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Learning to film tandem video

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My goal for next year is to learn to do tandem video and I wanted to run my plan by you guys to see if you have any other advice. The progression I have in mind is:

1. Exit with tandems with no video until I am competent with that. Particularly keeping out of the way of the drogue on exit and perhaps starting to use wings for light tandem pairs.

2. Fit a video and repeat above until I can keep the subject in frame for the whole skydive.

3. Add a stills camera and starting selling the results when the DZO says they are up to scratch.

I fully expect to take the whole season to get from 1 to 3.

Any other tips?
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Prior to step 1 make sure you meet the tandem manufacturers requires to jump with a tandem. UPT for example requires 500 jumps and a TI or AFF rating. To do video they further require that you have shot video on at least 100 RW jumps.
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Prior to step 1 make sure you meet the tandem manufacturers requires to jump with a tandem. UPT for example requires 500 jumps and a TI or AFF rating. To do video they further require that you have shot video on at least 100 RW jumps.



Ok - that's news to me. My DZ uses Strong DHT systems. Anyone know the requirements?
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Best bet is to speak to your dzo and see what they want you to do. I started with the same sort of plan and within 9 months of starting to work there as a full time driver I had a full time camera slot. Also when you start getting decent videos show them to your dzo and ask him want he wants you to do differently.

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I got a better progression, since videoing tandems is NOT the way to learn to fly video:

1. make damn sure you can fly on your belly well, be anywhere you want to be, etc. Please forget freeflying.
2. get a suit with wings + camera helmet and video all the FS 2-ways, FS4 teams you can, for at least 100-200 jumps, until you can confidently film a couple good FS4 videos in a row (ie keep heading, film fairly close, at a good angle, from exit till separation) without screwing anything up. somewhere along, when you're good enough (or a team really needs video) you can expect to get your jumps paid for :)3. after at least 50 video jumps, add a still camera. make sure you get all the shots at all the right moments.
4. provided you can do all of the above and now meet the standards set by your DZ and the tandem manufacturer, and have the approval of said DZ, start jumping with tandems without video (but with wings, always)
5. add video, try and film the whole package not just the freefall bit. also practice editing. Depending on the DZ, you may need to deliver the edited video + stils within 15 minutes or you may have a week to send them off or you may just hand them to an editor. If you have to edit video, practice this A LOT.
Do NOT try and sell your video to the passenger unless you're really really sure the DZ is ok with this.
6. add stills, same as 5.
7. if you're videos + stills (+ editing) are now consistently good enough, see if the DZ will now pay you to do video.

Basically, IMO the first time you jump with a tandem, you should be able to safely produce a decent video from jump number 1. Tandems are not safe to try out your skills on, you need to be able to fly, do the video + stills beforehand. Practice all that on bellyflyers first, make your mistakes (both technical and in the air) on THEM before you start jumping with whuffo's.

So go look for a FS4 team to film next season, or make yourself available to "on the spot" FS pairs and groups, you'll learn tons and have plenty fun in the bargain ;)


ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I got a better progression, since videoing tandems is NOT the way to learn to fly video:


2. get a suit with wings + camera helmet and video all the FS 2-ways, FS4 teams you can, for at least 100-200 jumps, until you can confidently film a couple good FS4 videos in a row (ie keep heading, film fairly close, at a good angle, from exit till separation) without screwing anything up. somewhere along, when you're good enough (or a team really needs video) you can expect to get your jumps paid for :)



yeah I'm sure the team won't mind you landing on their backs or necks while they train :P

I agree start by shooting FS, but a lot of teams are reluctant to take a "learning" camera guy on. All it takes is 1 burble and the team loses a member due to injury.

shoot the locals doing FS and get good at that first. Start with the 2-ways and work your way up. But understand you shoot FS long enough and you will hit them on exit and will get sucked into the burble, it happens to the best.

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My goal for next year is to learn to do tandem video and I wanted to run my plan by you guys to see if you have any other advice. The progression I have in mind is:

1. Exit with tandems with no video until I am competent with that. Particularly keeping out of the way of the drogue on exit and perhaps starting to use wings for light tandem pairs.

2. Fit a video and repeat above until I can keep the subject in frame for the whole skydive.

3. Add a stills camera and starting selling the results when the DZO says they are up to scratch.

I fully expect to take the whole season to get from 1 to 3.

Any other tips?



make sure to learn how to run the camera on the ground first before you strap it to your head
Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

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Wow 20 years 200 jumps now flying a Katana at 1.5 to one and now wanting to fly camera. I would suggest slowing down a bit



200 jumps is the accepted minimum for using a camera, and my progression starts off without me using a camera at all.

What is your problem with that?
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Better yet, learn to skydive 1st? :)



What makes you think that I haven't learned to skydive?

Obviously internet tough guys who sucked at skydiving at first or STILL suck for that matter. Find someone experienced at your dz who knows your skills and trusts your flying ability and ask them to lurk some tandems. /if your comfortable go from there, they are gonna see first hand what you need to work on and what you can do to make it better not bash you!

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I got a better progression, since videoing tandems is NOT the way to learn to fly video: ...



+1.

I totally agree. Planning to fly video for students before you've ever flown video at all is just silly (it's like learning to drive for the first time on an 18-wheeler, or a Indy car, or an ambulance, or... well,... you get the picture). I'm sure it is tempting to see paid slots and pay on top of it, but this is not the environment to learn in. Learn to fly first (believe everyone with way more jumps than you, there is still a lot to learn at 200 jumps). Then learn camera, s l o w l y. Then start a progression to get you and an instructor and a student in the danger zone together.

I totally agree with learning on smaller RW dives, and progressing from there. A tandem pair is not the place to start, and any DZ or Instructor that lets you start there is just irresponsible.

And as far as the teams not wanting a new camera flier, that isn't my experience. Sure, a good team won't let you "try it out" at a competition, but just be honest with your experience and everyone's expectations. And ask for permission to hit them. Once you have it, you can start flying closer and steeper, and feeling the burble. Sure you might hit them someday, but it usually isn't a big deal (remember, get big if your gonna hit them, don't ball up). If you don't have permission, then fly far enough away to ensure that. But they can't complain about you being far away if they haven't given you permission...

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I got a better progression, since videoing tandems is NOT the way to learn to fly video: ...



+1.

I totally agree. Planning to fly video for students before you've ever flown video at all is just silly (it's like learning to drive for the first time on an 18-wheeler, or a Indy car, or an ambulance, or... well,... you get the picture). I'm sure it is tempting to see paid slots and pay on top of it, but this is not the environment to learn in. Learn to fly first (believe everyone with way more jumps than you, there is still a lot to learn at 200 jumps). Then learn camera, s l o w l y. Then start a progression to get you and an instructor and a student in the danger zone together.

I totally agree with learning on smaller RW dives, and progressing from there. A tandem pair is not the place to start, and any DZ or Instructor that lets you start there is just irresponsible.

And as far as the teams not wanting a new camera flier, that isn't my experience. Sure, a good team won't let you "try it out" at a competition, but just be honest with your experience and everyone's expectations. And ask for permission to hit them. Once you have it, you can start flying closer and steeper, and feeling the burble. Sure you might hit them someday, but it usually isn't a big deal (remember, get big if your gonna hit them, don't ball up). If you don't have permission, then fly far enough away to ensure that. But they can't complain about you being far away if they haven't given you permission...


Just make sure said 4 way team's Tail has a nice ass - that way you can at least get cheap thrills when you leave slightly late and ride her down the hill.....B|

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Adding a camera adds a new set of emergency procedures that encompass it and in your case add to the fact you are flying a very aggressive canopy at a very early stage in your skydiving career.



Interesting point (and I accept completely your comment about my canopy). The only thing I had considered about canopy choice for camera work is that I want one with a soft opening - and in that respect the Katana is perfect.

I kind of understand your point about adding complicating factors at low jump numbers, but was wondering about specific examples of how this could go to shit. Are you thinking of a situation where an aggressive elliptical spins up and perhaps the risers snag on the camera helmet meaning that a cutaway would now involve chopping the helmet first and then the main?
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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There are many different possiblities, lets start with a very common one. You are filming a tandem and the tandem pulls a little lower than SOP for video or just at the right altitude but on a very long spot putting you even lower on deployment. Which could mean landing out, just making it back, having to land downwind or do some brake turns at low altitudes. Other deployment issues may be snag hazzard with helmet, new set of proceedures to deal with camera/camera suit which eats time after deployment, being preoccupied with camera/videoing your own landing and make a mistake. This is just a few things and all gets more complex at higher wingloadings because you will eat up more altitude quicker.
Kirk
He's dead Jim

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Thanks for your reply. I am confident with the purely canopy aspects of long spots/downwinders/flat-turns etc, but you certainly opened my eyes about all the other stuff that goes on.

I am now totally sure that I need to do some more flying with tandems with no camera equipment before even thinking about trying to capture video. I am also going to need some in-person training from current video guys before I take it any further.

Thanks for taking the time to lay things out for me.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Wow 20 years 200 jumps now flying a Katana at 1.5 to one and now wanting to fly camera. I would suggest slowing down a bit



200 jumps is the accepted minimum for using a camera, and my progression starts off without me using a camera at all.

What is your problem with that?



Accepted minimum for jumping with tandems is 500 jumps.

The complications that you're adding by jumping with a tandem, w/o a camera on your head are going to be further complicated by the fact that you are "practicing" for camera. It's not _that_ much different than actually having the camera. I also suspect that you are going to get bored of it really quick and just strap the camera on.

If you're gonna use wings, step 1, do some solos with the wings, relearn how to move around, up/down, turns, forward/back, slides, fast and slow. After that, I'm sure there are people at your DZ doing RW jumps. Go film them. Get comfortable filming those jumps, learn about what it means to shoot video and why it's complicated. Learn how to hold your head still, how to get the right shot and understand what exactly you're doing.

Then, you can go figure out learning to fly with tandems / shooting tandem video.

The only thing that you should be learning while dealing with a wuffo are things you have to learn that way.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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UPT for example requires 500 jumps and a TI or AFF rating. To do video they further require that you have shot video on at least 100 RW jumps.



Seriously that is fucked up.

That is litigation getting in the way of common sense.

500 jumps is too little to get a tandem rating, an 500 is too much of a prerequisite for filming tandems.

How many here can honestly say that every person they have seen (including themselves) filming tandems at their DZ waited until 500 jumps.

I would bet that more than 90% started at artound 200-300 jumps.

The manufacturers have been sued before, and they are covering their ass.

The rules in NZ are 200 jumps as a 'guideline' same in Aussie (regardless of the manufacturers).

It seems what people are willing to do in real life and what they are willing to say on the internet are 2 different things.

You are a MOD Phree... so you have to be the online good guy, but in all honesty, how many jumps did you have when you jumped with a tandem for the first time?
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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There are many different possiblities, lets start with a very common one. You are filming a tandem and the tandem pulls a little lower than SOP for video or just at the right altitude but on a very long spot putting you even lower on deployment.



So... If you have an asshole TM you are in trouble...

give me a break.

To the OP,

Always check the spot on exit, when I learned it was the job of the camera person to determine whether or not we climbed out, and I started doing this at 200 jumps. Practice orbiting the tandem, it is best to do this after you have made it in and got the face shot and are still high enough to make some decisions.

When you are behind the tandem pair, pop up a bit so you are looking down on them and you can also check the spot there too.

Try to make this a nice orbit on a diagonal axis, if you are good you can stop in front and slightly below that pair.

Don't be afraid to pull a little higher and miss the opening. If the TM is such an asshole that they do not check the spot, allow for it, or hose you on purpose... Make sure you are one step ahead of them.

Film the spot, your alti, and track off and dump at an appropriate altitude and take your footage to the S& TA.

Just because you are filming and have to keep things in frame, does not mean you have to be oblivious to everything going on around you. Use a dytter and program it slightly higher than the (tandem) opening altitude so you can have a heads up for when the tandem should open.

You will discover how many do not open at the correct altitude, this is not your problem, you are not obliged to film the opening if the TM hoses you.

I can sympathise with you, some come from big turbine DZ's with many things going on, and some come from smaller DZ's with only tandems and a few fun jumpers.

I have to agree that you should have reasonable competence getting footage before you start filming tandems.
We were using cameras at 100 jumps and did most of our jumps from there with a camera.

At least make sure you can keep a subject (your buddy) in frame the whole time on 10 consecutive jumps. This may take 10 jumps or it may take 100, each persons aptitude is different.

Them manufacturers allow for the idiots, I don't want to assume you are an idiot.

Your S&TA has the final say at the end of the day. And If they are happy for you to jump a Katana, then you most likely have good aptitude.

Be safe and have fun...

:)
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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My DZ requires 500 jumps and 100 prior camera jumps. It sounds like the right numbers to me. USPA says 300 jumps. I see no reason to lower the standards that the rig manufacturer calls out.



That is not the answer to the question...
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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