Packing problems

[tmontana 0]

i'm still a student and almost have my a license Ok so i just had two packing classes, and felt like a fucking moron. I had got so frustrated at one point i almost left the class. I know that they say the only way to learn to pack is to practice, but i just wasn't getting it, this is really bothering me since i know i have to pack my own in order to get licensed and i just felt like an idiot when i was practicing. i would get the nose flaked and between my legs w/o a problem and then i'd look at the rest of the canopy and it all looked like a bunch of fabric with lines attached to it, IT JUST ISN"T MAKING SENSE TO ME
I guess my question is how hard was it for you to learn to pack, any suggestions on books or videos (or even better) web sites that may help.

___________________________________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

[Fast 0]

I think it just comes down to taking a slow look at the canopy and learning the differnt linesets and how they fall into place.

You just have to become good at determining the a,b,c,d and stearing lines, and all the lines that are attached to stabalizers.

Find some of the pictures that are out on the net, and just go over it a few more times. Learning to pack can take some patients (I should know, I just learned )

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[pilotdave 0]

I know how you feel. It gets easier. Give the canopy a good shake after checking the lines. It helps it to fall into place on its own, which makes identifying the groups of lines easier.

Not that I suggest doing it this way, nor do I do this, but one person showed me a time saver for packing. After stuffing the nose between your legs, grab the tail and wrap it, skipping all that complicated stuff in between. I jumped it like that and had one of the softest openings I ever had on my PD150. My point is just that the canopy will open just about every time even if it's not packed perfectly. Keep practicing and it'll start to make more and more sense. All you're trying to do is, for each side of teh canopy, get lines of equal length together, and neatly fold the fabric between each group. Once you're able to keep the left apart from the right, and identify which lines go together, its easy.

Dave

[drenaline 0]

don't worry montana, its like everybody said, practice practice practice.

Like the previews post, its all about knowing your lines, flake them, sort them, bring the tail up give it some rolls and be ready for the good stuff doing the S and puting it inside the container. Best thing you can do is to get a F111 canopy for learning.

How hard? I hate it the part of the S fold and puting that huge piece of nylon inside a lil bag, took me a lot of time and help.

If you want a video you can get "pack like a pro" its a good one.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[ffwayne 0]

I'll give you the same advice everybody else gave you. Practice practice practice. Talk to the packers, riggers and anyone else that knows.

Pack like a pro is a good video and Sidsrigging offers a good CD-ROM that helped me.

[Fast 0]

Quote

I know how you feel. It gets easier. Give the canopy a good shake after checking the lines. It helps it to fall into place on its own, which makes identifying the groups of lines easier.

Not that I suggest doing it this way, nor do I do this, but one person showed me a time saver for packing. After stuffing the nose between your legs, grab the tail and wrap it, skipping all that complicated stuff in between. I jumped it like that and had one of the softest openings I ever had on my PD150. My point is just that the canopy will open just about every time even if it's not packed perfectly. Keep practicing and it'll start to make more and more sense. All you're trying to do is, for each side of teh canopy, get lines of equal length together, and neatly fold the fabric between each group. Once you're able to keep the left apart from the right, and identify which lines go together, its easy.

Dave

I ahve been told by some pretty experienced people that, as long as there are no walkthroughs, major line twists, brakes stowed, and risers secure, it will open... It wants to open, and really... its trying to open even when your closing it. But I'll keep on propacking it.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Nullified 0]

I remember thinking that I'd never be able to see anything more than fabric and lines, just as you described.
What I found was screwing me up was trying to identify everything that was hanging in front of me.
Try this and see if it helps;
Have someone help you pack, preferably with a canopy that has it's colors symmetrical, and make sure that they DON'T point everything out to you..."These are the blah blah lines and they should be here, and these are the blah blah lines...et cetera." Just pay attention to what it looks likes right before it's time to grab your death tag.
If you know what it's supposed to look like, you'll be able to pick up a just jumped canopy and SEE what has to be done to make it look like what you saw.
Learning to identify all of the lines is important, but I found it musc easier to learn packing when I wasn't concerned with what was what, and was just concerned with making it look correct. Once you've got that down, being able to identify the lines just kinda' happens as a byproduct.
At least that was my experience.

As for the S fold, I never really had an easy time with that so I bought a Lightning!

Stay safe.

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[wmw999 2,120]

If you want to see the pieces and line groups really clearly, try side-packing it, or at least laying it out.

You don't have to finish the pack job, but you'll get a much better feel for it by laying it out like that. Really. Then it won't matter if it looks like a bunch of lines and spaghetti.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SLOfreefall 0]

One thing I did was once the nose was flaked and between my legs, I kinda stopped and just looked at what I had. Visualized where each line group is, and what exactly I was looking at. Once I had the idea of what was in front of me, the rest just made sense. It's not rocket science, but it seemed overwhelming before I understood what it was I was doing, and what I was trying to do.
Practice, practice...

[dterrick 0]

Heya Bill

sounds like they;re teaching you PRO pack and not flat pack. Is this so?

You might ask for a flat pack class as it is the typical 'student rig' packjob.

As for PRO, think of it this way....

Flying through the air, the canopy has a nose-down orientation (that is, the front is lower than the rear).

There are FOUR sets of lines, A,B,C,D, frm front to back respectively.

Following that logic, the A lines are the shortest and the D's are longest.

So, when the chute is hoisted over your shoulder there should be 'four' line lengths for you to deal with. The A's and B's are right up there by the slider under your neck, and the C's and D's are the ones yo'll be fiddling with lower down.

Basically, you 'fiddle' with the lines till you get all the ones that SEEM to be the same length all together (on one side of your shest) and then push the material they're attached to outboard of them. Sort of a karate-chop-ish pleat to the outside ofthe lines is what's needed.

Do the same for the C's (the next shortest) and repeat both steps on the other side. THAT is pretty much all there is to the spaghetti you are worried about.


***

The 'trash pack' is a variant some have described as 'doing nothing' with the lines. If you fly a non-eliptical you can get away with this. Do the following:


After you pick the nose and stick it between your legs, flake the stabilizer to the outside of the hanging parachute (ie: they are now the outside most lines).

Roll it up, lay it down (carefully) and have fun stuffing it in the bag.

As some have said, Ram air canopies WANT to open and all the flaking and organizing really just helps ensure on-heading openings with less chance of a lineover. In 150 of my own trash packs I've not had a problem yet.

-Dave

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[Chrisky 0]

Quote

Not that I suggest doing it this way, nor do I do this, but one person showed me a time saver for packing. After stuffing the nose between your legs, grab the tail and wrap it, skipping all that complicated stuff in between. I jumped it like that and had one of the softest openings I ever had on my PD150.

IMHO a VERY bad idea telling it this way to a beginner.
Lots of people have had wonderful openigs with terrible pack jobs. But even more people had to cutaway from one, or worse.

When i learned packing, it took me about an hour and two starts to finish one packjob. But if you ask the experienced people (preferably the rigger if he's around) for help, they will gladly help you and show you some tricks.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[RippedCord 0]

I took the class, jumped my pack job and did two more pack jobs that day. After that, I ordered a video and watched it--couldn't figure out what the heck the guy was doing on the video. Spaghetti and plastic! I had no confidence. Someone packed my chute for me on the two weekends I jumped subsequent to that.

I took a second packing class (from the other school at my DZ) three weeks after my first one. Things were much clearer this time; but I was also now packing a 7-cell canopy. Also, once I realized that the outside lines attach to the canopy in TWO(!) places (the stablizer and the canopy itself), things were much clearer.

As there is another DZ with a third school close by. I'm thinking about going over there for a third class--couldn't hurt, right? It takes me 30-40 minutes to pack a Spectre 230 7-cell and most of the helpful comments I got last time were along the lines of "aren't you done yet?"

Its great to know there's someone out there that was (& is?) just as frustrated as me!

AMDG

[mjosparky 3]

Just remember that the guy teaching the class at one time felt just like you do. If you don't have your own canopy see if you can borrow an old one for the school or a local rigger and take it home. Then pack the shit out of it and it will come.
Welcome to the world of skydiving, ain't it great.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[lazerq3 0]

Yup..it took me awhile to get those damn line sets figured out ...but all of a sudden it just clicks and you'll get the hang of it....by the way ..the best advise for getting the canopy in the big was to cigar roll all the trash at the top right before you start your S folds...its a life saver (time saver ) for me

PM me if you want the Details or ask around your DZ!!

jason

Freedom of speech includes volume

[hawkbit 0]

Other than Practice (starting to sense a pattern here?), you can label your lines (on the tabs where they attach) or color code them. Check with a rigger about what to use. After a while you'll find you dont need it.

A good trick that I was shown for keeping the lines separate was to keep the slider down by the canopy instead of on or over your shoulder... this way the lines sperated into only 2 groups each (a,b), (c,d). You learn to work around the slider pretty quickly.

There are as many ways to pack as there are skydivers... so look around and ask around. Once you find a way that works, use it.

I started out packing a F1-11 canopy, but it didn't help when I got a ZP... slippery as eels in oil .

Good luck and don't give up... its a tough learning curve that fustrates damn near everyone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You don't quit playing because you get old, you get old because you quit playing"

[Luv2Fall 0]

Learning to Pro-Pack frustrated me..............I learned to Flat-Pack in no time instead.........great openings............just made better/quicker sense to me.

[kitof1976 0]

My advice concerning learning how to pack is to learn on a F-111 canopy or on a Triathlon. Triathlons have this ZP fabric that is not as slippery as the regular ZP fabric. I learn how to pack recently and i didn't take a class for it. I tiped a packer who showed me how it was done in real time and how things should look along the pack job. Personally, I could not tell you what lines are called, which ones are suppose to go together ect... I just know how things should look.
So like someone said, you don't need a scientific explaination of what everything is called. You just need to know how it should look and be able to recognize when something is not right. A canopy with color symetry is also a good idea because it really helps you locate things. Canopy with a few hundred jumps seem to get fabric memory. At least this works for my Triathlon. All I really have to do is give it a good shake with the slider all the way up and everything falls into place..line wise at least.
So don't sweat it to much...packing is not rocket science just practice and you will get the hang of it.
Practice make perfect !

"We see the world just the way we are...

[sducoach 0]

When we started pro packing instead of "shake and flake" I struggled also. Understand your line groups and get a canopy that is rainbow colored so all cells are a different color. It will help you "see". Just a suggestion.

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[EvilSteve 0]

If you can, try to get a hold of a Heatwave from someone at your DZ to practice with. All the line groups are different colors, so that should help you out with that problem. I know there are other canopies like this, but the Heatwave is the only one I know by name, and we have one at our DZ that I use when I can when teaching others how to pack. Hope this helps.

[SkydivingSpyder 0]

Almost all the south African canopy's have color coded line group's. A different color the A,B,C,D, and brake lines. Find someone on your DZ that flys a HEATWAVE, SKYMASTER, or HORNET and see if they will let you practice on ther canopy when there not using it.

Strive for the best in everything you do

[rendezvous 0]

ok ! I felt the same. At one point I even thought I'll never be able to get the canopy into the container. I saw a ton of videos and tired to find answers from people that would suggest there is another way ? It didn't happen. I still couldn't get it in. Then this lady at my DZ walked me through my pack job. The problem was that I was trying to be too careful about how my pack job looked while I was trying to shove it into the D-bag, as a result it would start slipping out and then I would give up on it thinking I'd screwed it up. She helped me to recognize that while you need to be relatively neat with your pack job you don't need to be obssessed by it. As long as you keep the lines clear, the slider all the way in,the brakes stowed and don't throw the canopy on the ground but lay it out, you have a lot of margin for pushing and shoving it into the Dbag before it get's to the point that you loose your pack job and have to start again. At all point simply try to visualize where the lines and the slider are and as long as you feel they haven't been dislodged from the middle and gone over the front, just pack it in. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that when you are new to packing sometimes you over do the "being cautious part" to the point of it becoming frustrating. Try to understand what the process of packing is trying to achieve. There's not much to it.

[RippedCord 0]

Also:

Try this slideshow link on Pro-packing

AMDG

[tmontana 0]

thanks i think that slide show will help a lot.

___________________________________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

[Hazarrd 1]

Quote

i'm still a student and almost have my a license Ok so i just had two packing classes, and felt like a fucking moron. I had got so frustrated at one point i almost left the class. I know that they say the only way to learn to pack is to practice, but i just wasn't getting it, this is really bothering me since i know i have to pack my own in order to get licensed and i just felt like an idiot when i was practicing. i would get the nose flaked and between my legs w/o a problem and then i'd look at the rest of the canopy and it all looked like a bunch of fabric with lines attached to it, IT JUST ISN"T MAKING SENSE TO ME
I guess my question is how hard was it for you to learn to pack, any suggestions on books or videos (or even better) web sites that may help.

It took me FOREVER to learn how to pack, and I still suck at it. I sat home on weekends with my own rig and would keep packing and packing. I finally understood the whole concept of what I needed to do, however I still have problems with getting it into the bag. I've gotten frustrated to the point where I would punch my canopy (haha, i know, it sounds stupid). I feel it's definitelty one of the hardest things to learn in skydiving, initially atleast. But I promise, once you figure it out, you will "see the light." Keep at it, you will get it soon.

.-.

[lummy 4]

I can only repeat what everyone else has said.. practice n practicem practice again. You'll get the hang of it and after awhile you'll be

One tip that helped me a lot came from B2. When you're ready to S fold it and put it in the bag, make a fold in the middle then take the top and fold it down to get half of your S fold. Put it in the bag. Grab the canopy right near the lines and fold it over to get the other half of the S fold and put that in the bag in the middle..

Ten gazillion times easier than trying to get it all in the bag at once...

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1