Best lightweight/snag-resistant complete setup

[DocPop 1]

I want to put together a camera helmet which I can use for fun jumps now and for tandem video in the future.

My two main criteria are that it be lightweight and as snag-resistant as possible, with cost being less of a consideration.

I like the look of the Drift HD but from what I have read it won't cut it for video which will be sold to customers.

What cameras (still and video) would you suggest to fit the above criteria?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[lippy 771]

Are you looking to film fun jumps from the outside or shoot POV? What kind of camera helmet do you have/are planning to buy?

I got nuthin

[DocPop 1]

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Are you looking to film fun jumps from the outside or shoot POV? What kind of camera helmet do you have/are planning to buy?

I am really wanting to have a set up to do outside video for tandems, but as I am not yet at the level where I can do that I was going to practice doing outside video of small-way fun jumps.

I have no firm opinions on helmets either (except that I don't really like the look of the flattop style) so feel free to comment on that too.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Bill_K 0]

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I have no firm opinions on helmets either (except that I don't really like the look of the flattop style) so feel free to comment on that too.

What matters most, form or function? I started out with a Rawa, but as I got more jumps and a lot more serious about doing tandem videos I ended up with one of those 'flat' top type helmets because it really was the best platform for what I was trying to do.

Disclaimer - Your experience may vary and I do know others that use Rawa or other similar type helmets very successfully for tandem work. I am just simply saying it was not best for me.

[sinjin 0]

i think the bone head optic/ tonfly helmet type with a side mount video (sony cx 100/110/150) and later to add the still on the top is one route to go. The problem may be if it takes you 2 years to be ready, the camera technology will have changed. In that case any helmet with a go pro will do u fine till u buy the right stuff later when the time comes. that is a decision to be made by you and how many jumps a year you do and when you might be ready. The flat top pro is only if you think u are going to be doing specifically video jumps most of the time. the FTP is heavy but a great video platform. for the still you want to get a cannon xt, xti, xsi with the stock lens for now. again you may wait till you are ready to get the best technology.

dont let life pass you by

[davelepka 4]

Go with one of the CX100 type camera to start, and mount in on top of a Bonehead Optic type helmet. Maybe toss a box over it while you're at it. That will be the lightest, snag resistant, riser-slap proof set up you can get.

Odds are a tapeless HD cam like that will be viable for a few years for shooting tandem video. Even if something newer and better comes along, most DZs will be a few years before they make that new thing mandatory.

As far as still cameras goes, I'd wait and see what's what when you're actaully ready to start getting paid. Maybe the DZ will go for a Go-Pro set up to take a pic every 2 seconds, maybe they'll be cool with one of the point and shoot deals with a wired-in trigger, or they might want a full-on DSLR set up. Either way, I'd start off with the least expensive option, and work your way up from there. Once you start getting paid for your jumps, and learn more about stills, you can upgrade then.

Exactly what you want for a 'full' camera helmet will have a lot to do with what sort of still camera you end up getting. If you get a quick release for your video camera (or the box) when you mount it on your Optic-type helmet, you can use the same type of release to mount it to your flat-top type helmet (if you end up with one of those). This way you can have a full video lid, and a smaller, lighter video-only set up to use when you don't need the full deal and it will be a snap to switch back and forth.

You might end up with a still set up that works on the Optic type helmet, at which point you make sure the still is on a quick release, so you pop it off or on to switch between video/stills or just video.

[DocPop 1]

Thanks for that very complete answer Dave. I have a CX7 - will that work instead of a CX100?

I take the point about technology moving on - I really hope that I will be able to get away without using a DSLR. It seems to me that they are limiting how compact a camera setup can be.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[davelepka 4]

The CX7 looks to be about the same thing as the cx100. In terms of technology, really just go with whatever the DZ requires. As long as the guy signing your checks is happy, then your stuff is good enough for what you're doing.

There are a couple of good point-and-shoot type cameras that are small and light, about the size of a Go-Pro that you can hotwire a bite-switch into. The quality of the pics is good, one guy I think even shot a magazine cover with one. It's the smallest, lightest, and cheapest way to do stills. Do a search, but again it's more about what the DZ wants you to have.

The basic idea is that you don't get paid extra for fancy gear. Your skills as a camera flyer are really the limiting factor for the first few hundred camera jumps, so spend the least amount of money on the gear. By the time your skills are exceeding your gear, you'll know way more about what you want/need, and yes, there may be new technology that we haven't thought of yet.

[dragon2 0]

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I have a CX7 - will that work instead of a CX100?

It has OIS, so no, not really. If you want to do any backflying, sitflying or wingsuiting forget about it. For bellyfly , mayyybe. But not ideal.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Skwrl 56]

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It has OIS, so no, not really. If you want to do any backflying, sitflying or wingsuiting forget about it. For bellyfly , mayyybe. But not ideal.

Interesting, but I think I disagree. I used a CX7 for a long time wingsuiting and had no issues with it as long as it was top mounted.

I also shot tandems with it (again, fine so long as it was top mounted).

I've since upgraded to a CX100 (and most recently to a CX550), but I think the dislike of OIS is a bit overstated by some in this forum.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[DocPop 1]

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Your skills as a camera flyer are really the limiting factor for the first few hundred camera jumps....

No doubt!

I think your approach of just using video at first to see if I can even hold a subject in frame is a good one. I guess I'll make a simple setup with my CX7 and jump that to start with to see if it will work and then I'll add on to that.

One other thing - I assume I'll need a wide angle lens. Any ideas what to get, or is that a bit like asking "which canopy should I jump?" on the internet?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Skwrl 56]

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I assume I'll need a wide angle lens. Any ideas what to get, or is that a bit like asking "which canopy should I jump?" on the internet?

Depends on what you're trying to shoot. I use a Century Optics .55x for small wingsuit flocks, and small RW groups (e.g., 3 to 10 ways). For larger flocks or for shooting tandems up close, I use something wider, the Opteka .3x ("baby death"). Personally, I find the .55x more versatile, but your results may vary.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[davelepka 4]

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I think your approach of just using video at first to see if I can even hold a subject in frame is a good one

That's really the best way to get it done. If you set it up right, a video/stills set up will have matching lenses, so both cameras will 'see' the same thing. First learn how to get the shot with the video camera, and once you can do that without too much thought, add in the job of triggering the still camera.

Of course, you have the added benefit of not having to worry about setting, checking, carrying or protecting the still camera. More distractions, more weight, more hassle in general for not much advantage. You'll get better stills sooner using a progressive approach, adding complexity to your jumps one step at a time.

The lens thing is another area where it depends on what you want to to do. The 'old standard' used to be a .5x wide angle, and that's not a bad place to start. If you do any freeflying or inside video, you might want to look for a .45x, but I wouldn't go any wider than that.

Try to avoid spending big $$$ on a wide angle lens at first. Once you get a still camera, you may need to switch lenses to get the video and still lenses to match, so your first lens might get put on the shelf. There are a ton of cheapo lenses on Ebay for $30 or $40 that will work fine in the beginning.

All of the ultra wide .4x or wider (which means a smaller number, .3 is wider than .4, and .25 is wider than .3x and so on) are more for hand cam, or specialized video jumps. Avoid those until your skills are further along and you know you can fly the way those lenses need to be flown.

[ntence2 0]

Doc,
I just put an Opteka .3 on my cx 100 and I love it!
So your welcome to try my .45 or .3 lens if you want.

You could always just duck-tape a couple of old cameras you have laying around to your captain America helmet

[DocPop 1]

Perfect.

I have a clear idea of what I need to buy and what I need to do.

Thanks!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DocPop 1]

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Doc,
I just put an Opteka .3 on my cx 100 and I love it!
So your welcome to try my .45 or .3 lens if you want.

You could always just duck-tape a couple of old cameras you have laying around to your captain America helmet

Thanks - I might give your .45 a go and see what results that gives me. I don't think my Captain America helmet will be secure enough to put a camera on!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DSE 3]

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I have a CX7 - will that work instead of a CX100?

It has OIS, so no, not really. If you want to do any backflying, sitflying or wingsuiting forget about it. For bellyfly , mayyybe. But not ideal.

The CX7 works just fine for wingsuiting and bellyflying. I use one still for tandems and sometimes for wingsuiting.
To another question in the thread...
Dave hit it spot-on. If the DZ is cool with GoPro 2 second snap quality, by all means...go that direction (if your self-esteem permits it). It's going to be quite a while before we see a camera that can do quality video and stills in the same unit, although everyone seems to be trying for that nirvana.

[mei 0]

GoPro might not be good enough for tandems but it is a really good way to get some stills without having to think to much about weight or even biting on a switch.

I got some really kick ass photos last summer but as DSE says it really hits your self-esteem. You feel more like a surveillance camera than a photographer. =)

As many have said before, start out small and add one thing at a time. When you have tried something, whatever it is, you get a better idea of what you like and want. First setup is selldom perfect.

Blue ones!

[DocPop 1]

I might think about a GoPro. I have no preconceived ideas or snobbery about photography so the self-esteem thing means nothing to me if the stills turn out to be useable.

Thanks again for your advice.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DocPop 1]

I just spoke to Juan Meyer and he recommended the Drift Stealth. I really like the look of that one. I no think that's the direction I will go.

Shit, this is confusing!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Skwrl 56]

Part of the reason that you're finding it confusing is that you're trying to buy one tool to do a ton of different jobs. That's not going to work well for you.

You originally asked about a lightweight/snag resistant setup; but you also want to shoot tandems with it. The right tool for a "fuck around in the sky and get black-box recorder style footage of my messed up horny gorilla or four way RW zoo jump" is a very different tool than the "I want to film tandems and get paid to be skydiving video dude, filming whuffos and impressing them with my mad video skillz".

I think what you should be focusing on is learning how to jump with a camera on. Preferably a small, lightweight one. But that doesn't have to be the camera you shoot tandems with later on.

Since you're just learning camera, any of the low end small format cameras will be just about as good as any others in terms of quality (in other words, they all suck more or less the same). So then the question is form factor. I've jumped with Juan and I respect his opinion a lot. The Drift Stealth is a small camera and it's probably less likely (never say never) to prove a snag hazard than the GoPro (just look at the form factor and the silly arm/bracket that you have to use with the GoPro). Yes, there are safer ways to mount a GoPro and dumber ways to mount a Drift Stealth, but on average I think you'll be safer with that or with a ContourHD, for what that's worth. (The ContourHD has a similar form factor.) Mount your small format camera on top of your helmet and it's probably safer.

When you get the hang of that - and getting good video will take longer than you think - then you can think about what you want to use for tandem. Then you can worry about OIS, EIS, whether the CX250 is worth it over the CX100, all that crap. But you will have already got the basics down.

Whatever you mount, in addition to being smart about its location, be smart about having to get rid of it if things go bad. I have told the story of my camera helmet entanglement too many times on this forum to repeat, but in short, sometimes stuff doesn't break off when it should. And when it doesn't break off, there can be disastrous results. Make sure you are using a helmet with a cutaway, and think about how you are going to use a helmet cutaway as part of your EPs. In other words, part of your dealing with an emergency now has to be answering the question "is shit stuck to my helmet and I can't get it off?" If so, you'll need to cutaway your helmet before cutting away your main, to avoid breaking your neck. I used up one of my nine lives when I didn't do that and my guardian angel apparently broke the ratchet chin strap as I dangled from it. Don't rely on a similar thing happening to you.

Be smart and be safe.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[DocPop 1]

Thanks for your answer, your points on EPs are well taken as is your advice on starting with something small and working on flying well enough to capture the image before adding a stills camera or going near tandems.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA