manually determined resolution which didn't look right. The video looked great anyway after rendering the original 5D MkII footage into HDV.
But I was shocked when FCP wouldn't recognize HDV (MPEG-2) when we tried to import it to a Mac for some color correction and minor sound editing.
I had to learn Mac/Quick Time can't play MPEG-2 neither SD nor HD.
I also have a question to DSE here. In future which codec in MOV would be the best to render a 5D mkII project on a PC to be usable on a Mac as well? All my editing softwares give me a long list of options except H264. H263?

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Any idea how it will handle 5D Mark II footage?



Final Cut Pro X is supposed to have native editing of H.264 clip, which translated to being able to drop 5D/7D/T2i/T3i footage directly into the timeline and be able to preview/edit it realtime without rendering. I have to see it to believe it. This would be big time saver since the present method consists of converting the footage into ProRes via Log and Transfer.
I personally can't wait for the new version since I spend a lot of time color correcting/grading, render, color, render, etc. X is supposed to be able to do that realtime, again, without rendering. We'll see..

4DBill
http://dslrforvideo.com

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Any idea how it will handle 5D Mark II footage?



Final Cut Pro X is supposed to have native editing of H.264 clip, which translated to being able to drop 5D/7D/T2i/T3i footage directly into the timeline and be able to preview/edit it realtime without rendering. I have to see it to believe it. http://dslrforvideo.com



This would be a prudent approach (seeing is believing). I was @ the release, and while an announcement was made, it was not demonstrated like other features were.
Me for one...I'm grateful the DSLR-film craze is about dead.
Laszlo...use .mxf as your intermediary format that will read in both Apple and PC systems. You'll need to download the free .mxf plug for FCP/S from www.sony.com/xdcam.

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Me for one...I'm grateful the DSLR-film craze is about dead.



Somewhat off topics, but..
I respectfully disagree, DSE. I think DSLR film making is growing even more. It's a best way to achieve the big budget film look, for low cost. It’s now commonly used for documentaries, music videos, shorts, TV shows and Indie movies.
I was not at NAB, but there seems to be more DSLR accessories than ever before.
For artistic skydiving shoots, it’s the best camera choice, IMHO, for under $1000. I am going to throw in micro 4/3 here (Panny GH2), even though technically it’s not a DSLR. They are wonderful flexible, especially with lens choices and profile settings, just as using them for for still pictures. They are the wrong tool for fast turn-around tandem videos, but for someone who wants to take it beyond the ‘comcorder’ look, it’s pretty close to Godsend. :)I believe DSLR video is far from dead. There are much better tools out there, BUT when it comes to getting the biggest bang looks for the buck..

4DBill
http://dslrforvideo.com

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Me for one...I'm grateful the DSLR-film craze is about dead.



Somewhat off topics, but..
I respectfully disagree, DSE. I think DSLR film making is growing even more. It's a best way to achieve the big budget film look, for low cost. It’s now commonly used for documentaries, music videos, shorts, TV shows and Indie movies.
I was not at NAB, but there seems to be more DSLR accessories than ever before.
For artistic skydiving shoots, it’s the best camera choice, IMHO, for under $1000. I am going to throw in micro 4/3 here (Panny GH2), even though technically it’s not a DSLR. They are wonderful flexible, especially with lens choices and profile settings, just as using them for for still pictures. They are the wrong tool for fast turn-around tandem videos, but for someone who wants to take it beyond the ‘comcorder’ look, it’s pretty close to Godsend. :)I believe DSLR video is far from dead. There are much better tools out there, BUT when it comes to getting the biggest bang looks for the buck..

4DBill
http://dslrforvideo.com


No...it's not the "best camera choice", IMO. If shallow DOF is what you want for skydiving...sure...shoot that sucker at f4 and rock out. Or shoot at F2 and have even more fun. The rest...all postable.
DSLR Filmmaking is the 720p of the production world.
No...not dead. But dying faster than HD, which is also on it's throes.
The Panny 4/3 isn't worth a damn in the "real world," outside of the projects Panasonic has paid for to use the camera, and when it becomes 16:9/widescreen, the competitors have a full quarter more native res by comparison.

I know, I know...lots of accessories. I can remember when the biggest accessory counter at CES was for the Zune, too (two years after it's release). Somewhere on DMN, you'll see where I took a lot of shit for predicting the demise of Zune. Sure...it's still around. Not many own one.
DSLR is a shit way to make films. It's good for specific applications. With no audio, an entry level cost equal to that of a good HD, low compression camera, and a serious PITA form factor...it's like LP records. Vinyl is still around...but no one smart uses it. It's an aesthetic.
No offense intended, just pointing out the way it is.
HDSLR in mass is already breathing it's last gasp. The guys that bought into HDSLR just don't know it yet.

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No offense intended, just pointing out the way it is.
HDSLR in mass is already breathing it's last gasp. The guys that bought into HDSLR just don't know it yet.




I do not consider myself an expert in the video technology, but I know what is pleasing to my eyes.
Please show me a relatively large sensor camera that shoots 1080p, 24 fps with interchangeable lens and editable custom profile that costs less than $1000 that looks almost as good as film.
Until 3k/4k/5k+ cameras are affordable, I believe DSLRs will continue to dominate the low budget artistic and Indi film market. Like you often say, it's just a tool. At this time, however, there really is not an alternate device that produces a cinematic looking footage as good looking as DSLR or 4/3 for reasonable cost, that does not look videoish.

Both of us trying to predict the future. I guess only time will tell. Let's make a bet.
This year, a HDSLR shot film "Like Crazy" won a grand prize at Sundance. Another "Hell and Back Again" was shot was heavily modified Canon 5D, so it techically does not count as a DSLR, IMO.
I predict that TWO HDSLR films will win next year.
Oh.. I would like a case of Corona please, DSE. :)For good measures, you can even throw in a complimentary wingsuit lesson! heh, heh..

Back on the topic. FCP X, when combined with greatly shot DSLR footage, is going to be a killer combination. I really hope it can do something similar to Abobe Premier Mercury Engine, being able to do things in real time, especially color correcting. Crossing my fingers..

4DBill
http://dslrforvideo.com

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Both of us trying to predict the future. I guess only time will tell. Let's make a bet.
This year, a HDSLR shot film "Like Crazy" won a grand prize at Sundance. Another "Hell and Back Again" was shot was heavily modified Canon 5D, so it techically does not count as a DSLR, IMO.
I predict that TWO HDSLR films will win next year.
Oh.. I would like a case of Corona please, DSE. :)For good measures, you can even throw in a complimentary wingsuit lesson! heh, heh..



Make that bet for 2013, and you've got a deal.
2011 productions for the most part, are already planned, budgeted, and in at least a dozen submissions...already in the can. I don't consider 2011 as part of the "death year."

Look...it's silly to believe DSLR will survive.
DSLR 2000.00 (of value, T2i doesn't count because no one half serious will shoot without an external/HDMI/SDI monitor)
Glass 2000.00 (bottom end of decent, but for sake of argument, we'll go as low as say...500.00?)
External monitor-1K (batteries not included)
Mounting system (Red Rock, Zacuto, etc0 ( 1200.00-3K
Audio package (500.00) (that's a half-ass audio system with no T/C lock)
Been super fun watching a couple guys shooting their Eschelon Film Festival (skydiving film fest). They started with just an HDSLR. Didn't take long til they were asking for loaner gear just to get it as good as their HVX200. Sure...better in low light, better DOF, but a bitch to do any production value.
Add all that up, and compare it with say, an FS100 with a full-frame sensor vs APSC sensor, a real audio package, broadcast viewfinder, interchangeable lenses, 24p(which no one is really giving two shits about in the production world anymore, 60p is the future), T/C, great form factor (you can actually shoot it without mounting system) and the same everything else you love about your DSLR, at a price of about 5800.00 out the door.

Yes, I was indeed at NAB, but if you view my posts on the CreativeCow, you'll see I predicted the death of DSLR back in October.
It's not that I don't like DSLR, I've done a lot of training with the format, produced a few shorts with it, done two television spots with it, and produced media for Canon with it.
It's a PITA for any real use. It'll always be around as a hobbyist format, just like film still is, just like LP's still are, just like tubes are part of any guitarist's arsenal if he's into the aesthetic.
I'm more a diet Dr. Pepper kinda guy...:D

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Not to mention several network TV dramas shot with DSLRs. For me, I like them for short form, talking head, instructional or low-light videos (IMHO, the Achilles heal of "camcorders"). And yes, the form-factor of DSLRs isn't great, particularly for run-and-gun work. But if you are setting up for a static shoot with tripod, monitor, maybe rods, etc., it isn't really a big deal. For concert/event videos, I have to use a video camera if for nothing else than just recording time. I'm sure large sensor video cameras will come down in price some day, but I can't wait for that now. There is nothing in my price range (yet) that comes close to a DSLR with a nice, fast prime lens. But I'm sure that will change eventually. Hell, it always does.

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Thank you for the info Spot!

...the 5D footage looks very nice, but the separate audio recording is a PITA for sure (even if FCP can automatically sync it)
For skydiving (when audio is not required) I can still see the advantage of a DSLR when we have to trade size weight, and pictue qouality.
The new Sony FS100 is very promising for sure, will be a lot better option than any DSLR. (60p, 4:2:2, 4/3, pro audio, relatively light and small)

I think PCs are better and more capable for the buck these days when it comes to NLE. Mac has many limitations. Apple doesn't like to adopt and hadle video formats if it's not invented by Apple. I just experinced again a few days ago...

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The new Sony FS100 is very promising for sure, will be a lot better option than any DSLR. (60p, 4:2:2, 4/3, pro audio, relatively light and small)
reply]

It's actually 4:4:4 out the pipe now. Coupled with the Gemini...this is a scary tool. Panasonic is already making firmware changes, I believe.
Keep in mind, Sony is full 35mm imager; Panasonic 4/3rds is 25% smaller when used in a widescreen config.
60p is the bomb. It's the future. The cadence is as filmic as 24p, and more life-true.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/sonys-nxcam-hd-is-the-nex-fs100-brings-super-35mm-sensor-price/ Here is the NEX FS...it's nice. Not at all heavy.

Apple users just don't get that there are options. Every week we struggle with codec or interlacing issues from FCP users, because they don't see the "other side." They blindly accept what Apple throws at them.
Every single new feature in FCPX is found in every other NLE, and has been part of that NLE workflow for years. In some cases, more than a decade.
But hey...Now Apple has the ability to decode some flavors of AVC (not AVCHD) big whoopie.

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It seems like most FCP 7 editors hate the new FCP X upgrade, probably because it looks and feels so different than what they are used to.
I just got it installed on my MacBook Pro, and real time color correction is godsend! No more adjust, render, tweak, render, more tweak, render. Also, the rolling shutter correction looks pretty exciting, especially for GoPro and DSLR shooters.

Bill
http://4dbill.com

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it's so exciting that even Apple's #1 guys like Rich Harrington and Jeff Greenberg are panning it, saying "This is not usable in a professional environment."
i've had it on my machine for about 10 hours now, and find it to be just as kludgy as ever.

That said...Vegas and Canopus users have enjoyed realtime, renderless processing (of all formats including AVCHD) for about oh...a decade now. :D now if Apple just gives us editing off the card like everyone else, they might make it up to par.

Seriously Bill...why do you think the price dropped to nothing? 50.00 for Motion and compressor? They're *finally* realizing how poor they are in the market.

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DSE,
I am not here to debate what format is better, because we know you have interest in Sony and you think it is the best. You are doing a fantastic job of representing them. That's fine. No argument there. You are entitled.
This thread about FCP X, so instead of concentrating on why Apple sucks compare to Sony, we should be discussing the new features of FCP X, because no matter what, some people will be using it, for whatever reason.
FCP has been working just fine for me and thousands of other users for years. I have nothing against any other NLE programs, but Apple/FCP is what I have, and I really don't have an incentive to switch.
Sure, if somebody gives me the latest notebook with Premier or Vegas loaded, I will use it.
I jump an old Velocity 120. It works for what I need/want it to do. I really don't have a great reason to switch, unless somebody buys me another canopy.
Personally, the biggest frustration of FCP workflow was color correction, because the process was so tediously slow. Since real time color correction, without rendering, is now implemented on FCP X, I am tickled pink. It will give FCP users more incentive to try many more combination of color correcting/grading. Just like every digital photo could use a little enhancement with Photoshop, every footage could use color correction/grading.
True Grit, surely, would not be such a visual delight without the fantastic artistic work of the Colorist, but that's a different topic..
I also like the Smoothcam feature of FCP 7, but often find it quite unusuable due to the noticeability of rolling shutter effect when the footage is stabilized. I am hoping that the new feature will fix that to an acceptable level. When Smoothcam works, without the rolling shutter effect distraction, the result is simply fantastic, making the camera work looks like it's mounted on a gyroscope.

Everyone has different needs. FCP X will not work for Rich Harrington and Jeff Greenberg, but it will work for many others. To simply say it's a poor choice for everyone is silly.

Bill
http://4dbill.com

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I'm grateful the DSLR-film craze is about dead.



You're out of your mind...

I disrespectfully disagree...It's a great concept. The indusrty needs to improve it.

It's cost effective and looks way better than the crap you pass off as professional....
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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