hackish 8 #51 October 29, 2008 QuoteStrong's don't collapse the drogue when its released, most other designs do. The non-collapsed drogue does not allow the tandem to accelerate for a long enough time point before the canopy is opening and slowing the tandem down for the trap door to really be noticed, on other rigs the tandem may go drogueless for 1.5+ seconds before the canopy inflates and decelerates the pair. Sorry, I misread this as the drogue doesn't collapse at all. How do they delay collapsing the drogue until the canopy is open? All I could think of was having the kill line attached to the MLW so the canopy must be out of the bag before it can travel... I suppose the trapdoor thing is really only a safety issue for the video guy but I suppose the opening on a strong is probably more comfortable. I've done a few tandems as the checkout dummy and I've always found them to be "brisk". -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #52 October 29, 2008 QuoteI suppose the trapdoor thing is really only a safety issue for the video guy but I suppose the opening on a strong is probably more comfortable. Of course it's a safety issue for all involved in the jump, but only the video guy needs to watch out for it. On a sigma, if the drogue fails to collapse when the drogue is released, you'll get a hard opening. It collapses first to avoid that. I don't know why a strong opening would be more comfortable, but I've never jumped one from the front or the back. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #53 October 29, 2008 QuoteHow do they delay collapsing the drogue until the canopy is open? You've got the wrong idea. The drouge collapses after the canopy comes out of the bag, just like a collapsable PC on a sport rig. On a Vector/Sigma, the drouge collapses when the drouge release is pulled. The canopy is still in the bag, and the bag is still in the container (but not for long). The collapsed drouge pulls the bag out of the container, and to line stretch. The trap door effect occurs because the collapsed drouge is slow to pull the bag out of the container and to line stretch. It's slow enough that the tandem pair has time to speed up, and drop away from the bag. Line stretch on those rigs is a mix of the collapsed drouge pulling up on the bag, and the tandem pair dragging the rig out from under the bag. This is exactly what Lazlo was talking about. You seem to think you have all the answers, but it turns out that you don't even have a basic understanding of how a tandem system works. Ever think your ignorance might be present in other areas of skydiving? You should feel fortunate that you discoverd this shortcoming via an internet forum. When you find out what you don't know during an actual skydive, people end up getting hurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton2 0 #54 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteI suppose the trapdoor thing is really only a safety issue for the video guy but I suppose the opening on a strong is probably more comfortable. Of course it's a safety issue for all involved in the jump, but only the video guy needs to watch out for it. On a sigma, if the drogue fails to collapse when the drogue is released, you'll get a hard opening. It collapses first to avoid that. I don't know why a strong opening would be more comfortable, but I've never jumped one from the front or the back. Dave Off-topic: The opening perhaps, not the rig!Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid. . . Also in case you jump a sport rig!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #55 October 30, 2008 QuoteOf course it's a safety issue for all involved in the jump, but only the video guy needs to watch out for it. The tandem instructor have to watch out for it too!!! Another fact: The Sigma (and other systems with the drouge collapse first) is significantly more comfortable during the opening. It requires to "fly through" the trapp door effect though. Sorry guys being off topic, but the camera guys should know these important details about tandems since they're filming them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #56 October 30, 2008 Side note: Maybe this thread should be split into trapdoors... I assume reducing the trapdoor would make an opening more comfortable because your actual deployment speed should be lower because you have no chance to accelerate when the drogue is released. On our eclipse and vector tandems the drogue release lets go of the 3 ring. The scrunched up bridle section immediately before the pin. Does anyone have a picture of a strong? I've watched tandems deploy more than once but I've never thought to look up at the drogue to see what it was doing. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
