BMFin 0 #101 February 5, 2009 From http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E5D2/E5D2A.HTM "There's a Mini-HDMI output port for viewing images on a high-definition display, and you can obviously also watch your movies this way. The output is 1080i (interlaced), not 1080p (progressive), whereas the 5D Mark II's movie files themselves are captured and saved in 1080p, which is preferred. Perhaps you were confused with the mini-HDMI output port putting out interlaced ? Maby this is where you got the idea it is also stored in interlaced stream, which seems not to be the case ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonny360 0 #102 February 5, 2009 QuoteFrom http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E5D2/E5D2A.HTM "There's a Mini-HDMI output port for viewing images on a high-definition display, and you can obviously also watch your movies this way. The output is 1080i (interlaced), not 1080p (progressive), whereas the 5D Mark II's movie files themselves are captured and saved in 1080p, which is preferred. Perhaps you were confused with the mini-HDMI output port putting out interlaced ? Maby this is where you got the idea it is also stored in interlaced stream, which seems not to be the case ? BMF i'm not an engineer so as i said i don't know or want to know the inner workings of every camera on the market. I couldn't find any information about data streams being packaged as 2:2 psf or whatever "interlaced stream" you wanna call it. But my point was , WHO CARES! If its truely saved in an interlaced stream its 2:2 which every video app i've ever used understands without me even having to do something. So its a non issue. Thats why I wanted DOUGLAS SPOTTED EAGLE to skip the tech talk because its like claiming "those aren't real pictures its actually just numbers, ok but who cares" it works fine and its not an issue for anyone. As far as i'd be concerned its progressive and thats that :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #103 February 5, 2009 When you actually start skydiving with a camera, you'll figure out why tech talk is important to some of the folks here. Believe it or not, "tech talk" helps some of us figure out why problems are occurring and how to best remedy them. But according to some, I'm merely out to sell books. If we're ever at a DZ together, remind me of this thread. I'll give you a book for free if I have one with me, as this thead sure wasn't worth the .80 that I'd have made selling one. I'd rather have a cold beer with a friendly face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonny360 0 #104 February 5, 2009 What does skydiving with a camera have to do with tech talk vs any shooting whatsoever? My argument has been and continues to be, your making an argument and discouraging people about this camera over a non issue. Its not a problem, no one is asking why their footage looks interlaced. Your just coming out and saying its interlaced. And as with BMF i could find no info on these cameras writing in interlaced. I can completely see the issue with interlacing progressive footage when writing to tape, but i don't see a reason for it when writing to solid state. Especially when your talking about the low data rate of the h.264 from the 5d. Now again i'm not an engineer so i'm not saying it doesn't happen, i'm just saying that if it does its on the level of binary and its just a tech issue that honestly we don't need to worry about. Now if someone makes a post saying their 5d footage is interlacing and they are having issues, by all means please help them work out their problem. But at the moment i don't believe anyone is having that issue. On a side note i'm looking to move west soon and have checked out skydive elsinore. Our videography disagreements aside i'd still consider you a friendly face! Atleast till i get to know you in person Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #105 February 5, 2009 well, my point of view is that the purpose of this forum is to talk about (also) technical issues related with any camera equipment that might be used in skydivng. Basically everyone should be able(and even encouraged) to bring out any tech related issues. After that anyone can decide themselves if the issue in question has any importance or not. (to some it may have, and others it may not have any importance) However, I do feel that when bringing out information that is factual and specific (not just opinion) it is always more constructive to validate this info stronger than just saying "you can buy my book" or to lecture about the theory in general without validating the source of info on the specific question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #106 February 5, 2009 Quote I can completely see the issue with interlacing progressive footage when writing to tape, but i don't see a reason for it when writing to solid state. Especially when your talking about the low data rate of the h.264 from the 5d. Now again i'm not an engineer so i'm not saying it doesn't happen, What in the world is the difference between writing interlaced to tape and interlaced to solid state media??? How is writing progressive information to solid state any different than writing progressive information to tape??? Bit for bit, tape or solid state it is EXACTLY the same data. The datarate from the 5DMKII is ANYTHING but "low." 38Mbps .264 is low? Particularly in an I/P frame format? It's many times the compression of your HVX200 at 40MBps, maybe that's what you're making your comparison from? The HVX doesn't remotely approach the native/stored resolution, the level of compression, nor the complexity of the codec. That's one reason why DVCProHD is effectively dead. It's ancient technology. People in these forums (and other places, of course) are struggling with decoding full resolution AVCHD and AVC at a MAXIMUM of 18Mbps. Yet you purport that more than double that bitrate is low? And easy to decode at full resolution without transcode? Quote On a side note i'm looking to move west soon and have checked out skydive elsinore. Our videography disagreements aside i'd still consider you a friendly face! Atleast till i get to know you in person What does moving to Elsinore have to do with me? Quote your making an argument and discouraging people about this camera I'm not discouraging anyone over the 5D. I do discourage anyone from believing it's a primary camera for general use. Maybe you know something that SMPTE engineers, DGA directors, and software developers like David Newman and David Taylor don't know. The software I've developed (AVCUpshift) has challenges with it, Quicktime has challenges with it, Neo has challenges with it, but you purport "it's easy." It's a great camera. Like anything on the bleeding edge, it requires an intentionality and understanding of codecs, workflows, and NLE/display device limitations. BTW, this is a skydiving video forum. The discussions revolve around relevance of cameras, technology, and techniques related to skydiving video and photography. Since you don't jump a camera...it's understandable you'd fail to see the relevance. You'll figure it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #107 February 5, 2009 Oh.. and the Gspot program you suggested doesnt say that it is interlaced either. Screen shot Fields/s section is empty which suggests it is progressive and not interlaced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #108 February 5, 2009 So, you shot that content yourself, you're the originator of the source? I sent you psf link data, canon specific. Not specific to the 5d, however. I'm sorry you feel your quest for information is more important than my time during travel when I don't have the software tools, don't have the camera in my hands, and really don't have the time to chase down information for you specifically. Very impressed you took the time to look at it yourself, however. I'm sure you've learned something in the process. Interlaced vs progressive alone, PsF not withstanding, is a complex subject. Next time, rather than recommending my book (along with others recommended), I'll suggest you google instead. Spend your time in Wikipedia where a good portion of the information is incorrect. Or take your data from measurebators that haven't shot a frame of actual video, just playing by numbers. Lesson learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonny360 0 #109 February 5, 2009 Quote Quote I can completely see the issue with interlacing progressive footage when writing to tape, but i don't see a reason for it when writing to solid state. Especially when your talking about the low data rate of the h.264 from the 5d. Now again i'm not an engineer so i'm not saying it doesn't happen, What in the world is the difference between writing interlaced to tape and interlaced to solid state media??? How is writing progressive information to solid state any different than writing progressive information to tape??? Bit for bit, tape or solid state it is EXACTLY the same data. The datarate from the 5DMKII is ANYTHING but "low." 38Mbps .264 is low? Particularly in an I/P frame format? It's many times the compression of your HVX200 at 40MBps, maybe that's what you're making your comparison from? The HVX doesn't remotely approach the native/stored resolution, the level of compression, nor the complexity of the codec. That's one reason why DVCProHD is effectively dead. It's ancient technology. People in these forums (and other places, of course) are struggling with decoding full resolution AVCHD and AVC at a MAXIMUM of 18Mbps. Yet you purport that more than double that bitrate is low? And easy to decode at full resolution without transcode? Quote On a side note i'm looking to move west soon and have checked out skydive elsinore. Our videography disagreements aside i'd still consider you a friendly face! Atleast till i get to know you in person What does moving to Elsinore have to do with me? Quote your making an argument and discouraging people about this camera I'm not discouraging anyone over the 5D. I do discourage anyone from believing it's a primary camera for general use. Maybe you know something that SMPTE engineers, DGA directors, and software developers like David Newman and David Taylor don't know. The software I've developed (AVCUpshift) has challenges with it, Quicktime has challenges with it, Neo has challenges with it, but you purport "it's easy." It's a great camera. Like anything on the bleeding edge, it requires an intentionality and understanding of codecs, workflows, and NLE/display device limitations. BTW, this is a skydiving video forum. The discussions revolve around relevance of cameras, technology, and techniques related to skydiving video and photography. Since you don't jump a camera...it's understandable you'd fail to see the relevance. You'll figure it out. You know what i started to write a reply to this and then decided your not worth my time. Your clearly just scrounging for dignity here. If you honestly don't know why video tape is only interlaced, read and written, while solid state can be anything you want than you have no business writing books regarding anything video. And if your just trying to win an argument by saying that its possible to write any digital data to tape than thats irrelevant since no cameras/decks work that way. Which just makes you a dick. Good luck with your future, i'll keep an eye out for your quality vasst tutorials on youtube... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #110 February 5, 2009 QuoteSo, you shot that content yourself, you're the originator of the source? No. I asked a fellow photographer to run this Gspot application like you suggested earlier. I posted the screenshot he took. I never claimed it was taken by me, and to be honest what difference does it make even if I took it or not ? Quote I sent you psf link data, canon specific. Not specific to the 5d, however. It is correct you sent me data that was non specific to 5D. More so it was totally irrelevant to this interlacing issue in general. Frankly I cant understad why you sent it to me ? (however I will respect your wish about it being confidential so dont worry) Quote I'm sorry you feel your quest for information is more important than my time during travel when I don't have the software tools, don't have the camera in my hands, and really don't have the time to chase down information for you specifically. Very impressed you took the time to look at it yourself, however. I'm sure you've learned something in the process. Well, basically I was asking you where you got the impression that the data of 5d is interlaced ? The question still remains. You are free to point out the source of information. However, in the mean while I have pointed out information that suggests the data of 5D is not interlaced like you have claimed it to be. If you are travelling and not being able to answer, so be it. You may answer when you have time. You still have time to do it when you wish.. I dont quite understand you saying: your quest for information is more important than my time during travel when I don't have the software tools, don't have the camera in my hands Look, I asked you a question, and when ever you feel like you may answer it. thats it. its very simple. Quote Interlaced vs progressive alone, PsF not withstanding, is a complex subject. Next time, rather than recommending my book (along with others recommended), I'll suggest you google instead. Spend your time in Wikipedia where a good portion of the information is incorrect.Or take your data from measurebators that haven't shot a frame of actual video, just playing by numbers. Lesson learned. What exactly do you mean by this ? Do you mean I shouldnt write to this forum anymore ? I should go look information elsewhere ? (and for the record, I never recommended your book to anyone. I actually critizised the way you answered some quesions by merely recommending your own book rather than answering the question) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #111 February 5, 2009 Quotebe honest what difference does it make even if I took it or not ? Because if it's content downloaded from the web, the source isn't necessarily clean. Quote(and for the record, I never recommended your book to anyone. I actually critizised the way you answered some quesions by merely recommending your own book rather than answering the question) My meaning was that I'd recommended the book, along with Poynton's book. Next time, I'll just say "google it. I'm not paid enough to write the novels some of the questions occasionally asked require, and this isn't a technology forum. Of course I'd appreciate you continuing to contribute to the forum, your posts *generally* are informative and/or thought-provoking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #112 February 6, 2009 Quote Because if it's content downloaded from the web, the source isn't necessarily clean. Im quite positive the content is clean. (what that means in this case) It was shot by a fellow photographer from finland on my request. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #113 February 6, 2009 From Mike C./Canon national rep: ...depending on the software in your camera, you may read the file as a segmented file. Download the latest firmware upgrade and this will report the files as progressive.... In other words, I'm wrong, it's my software that is mis-reporting the media as being stored in an interlaced stream. According to Canon, this will not be the case when I download the updates for my camera (don't have the camera with me). Sorry for any inconvenience or confusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #114 February 6, 2009 QuoteBelieve it or not, "tech talk" helps some of us figure out why problems are occurring and how to best remedy them. AMEN! ...100% agree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #115 June 4, 2009 just received from Canon USA via email: Canon U.S.A., Inc., will be issuing a greatly anticipated firmware update for the EOS 5D Mark II Digital SLR Camera. This new firmware will accommodate a great number of user requests for manual exposure control in the EOS 5D Mark II video mode. Manual exposure control while shooting video on the EOS 5D Mark II is expected to make a big impact with cinematographers and videographers using the 5D Mark II for high-end HD video production. While being announced today, this firmware will not be available for download until early June 2009. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #116 June 4, 2009 I'm pretty sure it became available the 2nd of June. I've already done did it.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #117 June 4, 2009 Great news! Thank you for the info! ...I still didn't have the money to buy oneBut it will come fore sure...24p and 25p update? That would be great too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
