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markovwgti

What Linear editing Board to buy?

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Just posting this up for a buddy...like the topic says...what is a good linear editing board to get for tandem vids!!! Something under 800 bucks...more around the 400-500 range!!!

why not get a laptop, install Sony Vegas, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.. :P:D
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

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Just posting this up for a buddy...like the topic says...what is a good linear editing board to get for tandem vids!!! Something under 800 bucks...more around the 400-500 range!!!

why not get a laptop, install Sony Vegas, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.. :P:D


I did and the guys with the boards get it done 10 minutes faster;)
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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Just posting this up for a buddy...like the topic says...what is a good linear editing board to get for tandem vids!!! Something under 800 bucks...more around the 400-500 range!!!

why not get a laptop, install Sony Vegas, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.. :P:D


I did and the guys with the boards get it done 10 minutes faster;)


then you're doing something not right.

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Just posting this up for a buddy...like the topic says...what is a good linear editing board to get for tandem vids!!! Something under 800 bucks...more around the 400-500 range!!!

why not get a laptop, install Sony Vegas, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.. :P:D


I did and the guys with the boards get it done 10 minutes faster;)


then you're doing something not right.


Dont have a HD camera. other then that.

1 Capture
2 save
3 bring into editing program
2 and 3 done togethr
4 Edit
In editing I have to fade in and out on audio for music and student.That in it self takes time.
5 Save
6 Burn
Total time was at best 18 minutes
DSE you know what computer I got. You help me when I bought it
Other guy using board was done at least 10 minutes before me

Im using movie maker because I still have not learned Sony. Every time I try to use it it gets all fucked up.

This is the system im using.

1 224-1944 XPS 1640, Intel Core 2 Duo P9600 (2.8GHz/1066Mhz FSB/6M L2 Cache)
1 320-7330 Obsidian Black High Gloss Finish with Leather XPS 1640
1 311-9978 8GB, DDR3, 1067 MHz 2 Dimm forXPS 1640
1 320-7329 16.0 inch Wide Screen 16:9 1080p FullHD RGBLED LCD W/2.0 MP, XPS 1640
1 320-7337 ATI Mobility RADEON HD 3670 - 512MB
1 341-7913 500GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive $0.00
1 420-8586 Microsoft Windows Vista SP1 Ultimate 64-bit Edition English

1 313-7054 8X DVD+/-RW Slot Load Drive for
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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Fading music for interviews should be less than half a dozen clicks.
You do need to know the basics of the application in order to use it.
Too many people here are doing these videos very, very fast to debate that boards are slower or faster. More to the point, if you're taking 20 mins to cut a video in any computer, SD or HD...something is really amiss.
spend some time learning the application, you'll find it pays off in a lot of saved time. If you have someone in your area that can teach you, all the better.

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Im not stupid when it comes to computers ( Im not saying you said that lol) But you practically need a PHD to use the Sony program. Reading the manual doesn't help.

With a laptop there are at least 3 steps more then the boards and Im sure all you pros ;) can keep up with them. Im having trouble with it.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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You should be able to buy a used Panasonic or Videonics board dirt cheap these days (way less than your target). We are probably the last industry using these things, and older wedding videographers off-load these things often on e-bay.

I like the Panasonic boards, MX-12, MX-10, AVE-7 and AVE-5. To me the Videonics are cheap feeling, non-intuitive, and require a separate audio mixer. But lots of tandem videographers use them and are happy, so what do I know.

BTW, you cannot edit a video any quicker on a NLE system unless you are willing to hand the customer a video you haven't seen and heard yourself in real time...and even then, most folks take way more time editing NLE versus good old analog despite the hype. I have a Dual-quad machine with 10 gig RAM, dual monitors, and a flock of hard drives, but when editing tandems I still use a Panasonic MX-12. IMHO, you can do a better edit on a NLE system (and I think that's the best argument for using one), but I see lots of videots do a worse job on their NLEs, and many would be better served learning better shooting techiques than learning more advanced editing systems.

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and many would be better served learning better shooting techiques than learning more advanced editing systems.



Couldn't agree more.
But seeing a jump in realtime isn't going to help them improve their aerial skills any more than seeing the jump in double or 4x time.

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...and even then, most folks take way more time editing NLE versus good old analog despite the hype.


Here, I have to disagree...


MANY dropzones have seen the speed advantage. Many dropzones understand the changes in their customers, and delivery options. The list of those I've been personally involved with is lengthy.
NLE's offer better quality video, personalized titling with out complex setups, more content, repeatable moments, easy insertion of post-jump marketing information ie; "now that you've done your first skydive..."

It's anything but hype.
I'll gladly put videos from anyone on our DZ up against any other DZ for content, length, and quality, and they're all edited on an NLE. Usually three vids at a time.
Can you do 70 vids in a day? We can. And have (I wish it was the average rather than the exception).
The only essential difference between #1 on Saturday morning and #70 on Sat evening is the titles and music. And that all go to DVD, plus some go to YouTube or Vimeo.
Since it's cookie-cutter (and face it *most* tandem vids are), the editor doesn't need to see every frame in real time. The edit points are where the camera started and stopped. They're easy to see, and easy to look at quickly for in/out/transition points.
Additionally, as customers demand HD...NLE is the *only* option.


I understand the "why" of your opinion, and understand the prejudice behind it, but in arguing that NLE speed is hype...you're off base. In the hands of anyone with a basic understanding of editing, it's faster, and usually significantly faster in a planned workflow.
Now...try to think of any time I've argued with you before.... :P Who owes beer, me or you?:D

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ok I just did a test using a stop watch. I did it like I just walked in the editing room

Rewind footage and capturer 5:00

editing and importing 6:00

saving to computer 3:20
(really don't need to do this step)

Burning 7:20

Total time 21:40 or 18:20 if not saving

I don't know if I could do it faster then that. The capturing and burning their is nothing I can do about.
If i don't save to the computer I can save 3:20 other then that I don't know

So how is that faster then a board

Edited to add using movie maker and the computer listed above. The lenth of video is 5:45
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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Rewind footage and capturer 5:00



There is the issue. Use solid state and the capture takes 20 seconds - 30 seconds.

Thats a save of 4 minutes. The burning, what program are you doing that with? There is a ton of time to be saved there. I think we were taking on average of 4-5 minutes a burn last year and I kept complaining that it was taking too long.

Run a faster burning app and solid state and you are minus 10 minutes. Near real time and that includes all the fancy edits and titles you want to put in it.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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when they make a full proof solid state camera for a side mount i will get one. i did it with window dvd maker. ill try it with roxio

Well that took 6:45
Half a minute difference
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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ok I just did a test using a stop watch. I did it like I just walked in the editing room

Rewind footage and capturer 5:00

editing and importing 6:00

saving to computer 3:20
(really don't need to do this step)

Burning 7:20

Total time 21:40 or 18:20 if not saving

I don't know if I could do it faster then that. The capturing and burning their is nothing I can do about.
If i don't save to the computer I can save 3:20 other then that I don't know

So how is that faster then a board

Edited to add using movie maker and the computer listed above. The lenth of video is 5:45



Your times are what mine were looking like 18 months ago. Then I started working with DSE to find out how to cut that down.
First priority was to use a flash-based camcorder. That one change cut my editing times almost in half.
Second was to create a few templates with music already selected and titles ready to go (I'd been spending too much time thinking about what music to use for each video.). That saved me a couple minutes.
Third was to automate the copying and importing of clips to the computer. That one saved time, but even more importantly allowed me to relax, sit back, and quit clicking so much.

With these changes, when editing only 1 video, I can hand a disc to the student 8 minutes after the flash card comes out of the camera, or 10 minutes if I drag lazily through the sequence & make finer adjustments to cut points. So for 1 video I'm about same speed as analog editing system, but my finished DVD now has a custom menu with extras included (like a teaser video that shows what else the student can do beyond tandems). That's for 1 video at a time

For multiple videos (if I'm editing for all videographers today), I'm now much faster than analog boards, because steps can overlap. The rendering & burning steps of video 1 can happen at same time as copying/importing/editing of video 2 and 3. So now in 15-18 minutes I have 3 videos finished, which breaks down to 5 or 6 minutes each... and they come out with all the extras on the DVD

This will only get faster and easier. I spent time honing this sequence of events last year, and while the really slow portions have now been eliminated, more streamlining can occur and more automation can be created.

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Rewind footage and capturer 5:00
You're stuck with this one, no matter what.

editing and importing 6:00 "importing...I don't know what that means. Capture should be the only "import" and that's answered above. If you're shooting for the edit, edits should take around 3 mins, tops.

saving to computer 3:20
(really don't need to do this step)

You've already answered that, should be rendered to MPEG from here, nothing more.

Burning 7:20

As Phree says, that's well over the top. 3-3.5 mins is about right for a normal burn time including menus and an extra video linked to menu.
You should be able to save 10-13 minutes over your worst times posted.
Wish I was closer, I'd be happy to show you how.
Feeblemind had never seen Sony Vegas until yesterday. In about an hour, he'd created a split screen, three scene video with zero coaching.

In other words, it really is a very easy app to understand, but you have to drive it for a while to know where the clutch, gas pedal, steering wheel, and ignition are.
If going to an editing board helps you postpone the inevitable, then by all means, do so. eBay is a great place to buy what even the worst of the wedding guys are dumping off, and they're pretty cheap.
This one was $2k a couple years ago...now it's a steal at $30.00

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Can you do 70 vids in a day?



Yes I could edit 70 in a day (that's less than 10-12 hours editing including breaks). But that is irrelevant as I can't do 70 jumps in a day. The most I have ever done is 18, and I edited everything before leaving. A more typical busy Saturday is 12, and this is fairly common. Again, my edits take only as long as it takes to view and hear the finished product (typically 7-8 minutes). Any quicker and I would forego actually seeing what the customer sees. (BTW, I don't think you can get a good mix of audio levels without hearing the actual audio. You can monitor audio with an NLE system, but again, you'll have to actually listen to the finished product, not just look at rubberbands). I do have to finalize the disc when I'm done editing, but I have two burners in parallel, so if I am backed up on editing, I can be doing the next edit while the previous DVD finalizes. If I am on the next load, I'll meet and interview the next tandem student while the disc finalizes and grab it before I go back up in the air.

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Additionally, as customers demand HD...NLE is the *only* option.



Agreed. I know I'll be forced to go that route in the future, and I actually look forward to it. (I would be nice to look forward to higher tandem compensation at the time...)

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Now...try to think of any time I've argued with you before.... Who owes beer, me or you?



Hopefully it is a friendly argument, but hell,...I'll buy beer regardless...
(When are you coming back to New England???)

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With the needed transcoding (AIC, ProRes) I am not sure that is possible. I have tried some different setups with iMovie and Adobe Premier. If my computer had enough power I would be able to edit AVCHD natively in Premier when I use an external scratch disk. The next best Mac option I use is transcoding to MPEG-2 Highest Quality, and then editing in Premier. However I just ordered an OEM copy of XP and Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum to try with Bootcamp. I guess I will have options. :D

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

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I use the Panasonic AVE-5. And you should be able to get this for under $300 if you just keep looking on ebay. Heck, maybe I'll sell one of mine!
It's also a sound mixer and freeze frame on both the A and B bus (digital effects on both sides).
Videonics Title maker TM-1 (there is another designation for this), is what I use.
I used a Videonics mixer and it doesn't offer the same features ..
Also for a DVD burner I have the Sony MC5. It finalizes in less then a minute .. I am not kidding, it is fast! Costco now sells them for around 150.
I have 2 of these, one to burn stills, and another to burn the vid.

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Ahhh yes, the old NLE vs LE debate. I've been using NLE's since the early 90's and wanted to use one when I started to do tandems, alas, it simply took too long.
Now with flash based camcorders that argument is over.
Now all I have to do is come up with the $2000 it will take to get equipment I can use at the DZ.
Pro's for NLE:
More economical to do HD
Easier to put stills and Video on same DVD.
One person can edit multiple videos at the same time.

I had a volume level issue during one of my on plane interviews that I was able to correct using the LE .. because What you see (and hear) is what you get! With the NLE, I probably would not review the entire footage, which spooks me a bit.

Some DZ's still use FILM ... they can give the student the roll, right after landing .. DONE!!! Does the customer care? Debatable .. however they usually get JPEG's with the prints when they get it developed.

For the solo Vidographer/editor, it's a toss up. Do what you like (and can afford). Get creative in your shooting and avoid cookie cutter video's .. when you can :-(. The bottom line is delivering a consistent quality product to the customer.

Vinyl vs CD
Film vs JPEG
VHS vs HD
LE vs NLE
Analog vs Digital, there is always a time and place to switch technologies ... for myself, maybe next year.

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I purchased Sony Vegas Movie Studio (training dvd set) and the Tandem Videos Made Easy dvd from VASST and I also just installed and starting learning Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum v9.0b....

those dvds that I baught from VASST have helped loads...well worth the money I spent....

you midht look at that to help u learn VEGAS...
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting - "fcuk me what a ride!"

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