Why 200 jumps?

[Icon134 0]

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Your posts are clearly to help me as a new skydiver prevent injuring or killing myself. I'm OK with that.

Or someone else...

Be patient in your progression... this isn't a sprint... it's a marathon... you've got pleanty of time to develop the skills you need to not get yourself or someone else hurt/killed.

I'm not an instructor per se but I will be at Start for safety day and have some experience shooting video... and am always happy to talk about shooting video while skydiving (even if that's not the primary goal of the jump) and some of the things I've experienced...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[DiverMike 5]

I'll be there for safety day also and will gladly 'buy you a beer' for any advice.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[skydance1954 0]

Icon is quite right - this is a marathon. And the learning NEVER stops. The guidelines posted by USPA are pretty solid, and you can't beat the advice of "do only one new thing at a time". Unfortunately, the act of simply putting on a camera is not just "one new thing". It's a dozen. You're trying to get the shot, perhaps jumping a new suit, you've got an entirely new gear up & aircraft routine. Climbout & exit have changed.

Every experienced vidiot here can go on about the dangers. Ultimately, it's taking a critical look at yourself and your capabilities, hopefully without too much ego, and making a choice. And if it's not now - it can be later. Impatience is sometimes the worst enemy.

Back in the '70s we had a saying: "First you get good, THEN you get fast". It mainly applied to 4-way. Still applies in that aspect. For video you can amend it to say: "First you get good, THEN you fly camera."

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Here's something I did and it was very helpful....

I twisted a piece of single strand wire to replicate a ring sight. Tape it on to your helmet. Pretend it’s a ring sight and practice looking through it to keep your head still and aimed at a subject. Using your peripheral vision takes practice.

Dirt dive the jump as you would any other jump, but with the focus being the ringsight practice. Altitude awareness is going to be a problem. How are you going to see your altimeter without moving your head?? Etc...

Plus, I don't think there's a minumum # of jumps before you can tape a piece of wire to your helmet! "baby steps grasshopper"

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[skydance1954 0]

It is possible to move your hand into your vision to look at the altimeter without moving your head. But that takes a LOT of practice, and if you're looking at your dial, then the chance of the subject moving out of frame while your head is "frozen" is pretty good.

I make it a point to never jump a camera without a working beeper of some flavor. My personal one is an older dytter that only has one setting, and it's set to the breakoff (or in the case of tandems/AFF, the hard deck for those jumps) altitude, at which point, I'll either pull, or leave the area, whichever is best for the situation in front of me. If the subject matter wants to go to the basement, they're doing it without me.

If you have one of the newer ones, I suggest that you set it ABOVE breakoff altitude, so you know it's coming. Then set the second beep at breakoff. If the subject is still skydiving, oblivious of the altitude, see above.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[DiverMike 5]

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The guidelines posted by USPA are pretty solid

First and foremost - I get it - I am not going to touch a camera until I have 200 jumps, but . . .

many of the same people who have quoted the USPA recommendations for camera jumps to me totally ignore the guidelines for low turns. I find it disengenuous to have swoopers quoting USPA guidelines to me.

I still respect the opinion that jumping with a camera with low jump numbers is a bad idea.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[skydance1954 0]

In all activities there are always those who think " the rules don't apply to me" at some point in their careers. Take such observations into account when absorbing advice.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[Cashmanimal 0]

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many of the same people who have quoted the USPA recommendations for camera jumps to me totally ignore the guidelines for low turns. I find it disengenuous to have swoopers quoting USPA guidelines to me.

I still respect the opinion that jumping with a camera with low jump numbers is a bad idea.

There is a very large difference between a person with 50 jumps wearing a camera helmet, and a person with 2000 jumps on high performance canopies performing a swoop. It's not 'recommended' that you make low turns under your canopy... most swoops are very far from 'low turns'... they simply finish low.

Swooping is not ignoring recommendations. It's an entirely separate discipline within the sport, just as is belly-flying and wingsuiting. Most of these camera-flying swoopers (ahem) have actually put lot of time, practice, work, money, care, and safety into refining and (continually) improving their skills. It's not (supposed to be) a death-defying dive towards the earth, pulling out of it as late as possible... it is a precision maneuver with a flying machine.

Look around at many large (and small) dropzones, and you'll more than likely see a "normal" landing area and a "high performance" landing area. The "low turn" area is usually over by the ambulance somewhere.

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[DSE 3]

**and then there is the camera flyer that swoops and chows it in the swoop pond.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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The guidelines posted by USPA are pretty solid

First and foremost - I get it - I am not going to touch a camera until I have 200 jumps, but . . .

many of the same people who have quoted the USPA recommendations for camera jumps to me totally ignore the guidelines for low turns. I find it disengenuous to have swoopers quoting USPA guidelines to me.

Camera flying, swooping, or making love to beautiful women.... there all the same! You have to find safe ways to practice if your going to survive long enough to ever get good at it!

Find ways to practice the skills... for camera flying that is.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[davelepka 4]

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First and foremost - I get it - I am not going to touch a camera until I have 200 jumps, but . . .

many of the same people who have quoted the USPA recommendations for camera jumps to me totally ignore the guidelines for low turns. I find it disengenuous to have swoopers quoting USPA guidelines to me.

Here we go again. You almost get it, but then you have a 'but this is why it doesn't seem right' to toss in there.

Low turns are stupid, and swooping is not making a low turn. A low turn would be one that your canopy cannot recover from before impact, or one which requires more input than the pilot intended to prevent an impact. Properly executed swoops don't fall into either of those catagories.

I know my swoops certainly don't, and if you have jumpers at your DZ who claim to be swoopers, but their landings fit the above description, then you are 100% correct to be weary of any advice they give you. They are particpating in a dangerous activty for which they lack the skill and understanding to do it properly.

How do these people end up in this situation? By not listening to the adivce of others, and insisting that long standing norms don't apply to them. Get the hint?

[DiverMike 5]

Thanks for all the advice.
I'll shut up now.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[davelepka 4]

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Thanks for all the advice.
I'll shut up now.

That's not the message. The message is that if you're going to accept a piece of advice, just accept it and be done with it. Every time you add any time of caveat to your acceptance, it makes it look like you don't really believe the advice given, and that maybe you're just accpeting it to 'tell them what they want to here'.

Let's say you do have a problem understanding how swoopers can have a whole discipline, with it's own forum, based on what you see as a practice that is counter to USPA reccomendations. What you do is go to that forum, and ask that question. Then it seems legit.

When you throw that in with this discussion, and you suggest that the adivce being given is somehow tainted because the people giving it are swoopers (and for the record, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that every person advising you is a swooper) it does seem like you're trying to discredit the advice. It's right back to, "OK, I guess that's the way it is, BUT......".

The rules in skydiving are made for everyone. If someone with any sort of status in a given discipline offers you some ground rules for that discipline, listen and follow that advice. There are those who think the rules are for evreyone esle, and we call those guys DGIT, which stands for Dead Guy In Training.

What make sit worse, is that we all know a DGIT or two that are still breathing, and some that are even still jumping. All they do is add fuel to the fire for the future DGITs to carry on as if the rules aren't made for them.

I'm not saying that your a DGIT, but some of the things you say make you sound like you're teetering on the edge.