2010 Tandem NLE Desktop Dream Spec

[kai3fly 0]

The Goal / fantasy
Standalone tower, insert card, insert blank media, Hit a big red easy button, Tandem AVCHD-DVD in 5mins or less.

Reality = Headache

Customer can choose SD DVD, AVCHD DVD or a Bluray DVD
Videographers are using Sony CX100/110/150 series.
Current Video at DZ are 5 to 7min long.

Working on a
Budget Spec with Vegas Pro 9, Win7
and a
Wetdream Spec with Vegas Pro 10, Win7

I have attached some pics of a shopping cart list at newegg.com

Some Questions for the Enlightened Computer Geeks, who are gonna rule the world :)

Questions

Boot Disk
Is a SSD 10k rpm not gonna boot as fast as a 10k rpm HDD?
(everyone is ranting about SSD boot time)

RAM
How much time will be saved using 24GB over 12GB?
Whats best for data access flow, 6 x 2GB or 3 x4GB?

GPU
Will any +512mb GPU be ok for Vegas Pro 9?
Using Vega Pro 10 what size GPU are we talking about to significantly reduce time?

RAID????, Some type would hinder, some type is critical, external raid device, or raid on the motherboard or something......Havent a clue, inform me please.

Anybody willing to share their actual working Tandem Desktop Station Specs for Vegas Pro? and turnaround time?

Is the Mac gonna make a come back with CS5 Premiere Native editing of AVCHD?

..............

What I do Know is..
PC's crash alot
Boot disk needs to be 10K rpm
Boot Disk for Apps only and have lots of permanent free space
(as computers slowdown when the boot disk becomes full)
Video Source Drive 1TB (read), and a Video Export Drive 1TB(write)
Need 12GB RAM min, and the Fast stuff.
FAST i7 Processor and motherboard
Clean Install of Win7, maybe a Lite version without the crap.
The GPU is for Display output (unitl Vegas pro 10 and CS5 came along)
Bluray Disc Container is overkill for our short movies.

My view is do it right the first time, and maintain the Highest Quality.

Things are sure getting expensive, including rigs and life.

Thanks for your time guys.
Kai

Please only post if you are contributing, do your flirting elsewhere, click the watch button.

[AHoyThere 0]

I'll be following this thread for the dream machine specs. Want to build something in preparation for this upcoming Spring season.

[wildcard451 0]

Kai, is this gonna be your personal rig, or a editing station for all the videoguys with a dedicated editor?

I don't know how much speed you are gonna gain with the extreme 3.33 proc over the 3.2 - but from readon the newegg reviews while looking to build my own desktop at home, I dont think the extra $450 is worth it.

For the OS disk, the is always solid state drives to consider for ridiculous speeds, but I don;t know how this is really going to affect times, other than load into Vegas. This may be a place to spend that other $450.

Overall, either way you are spec'ing out a top of the line windows gaming machine, which "should" chew through most anything you can throw at it.

As far as a "lite" install, if you are putting on the OEM version of W7, that is not coming from a builder, there should not be much crap installed on it other than the base OS.

One other thing to consider is an external backup drive, which is why I asked if this is just for you or for the DZ as a whole. Then you could save on a large internal backup drive, and spend that to an external system that the DZ could use to archive all footage from a month/season, that is transferred at the end of each working day.

I am anxious to seeing what those that already have this implemented have to say. I think DSE has a good setup, and you could always call down to WP, as I think they have something similar up and running.

[dragon2 0]

Definitely get a SSD for your bootdrive. Saved my bacon a few times with the mega fast reboot times

I have a 50 GB extra fast SSD (Sandforce), you may want to get a 90 GB or bigger though, and make very very sure your NLE app doesn't try to use the SSD as a scratchdisc (Encore does that to me every now and then, filling up the SSD, hence the occasional crash...).

SSD trumps RAID for bootdrive

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[wildcard451 0]

Quote

Definitely get a SSD for your bootdrive. Saved my bacon a few times with the mega fast reboot times

I have a 50 GB extra fast SSD (Sandforce), you may want to get a 90 GB or bigger though, and make very very sure your NLE app doesn't try to use the SSD as a scratchdisc (Encore does that to me every now and then, filling up the SSD, hence the occasional crash...).

SSD trumps RAID for bootdrive

What about a SSD boot/OS disk, a dedicated SSD scratchdisk, and then an internal data drive? Assuming of course, that $$$ isn't an object.

[jimmytavino 16]

dragon2....
I just get all goose-bumpy..
when you talk about video / camera technology and equipment !!!.....hahaha...

i don't understand.. as much of it as i'd like....
but i have always soo impressed, with Your expertise!!! and with your willingness to share...
...skydive safely
jimmytavino

[davelepka 4]

While I have less than zero input to your actual questions, I will throw this out there just for kicks.

Is there a cheaper, or already in place alternative, that might require more hands-on work where you could hire an editor to take care of the work?

I ask because I've been fortunate enough to have an editor handling my footage for the last 8 or 9 years, and it is the way to go if you can swing it. I have never had to deal with any troubles with hardware, software, media, or the physical delivery of the product to the customer. I drop my footage in a box, mark a tape or memory card number on an edit sheet, and I'm done.

What I'm thinking is that even if you set up the 'easy button' station, is it really going to be that easy? What happens when the PC crashes, or there is some other error? What about if your footage has a mistake or other special consideration that isn't pre-programmed into the easy button? Will you have to stand down from the video rotation to solve a problem, or postpone the edits until that night and mail the DVDs to the customer?

We pay our editor $5 a video, and it's well worth it. Having the high-end hardware is nice, but you can't beat the versatility of a real person. We get the edits done, regardless of any special needs, DVDs handed over the customers, and she also ends up helping us out with logistics and communication with manifest to keep us all on the right track.

I make about $40 for a video + stills, so it takes me 8 jumps before I spend the cost of one video on edits. It really is a huge reduction in workload when all you have to do is jump, pack, and keep the cameras running.

Anyway, just a throught. You can check with local high schools and colleges with communication programs to see if they have any students looking for work. It's not a bad job for a student, and if they're interested in video production/editing, it's a good fit for them. Actually, one of our old editors when on to do some work for the Discovery channel and Disney.

[dragon2 0]

Quote

Quote

Definitely get a SSD for your bootdrive. Saved my bacon a few times with the mega fast reboot times

I have a 50 GB extra fast SSD (Sandforce), you may want to get a 90 GB or bigger though, and make very very sure your NLE app doesn't try to use the SSD as a scratchdisc (Encore does that to me every now and then, filling up the SSD, hence the occasional crash...).

SSD trumps RAID for bootdrive

What about a SSD boot/OS disk, a dedicated SSD scratchdisk, and then an internal data drive? Assuming of course, that $$$ isn't an object.

An SSD for a scratchdisc is pricey, also it won't last as long that way - an SSD can only handle so much write operations before it fails, and scratchdics get a lot of writing. I suppose it would be quick though yes, so if money REALLY is no object and you can spend a couple hundred bucks on just one drive that's also gonna fail fairly soon....

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 0]

Quote

dragon2....
I just get all goose-bumpy..
when you talk about video / camera technology and equipment !!!.....hahaha...

i don't understand.. as much of it as i'd like....
but i have always soo impressed, with Your expertise!!! and with your willingness to share...
...skydive safely
jimmytavino

Um, thanks?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DSE 3]

You have some great ideas, valid questions, and a coupla misconceptions.
An SSD is great for boot times, and it'll help operate the OS and application faster but it won't aid in render.
You don't need two drives, one for source and one for final. It'll help, but it won't make lightning differences.
Vegas doesn't use GPU to make a difference unless you're using a CUDA-enabled card such as GForce9 or newer. Be sure you look carefully at this if your goal is faster times.

RAM...more is nice, but if you're only rendering one video at a time, 12 is beyond ample. If you're rendering 3-4 like a busy operation is running, then more is better.

Speed of machine won't impact quality of image at all. It just gives you faster access to image quality.
http://vimeo.com/16002861 password "vasst" might give you some insights on the software. This link will expire once the final product is finished and placed on the Sony site.

[flr169 0]

Nice job Doug

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting - "fcuk me what a ride!"

[velvetjo 0]

You might want to check out this system guide from Videoguys.com. Another one that I found useful is here at ArsTechnica. Both are updated pretty regularly.

Lance

[parachutist 1]

I've built several NLE systems. My input would be:

1) Go for two budget systems instead of one kickass system. Two budget systems is a faster choice than one awesome machine, and it provides redundancy in case of failure. A typical budget system these days:
- 8 gigs budget but reliable memory
- AMD Phenom II X6 cpu
- $99 mobo that has everything onboard
- boot drive
- data drive
- cheap chassis
- quality power supply
- two DVDRs

2) RAID is unnecessary because your bottleneck is going to be at the CPU processing instead of data throughput. Go for cheap drives in the system, store it all to an external drive at end of the day.

3) Boot drive dosen't need to be 10k. I prefer a fast SSD for the boot drive because they're more affordable now, seek time is 0, noise is 0, heat is low, and startup time is quick.

[DSE 3]

if you're in the USA, you might consider having Parachutist/Chris build you a tricked out set of machines with Vegas and PA pre-installed. He has done those for several DZ's out there.

[mircan 0]

What about Intel`s i3 or i5 CPU?
Especially i3 b/c it is on the cheap side?

dudeist skydiver #42

[dragon2 0]

Forget the budget i3 unless you are in noooooo hurry when editing and rendering. i5 is ok though, but make sure it's a quadcore model not a dualcore (i5-750 or i5-750S is good).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[parachutist 1]

Quote

What about Intel`s i3 or i5 CPU?
Especially i3 b/c it is on the cheap side?

Most performance for best price is what I'm looking for. To me that would be the 6-core 3.0 ghz AMD for $239 right now. Lower end CPUs will really bog down the render times. The i3 dual-core 3.33 ghz for $149 would work, but if you have the option to spend $100 more for a CPU that has three times the cores, then I think it's worth the extra 100.

Compare prices for an i5 and you'll be spending about equal for a similar speed quad-core i5 vs x6 Phenom II. The i5 would perform a little better per core, but AMD has two more and I'd rather have all 6 cores firing

[Zlew 0]

For the SSD's the biggest improvement I have seen is how quickly you are ready to be up and running. Windows 7 boots faster (but probably not worth buying the ssd just for a few second boot difference). The impressive thing to me is from the time I click on PhotoshopCS5 or Vegas Movie Studio, to the time it is loaded and ready to go is like 1 second.

From the research I have done so far, the biggest issue for speeding up your render times is processor horsepower.

I am piecing together a system now for this purpose, and should have more info in a few weeks.

[goobersnuftda 0]

I read an article recently from a computer mfg. selling agent for custom built systems. In a nut shell, don't get suckered in the "more processors are better" marketing scheme. Seems that the Intel quad processors are still kicking the butt of the AMD "many more processors but less powerful" theory.

==============================
I was reading an article this morning that said that AMD's new pricing structure on desktop CPUs was putting pressure on Intel to lower prices. Apparently, they are counting on the computer buying public to be gullible enough to believe that six cores is inherently better than four core processors. Even the writer of the article discerns nothing about actual performance, only number of cores vs. price. The fact is, until a CPU is benchmarked, it should make no difference to the client what its internal architecture is. In other words, actual performance matters more than marketing, or at least it should. <-====

As an example, the AMD Phenom II X6 1090T is exactly the same price as the quad core Intel I7-870 but is 14% slower overall(Sysmark)and it uses 26% more power. Why would anybody buy this? I should add, Intel has a whole range of higher processors above I7-870, including hex core units that walk and talk all over any AMD product. Accordingly, they are more expensive. I just consider the I7-870 the best bang for the buck for most consumers.
==============================


Empower yourself and see Anandtech for a great CPU comparator.

[goobersnuftda 0]

I found this here

High End CPU Chart as of Nov 2nd

Nothing like pictures to tell the story. Sorry AMD, check out how far down the list they are.

[parachutist 1]

Quote

I found this here

High End CPU Chart as of Nov 2nd

Nothing like pictures to tell the story. Sorry AMD, check out how far down the list they are.

Are you ignoring the price tags for processors near the top of that list? Look at the corresponding prices and you might notice AMD Phernom II X6 1090T for $235 with no similarly low prices above its position.

[DSE 3]

Article schmarticle.
Having worked with all levels of machines at virtually every price point in the past few months...AMD's are just simply great.
Having the latest/greatest is silly for all but the most monster tandem operation doing 100+ vids a day, IMO.

Cheapest on the list ain't the best either, obviously. Choosing a median AMD or Intel quad, sexta, or octa-core CPU is gonna make about anyone happy for an average or above average workflow.
Anyone here need to render more than 4 vids at once while ingesting and editing?

[AHoyThere 0]

Quote

I found this here

High End CPU Chart as of Nov 2nd

Nothing like pictures to tell the story. Sorry AMD, check out how far down the list they are.

I thought that chart was interesting. A google add on that page led me here...

http://www.cpusolutions.com/store/pc/home.asp

And while I was there, I spec'd out a computer. (See the attachment).
I left off the OS, monitors, keyboard, mouse, speakers.
But, I tried to add in the things that we would need for a powerful video editing machine.
Fast CPU, Fast Video Card, 12GB ram, BD burner, DVD burner, card reader.

What do you all think of this computer? Does it look like it would work for a video editing work station?

[Icon134 0]

For NLE you'll want another hard drive... and the system doesn't include a specification.

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[AHoyThere 0]

Quote

For NLE you'll want another hard drive... and the system doesn't include a specification.

Scott

By 'another' hard drive, do you mean a second drive in addition to this one? Or a different drive instead of this one.

What kind of specification is it missing?