SilverFox 0 #1 July 14, 2003 I'm a firefighter in Australia. Just had first jump on AFF table. Wife is happier if I buy new gear. I'm 50, 6'3" 205lbs. Need lots of advice. Thinking of a Vector 3 with either Silhouette 210, Sabre2-210 or Icarus Safire 209 main. I'm not sure about reserve. Maybe PD 193R? I don't mind speed in the air, but I would like nice soft,safe landings. Although I'm reasonably fit for my age, I am still 50. Can anyone give me an opinion on my choices? Blue Skies to ALL SilverFox SilverFox As we get older we get wiser, but we still fall the same Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #2 July 14, 2003 Don't order anything until you're off student status and have had a chance to jump canopies other than student ones. 205 pounds body weight is at least 225 out the door. Knowing nothing more about you than your weight and experience (assuming you'll have 15 jumps or so when you buy) I'd suggest no smaller than 230 sq ft for both main and reserve. Small enough to have fun with in the air, big enough for soft, "safe" landings - canopies that are fast in the air are also fast on landing. Talk to your instructors about gear. They'll see you land, they should be able to give you far better advice than anyone posting here can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #3 July 14, 2003 Same advice. At 205 you will be 225+ out the door. As a student you DONT wanna load your canopy. At least a 230 or larger to start with. 210 is too small for you. I weigh 210 lbs I'm buying a Sabre2 230 myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sburkart 0 #4 July 14, 2003 Huh. I weigh 164, so plus 25 is 189; therefore if I wanted to stay within the proposed 1/1 guidlines I'd need a 190? Shoot, if I got a 170 I'd be at 1.117647059 to 1 AINT THAT CLOSE ENOUGH?! No, really. How tight are we gonna call this stuff?Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #5 July 14, 2003 QuoteNo, really. How tight are we gonna call this stuff? Not sure what your point is. He asked for advice and recommendations, I gave him mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b1jercat 0 #6 July 15, 2003 HI dude, not really advice, but heres how it worked for me. At one point in my aff my instructors allowed me to start jumping rental gear, once on the rental gear I boggied to different DZ to try different canopys. 7 cells , nine cells what ever. I've jumped 220&190 triathlon, 190 sihoulette, 190 flight concepts pro, 190 saber2. I ended up with the saber 2 190, 193r, we are the same age and weight. Soft landings ? not always, my point is you need to find your own comfort level and take your advice from the people that trained you. blue skies jerry asshat comment here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aneblett 0 #7 July 15, 2003 not to hijack the thread or anything but my curiosity is getting the better of me.... what is your point? AgeS.E.X. party #2 ..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpinDoctor 0 #8 July 15, 2003 LOADING I am 5'10' and 175lb plus kit - so let's say 195 out the door. My first bit of kit was a PD170 in a TearDrop which i started jumping on #39. That made my wing loading 1.14 ( a touch too much?) After 200 jumps i got a ZP155, making my loading 1.25 and some of those first landings were fast. I now have 400 jumps and if i were to downsize to a 135 (which i am not planning for at least another 100 jumps) then i would be loading at 1.44 I recently jumped a 135 and landed it no problem... but that was on a good spot, light winds etc. I can't remember where i saw it - but it made a lot of sense to me... Wing loadding ratio: < 100 jumps = 1.0 100 jumps = 1.1 200 jumps = 1.2 300 jumps = 1.3 400 jumps = 1.4 etc This is not a recommendation to downsize every 100 jumps - but it gives a bit of a clue to the sort of wing loading you could expect as an 'intermediate' or 'experienced' skydiver. It's not a race to get to the smallest hankie... KIT Personally - i would (and did) buy second hand... There is some good kit out there and you save the tax. Kit is generally good for loads of jumps. 600-800 jumps per line set and in excess of 1000-1200 jumps per canopy. (These are very loose numbers and are based on information on DZs and here, so please don't flame) Be Safe----------------------- Connextion: British 8 Way Team www.bodyflight.co.uk ----------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZoneRat 0 #9 July 15, 2003 I wouldn't buy anything until after you've completed student training... but it's good that you're already doing the research. I don't know anything about Silhouette, but the Sabre 2 and Safire 2 are both excellent canopies. Nothing wrong with a Vector III. That's what I jump and I love it. IMHO new gear isn't going to be safer than most well kept used gear and it will cost considerably less. A few caveats: 1. There are many older rigs that are not great choices for freeflying... I'd get one that is whether you intend on doing any freefly or not. It's safer and will be easier to sell later, when you want to downsize. 2. Buy the smallest rig that will still fit your main, reserve & AAD. That way you can probably keep your container when you downsize your main. 2. Lines on canopies change lengths with use which reduces the flight efficiency of the canopy. If you buy a used canopy have a rigger check it out for you. 3. Seriously consider an AAD. I chose a Cypress myself. It'll make the wife happier. Whatever gear you buy, you'll probably want to sell it in 6 months anyway. It may be more difficult to sell gear sized for a 6.3" 205 lb. guy than gear sized for more common body types. So the more you invest on this initial purchase, the more risk you take having to hold onto the gear waiting for the right buyer to come along. Used gear would entail less investment, hence less financial risk. Maybe you can explain to the wife that used gear has "proven itself in the air". That jumping new gear that no one else has ever jumped gives you the willies. If you can pull THAT off, it'll save ya several grand...... and that, my friend, is a lot of jumps. In any case, don't buy anything without talking to your instructors first. Oh, and get your wife jumping too. It'd be a really cool journey to experience together. Plus she'll be more likely to understand why you want to spend every weekend at the DZ...“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Blahr 0 #10 July 15, 2003 Quote Whatever gear you buy, you'll probably want to sell it in 6 months anyway. Why would you think this? Not everyone out there is driven to downsize every 15 jumps I'm investing in some new gear which I fully expect to be using for many years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZoneRat 0 #11 July 15, 2003 Well. You're right. Not everyone will want to downsize in 6 months. It may be a year, two years or never. I didn't mean to advocate rapid downsizing, but reading through my post, it looks like I sorta did. My apologies. That was irresponsible of me. Silverfox, there's quite a bit of info on this site about the potential dangers of downsizing. When to do it (what skills you have with your current canopy)and when one should wait. Might do a search and take a glance. Then please be sure to discuss it with your instructors before you come to any concrete conclusions. They will have seen you under canopy and are best able to provide good advice. Nice catch, Blahr.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #12 July 15, 2003 QuoteCan anyone give me an opinion on my choices? Harley Davidson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sburkart 0 #13 July 15, 2003 QuoteNot sure what your point is. He asked for advice and recommendations, I gave him mine. Whoops, definitely posted to the wrong thread. My bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SilverFox 0 #14 July 17, 2003 QuoteThanx for the tips. There's a lot to learn. Will be buying a Cypres. Not allowed to jump in Australia without one under a "D" Licence. Wife will be pleased to read your comments. The new/used decision is becoming more difficult. I've narrowed the gear choice to Vector 3, Sabre2 or Sihouette and PD Reserve. Modern used gear is hard to get in Australia for my size. You guys in US have lots of choices. "The older you get the wiser you get, but you still fall the same" Silver Fox Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SilverFox 0 #15 July 17, 2003 Thanx for the advice. Instructor says maybe 210 would suit me. Could easily lose 10lbs if it was a bit too fast. No real chance to jump canopies other than student 290s. Thinking of Sabre2, Sihouette or Spectre. Have you tried those? Also reserve size - does it need to be the same? Maybe a stupid question, but I am new to this sport. Instructor said I had good canopy control. Regards SilverFox ("You may get older and wiser, but you still fall the same") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #16 July 18, 2003 I'm about 6'4" myself, more like 218 lbs and 47 yrs old. Also looking for a first rig and jumping demo rentals 'til then. Have been reading up on lots of stuff too. Some of the safety threads and articles here suggest that main & reserve should be close to each other in size. I don't really see why you'd need a reserve larger than a PD235, but you can Ravens at 249 ft that will fit in the same container. I'm thinking I'll probably go for a brand new reserve, but would consider a rigger inspected reserve no more than 5 yrs old if it had no more than one deployment (heck, the thing would've worked once, that's nice to know). I'd be willing to buy a used rig with no velcro if it was a good fit. On the other hand with a new rig, you can have it built to YOUR measurements. Bill Booth designs his Vectors & Microns so that you can safely go one size down on your main canopy, so you have some room for downsizing. I've been using a Spectre 230 and love it. It blows the doors off anything we had twenty years ago, is simple to pack and has great openings. Nice landings too. I'm in no hurry for a pocket rocket, I want soft openings, a fun ride back, and a soft landing, so I can pack up and do it again. I will probably try a 210 size Spectre and Sabre2 before putting my money down - but there is no disgrace in a 200+ canopy that gives you a good ride & landing. And please do get the Cypres. I promised the wife I'd never jump without one. I don't rely on it, but it's nice knowing it's there. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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skybytch 259 #5 July 14, 2003 QuoteNo, really. How tight are we gonna call this stuff? Not sure what your point is. He asked for advice and recommendations, I gave him mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #6 July 15, 2003 HI dude, not really advice, but heres how it worked for me. At one point in my aff my instructors allowed me to start jumping rental gear, once on the rental gear I boggied to different DZ to try different canopys. 7 cells , nine cells what ever. I've jumped 220&190 triathlon, 190 sihoulette, 190 flight concepts pro, 190 saber2. I ended up with the saber 2 190, 193r, we are the same age and weight. Soft landings ? not always, my point is you need to find your own comfort level and take your advice from the people that trained you. blue skies jerry asshat comment here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aneblett 0 #7 July 15, 2003 not to hijack the thread or anything but my curiosity is getting the better of me.... what is your point? AgeS.E.X. party #2 ..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpinDoctor 0 #8 July 15, 2003 LOADING I am 5'10' and 175lb plus kit - so let's say 195 out the door. My first bit of kit was a PD170 in a TearDrop which i started jumping on #39. That made my wing loading 1.14 ( a touch too much?) After 200 jumps i got a ZP155, making my loading 1.25 and some of those first landings were fast. I now have 400 jumps and if i were to downsize to a 135 (which i am not planning for at least another 100 jumps) then i would be loading at 1.44 I recently jumped a 135 and landed it no problem... but that was on a good spot, light winds etc. I can't remember where i saw it - but it made a lot of sense to me... Wing loadding ratio: < 100 jumps = 1.0 100 jumps = 1.1 200 jumps = 1.2 300 jumps = 1.3 400 jumps = 1.4 etc This is not a recommendation to downsize every 100 jumps - but it gives a bit of a clue to the sort of wing loading you could expect as an 'intermediate' or 'experienced' skydiver. It's not a race to get to the smallest hankie... KIT Personally - i would (and did) buy second hand... There is some good kit out there and you save the tax. Kit is generally good for loads of jumps. 600-800 jumps per line set and in excess of 1000-1200 jumps per canopy. (These are very loose numbers and are based on information on DZs and here, so please don't flame) Be Safe----------------------- Connextion: British 8 Way Team www.bodyflight.co.uk ----------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #9 July 15, 2003 I wouldn't buy anything until after you've completed student training... but it's good that you're already doing the research. I don't know anything about Silhouette, but the Sabre 2 and Safire 2 are both excellent canopies. Nothing wrong with a Vector III. That's what I jump and I love it. IMHO new gear isn't going to be safer than most well kept used gear and it will cost considerably less. A few caveats: 1. There are many older rigs that are not great choices for freeflying... I'd get one that is whether you intend on doing any freefly or not. It's safer and will be easier to sell later, when you want to downsize. 2. Buy the smallest rig that will still fit your main, reserve & AAD. That way you can probably keep your container when you downsize your main. 2. Lines on canopies change lengths with use which reduces the flight efficiency of the canopy. If you buy a used canopy have a rigger check it out for you. 3. Seriously consider an AAD. I chose a Cypress myself. It'll make the wife happier. Whatever gear you buy, you'll probably want to sell it in 6 months anyway. It may be more difficult to sell gear sized for a 6.3" 205 lb. guy than gear sized for more common body types. So the more you invest on this initial purchase, the more risk you take having to hold onto the gear waiting for the right buyer to come along. Used gear would entail less investment, hence less financial risk. Maybe you can explain to the wife that used gear has "proven itself in the air". That jumping new gear that no one else has ever jumped gives you the willies. If you can pull THAT off, it'll save ya several grand...... and that, my friend, is a lot of jumps. In any case, don't buy anything without talking to your instructors first. Oh, and get your wife jumping too. It'd be a really cool journey to experience together. Plus she'll be more likely to understand why you want to spend every weekend at the DZ...“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #10 July 15, 2003 Quote Whatever gear you buy, you'll probably want to sell it in 6 months anyway. Why would you think this? Not everyone out there is driven to downsize every 15 jumps I'm investing in some new gear which I fully expect to be using for many years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #11 July 15, 2003 Well. You're right. Not everyone will want to downsize in 6 months. It may be a year, two years or never. I didn't mean to advocate rapid downsizing, but reading through my post, it looks like I sorta did. My apologies. That was irresponsible of me. Silverfox, there's quite a bit of info on this site about the potential dangers of downsizing. When to do it (what skills you have with your current canopy)and when one should wait. Might do a search and take a glance. Then please be sure to discuss it with your instructors before you come to any concrete conclusions. They will have seen you under canopy and are best able to provide good advice. Nice catch, Blahr.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #12 July 15, 2003 QuoteCan anyone give me an opinion on my choices? Harley Davidson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sburkart 0 #13 July 15, 2003 QuoteNot sure what your point is. He asked for advice and recommendations, I gave him mine. Whoops, definitely posted to the wrong thread. My bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverFox 0 #14 July 17, 2003 QuoteThanx for the tips. There's a lot to learn. Will be buying a Cypres. Not allowed to jump in Australia without one under a "D" Licence. Wife will be pleased to read your comments. The new/used decision is becoming more difficult. I've narrowed the gear choice to Vector 3, Sabre2 or Sihouette and PD Reserve. Modern used gear is hard to get in Australia for my size. You guys in US have lots of choices. "The older you get the wiser you get, but you still fall the same" Silver Fox Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SilverFox 0 #15 July 17, 2003 Thanx for the advice. Instructor says maybe 210 would suit me. Could easily lose 10lbs if it was a bit too fast. No real chance to jump canopies other than student 290s. Thinking of Sabre2, Sihouette or Spectre. Have you tried those? Also reserve size - does it need to be the same? Maybe a stupid question, but I am new to this sport. Instructor said I had good canopy control. Regards SilverFox ("You may get older and wiser, but you still fall the same") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #16 July 18, 2003 I'm about 6'4" myself, more like 218 lbs and 47 yrs old. Also looking for a first rig and jumping demo rentals 'til then. Have been reading up on lots of stuff too. Some of the safety threads and articles here suggest that main & reserve should be close to each other in size. I don't really see why you'd need a reserve larger than a PD235, but you can Ravens at 249 ft that will fit in the same container. I'm thinking I'll probably go for a brand new reserve, but would consider a rigger inspected reserve no more than 5 yrs old if it had no more than one deployment (heck, the thing would've worked once, that's nice to know). I'd be willing to buy a used rig with no velcro if it was a good fit. On the other hand with a new rig, you can have it built to YOUR measurements. Bill Booth designs his Vectors & Microns so that you can safely go one size down on your main canopy, so you have some room for downsizing. I've been using a Spectre 230 and love it. It blows the doors off anything we had twenty years ago, is simple to pack and has great openings. Nice landings too. I'm in no hurry for a pocket rocket, I want soft openings, a fun ride back, and a soft landing, so I can pack up and do it again. I will probably try a 210 size Spectre and Sabre2 before putting my money down - but there is no disgrace in a 200+ canopy that gives you a good ride & landing. And please do get the Cypres. I promised the wife I'd never jump without one. I don't rely on it, but it's nice knowing it's there. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
SilverFox 0 #15 July 17, 2003 Thanx for the advice. Instructor says maybe 210 would suit me. Could easily lose 10lbs if it was a bit too fast. No real chance to jump canopies other than student 290s. Thinking of Sabre2, Sihouette or Spectre. Have you tried those? Also reserve size - does it need to be the same? Maybe a stupid question, but I am new to this sport. Instructor said I had good canopy control. Regards SilverFox ("You may get older and wiser, but you still fall the same") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #16 July 18, 2003 I'm about 6'4" myself, more like 218 lbs and 47 yrs old. Also looking for a first rig and jumping demo rentals 'til then. Have been reading up on lots of stuff too. Some of the safety threads and articles here suggest that main & reserve should be close to each other in size. I don't really see why you'd need a reserve larger than a PD235, but you can Ravens at 249 ft that will fit in the same container. I'm thinking I'll probably go for a brand new reserve, but would consider a rigger inspected reserve no more than 5 yrs old if it had no more than one deployment (heck, the thing would've worked once, that's nice to know). I'd be willing to buy a used rig with no velcro if it was a good fit. On the other hand with a new rig, you can have it built to YOUR measurements. Bill Booth designs his Vectors & Microns so that you can safely go one size down on your main canopy, so you have some room for downsizing. I've been using a Spectre 230 and love it. It blows the doors off anything we had twenty years ago, is simple to pack and has great openings. Nice landings too. I'm in no hurry for a pocket rocket, I want soft openings, a fun ride back, and a soft landing, so I can pack up and do it again. I will probably try a 210 size Spectre and Sabre2 before putting my money down - but there is no disgrace in a 200+ canopy that gives you a good ride & landing. And please do get the Cypres. I promised the wife I'd never jump without one. I don't rely on it, but it's nice knowing it's there. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
