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GeorgeKat

5D + Canon 24mm issue

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I just bought a Canon 24mm f/2.8 and used it on a Tandem with my 5D.

I was very disappointed with the results. The focus on all of the freefall shots was very 'soft' and not what I've come to expect from the 5D.

Settings: TV 1/500, 'One Shot' auto focus, 'Center Weighted' exposure.

The Metadata is telling me that the aperture was working and around f/5.6 and the shutter speed was as set.

The shots in the plane and on the ground were ok (I took a 580EX with me but removed it before the jump). I’ve also taken freefall shots of 4-way with the Canon 15mm and the same camera settings and they were great.

I’m looking for any experiences with this camera/lens combination and I’d love to see some sample shots of Tandems and hear what settings you used.

BTW, I know the 5D is OTT for tandems and that thread has happened already.

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If I am correct, the 24mm is not a very fast focussing lens, you might have run into some issues because of that.

In your situation, shooting full frame with a 24mm lens, I'd say use the DOF calculator and figure out where your focus point should be and use manual focus.

On my film body with the Canon 28mm I used manual focus all the time too, and the pictures came out fantastic.

When you do use the hyperfocal distance though, I'd suggest going for an aperture of about F8 to F10.

For Shutterspeed, I found that specially on tandems, I don't even go faster than 1/320th. Tandems fall down very fast, but they don't move very fast compared to the camera so a slower shutterspeed will work just fine.

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I have this lens that I use on a film camera and I love it (unfortunately, being film, I don't have anything I can quickly post). Have you tried to see if the lens is focusing accurately on the ground? A simple test is to shoot with your aperture wide open against and down the length of a wall with siding or bricks on it (or something similar), and let the camera auto-focus on a specific point on the wall like a window sill. Then see where along the length the image is sharpest. This will tell you if it the lens is possibly back- or front-focusing.

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Why is it OTT? I like jumping my D200 for tandems too, sure it's heavy but ... it's a nice camera :)

Anyway, the more pro a camera gets the easier it'll show lens faults. The 5D is really bad for this (as is the nikon D3) because fullframe uses the whole lens and the best part of the lens is the centre, so the same lens might be reasonably to very sharp on say a 40D. Or not, in which case the lens may have a backfocus problem or something like that, you can probably send it in to canon to get it checked out. Some lenses are just no good on the better DSLR's though, I had a 28-105 2.8-4.0 lens that was perfectly fine on a D70/D70s but sucks on my current D80/D200, no idea why I just got rid of it.


ciel bleu,
Saskia

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As it was told already plese use the Depth of Field calculator for manual focus. If you're using a bit slower shutter (like 1/320) you should always get at least f6.3 an a brigght sunny day. That should give you plenty of range (DOF). Also if yore using the burst mode use AI Servo for AF. The One shot works great with the single shot mode.
I use that Canon24mm with my 5D, never had a problem. (I thinks that's a very good lens for the price)
-Laszlo-

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I was very disappointed with the results. The focus on all of the freefall shots was very 'soft' and not what I've come to expect from the 5D.



I have the exact same set up (5D and 24mm) and as was mentioned, I have noticed that on some of my lenses the 5D will show you how poor your lens is. It's kind of hit and miss sometimes when using a camera like the 5D when it comes to getting sharp lenses. One "X mm" lens will look like crap and a different copy of the same lens will be tack sharp. I have found that by using manual settings that I get more consistant pictures in freefall but every now and then I get a few shots that for the 5D are sub par. I have since moved to an "L" lens and the difference is night and day in the product that the camera/lens combo produces. Now I know thats not what you want to hear for your current problem but you should be aware of it since you're shooting with a 5D.

I use mostly prime lenses and have an excellent copy of a 50mm that is tack sharp. I also have another copy of the exact lens that works well on my Rebel but is crap on my 5D for some reason. You can send the 24mm in to Canon to see if it is within spec but I would also try it on another camera and see if it produces the same type of soft images first (preferably another 5D or better camera).

I can't recall what setting(s) I have had the best results with the 24mm combo at the moment for freefall, but I can check the meta data later on and let you know. The issues I believe when using auto foucs has to do with where the auto focus on the 5D locks onto and the speed of the auto focus of the lens, my Sigma had a tendency to hunt and take forever. On the ground looking through the camera we can see what that is but in freefall it's a dice toss which is why I have used mostly manual settings and set the focus to infinity.

Have you used manual settings and had the same soft results?
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Thank you for all the responses.

vdschoor, I wondered if focusing speed was a factor but I'm not sure if the camera will release the shutter until it believes it has achieved focus.

I love the DOF test with the brick wall PharmerPhil, I'll try that.

the_sarge, LouDiamond and Laszloimage I use ‘one shot’ focus mode to prevent hunting and loss of images at exit for example. The camera focuses on the first frame then holds that focus for the bust. Every time you start a new burst it re-focuses. I’ve used this mode successfully on the 20D for a long time now. I found that the exposure is also locked in this focus mode when the default ‘evaluative metering’ is selected so I had to move to 'Center Weighted' metering to prevent this. Maybe the 5D is different in some way from the 20D in this mode???

LouDiamond and dragon2, your comments on the variation in lenses is worrying. I did notice that the shots I took in the plane were ok. Not as good as my 24-105 f/4L or even my 15 f/2.8 but nowhere near as bad as they were in freefall. I think I’ll post an example tonight. I only did one jump with the lens so I didn’t try any other settings – I dared not risk it again for a tandem.

I will try the same set-up with a 4-way and all manual settings as many suggested. I will also try a slower shutter to generate more DOF.

I would still be very interested to see an image from the same set-up if anyone would be so kind.

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The camera focuses on the first frame then holds that focus for the bust.


That is the problem!
Now imagine when the camera locks the focus only at 2-3 feet (becasuse you're that close to your subject at the exit lot of times) and stays like that.
But a second later you're 10 feet away but but your lens is still focused let say only to 3feet...
Also your light measuring is in the center weight mode combined with Tv, and the jumpers are wearing dark suits the apeture can be low which makes the range of focus (DOF) even less.
Here's an example: At the moment when your focus locks at 3feet at relatively good aperture value like f10 your DOF (sharp range of focus) will be only between 2.04 and 5.63 feet with the 5D and a 24mm lens. If your aperture gets as low as 6.3 for example in this case you're out of focus if the distance is more than 4.25 feet.
If you're prefering to use AF and burst mode combination, I recommend to use AI servo vs. One Shot. Most definitelly if you're combining it with the Tv mode where the aperture changes all the time.


ps. Isn't the 5D a bit "too much" for tandems???

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Thank you for your response Lasloimage

This can be a problem and I have learned to avoid it with the 20D by ensuring sufficient distance before the first shot. If the 5D operates differently in this mode then I guess... but why?

My thinking is that if this was the reason for the blur then you would expect the first shot of a burst to be in focus and the rest of the shots in the burst to be out of focus and this is not the case on any of the bursts I took on that tandem.

Here are two shots from that jump. One on the ground and the other, the first in a burst, with little or no relative motion.

http://www.katsoulisvp.com/5DProblem/5D-24mm%20on%20the%20ground%20with%20580EX.JPG

http://www.katsoulisvp.com/5DProblem/5D-24mm%20First%20of%20burst%20in%20freefall.JPG


If you "SaveAs" the original metadata is with the image.

p.s. YES.

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Just from quickly looking at both of the pictures(not meta data), the airplane shot is sharp but from the look of it, you're not getting full stop action as the props still show movement. My thoughts on this is that you want to bump up your setting so that you get full stop action since we know objects(arms ,legs, heads) can and do move very fast in free fall and can contribute to the blurred or softer looking part of the picture when compared to other parts of the same picture.

In the second photo it appears that your camera focused on the TIs left hand and it is also closer to the lens which may have to do with the lock issue Laszlo mentioned above. I can't find the batch of photos I took with the 24mm at the moment to show you but after seeing these 2 shots I think your lens is fine , you just need to adjust your settings. It took me a while to adjust to the 5D coming off of the rebel/20/30 D. I know how it sounds but crack open the 5D manual and read up on some of the settings it has. I say this because I found that it does things a bit different and has more options than I expected. I concur with the AI servo setting and one thing I found useful that you might as well is to use the landscape setting/option to get better shots of the sky. I know that also sounds weird but when I read about this setting in the 5D manual it actually made sense and I also noticed a difference it made in my pictures.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Thanks LouDiamond

The first shot was at 1/200 with the 580EX fitted; the flash sync speed. The second was at 1/500.

I think you are right that it is a setting issue and yes I should read the manual.

My first thought was that the focus was on the TI's hand but 1) The hand isn't in focus (could be camera shake) and 2) At that distance with that lens at f/5.6 would the DOF really be less than 2 feet behind the focus point?

Thank you all for your help - I need to go play with the settings, read the manual and figure this out.

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The Depth of field at f5.6 is some what shallow no matter the lens. I don't know the distance you were at but I assumed 3.5 feet or so.

Subject distance 3.5 ft
Depth of field
Near limit 2.68 ft
Far limit 5.05 ft
Total 2.37 ft

In front of subject 0.82 ft (35%)
Behind subject 1.55 ft (65%)

You've only got a DOF of 2 feet and change if its using the AF and picks a focus point at 3.5 feet, thats less then the length of an arm. If you were closer or it picked a focus area closer then 3.5 feet you are looking at a really shallow DOF - 1.7 feet if it as at 3 feet from the target, or 8 inches in total depth if it was 2 feet away.

If we assume you were 5 feet away and it picked its focus point then:

Subject distance 5 ft
Depth of field
Near limit 3.47 ft
Far limit 8.96 ft
Total 5.49 ft

In front of subject 1.53 ft (28%)
Behind subject 3.96 ft (72%)
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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I'd avoid aperture priority unless you like motion streaked photos from time to time. Setting the aperture on f9 is going to decrease the shutter speed to less then 200 (stepping down lens means slowing down shutter to allow same amount of light in) and that will result in jumpsuit flapping showing for sure. In some shots depending on what it meters off of it might go down to 1/90 or slower, that will show motion in hair flapping for sure and potenially hand/face movements at some times. If it meters off of the shadow on the JM's face/dark sunglasses/black hair/etc then it will slow everything down for blurring territory for sure.

Better option is to look at your desired photos to figure out what is the goal - artistic, stop motion or somewhere in between. If you need stop motion then keep the shutter speed upwards of 400 (500 is better), kick the aperture to 9 or 11 and use the ISO to adjust as needed for proper exposure. If you've got the licence to play then the sky is the limit for your settings.


With that lens/body and an aperture of 11 here are some numbers to look at:

Subject distance 2 ft
Depth of field
Near limit 1.49 ft
Far limit 3.05 ft
Total 1.57 ft

Subject distance 3.5 ft
Depth of field
Near limit 2.17 ft
Far limit 9.08 ft
Total 6.91 ft

Subject distance 5 ft
Depth of field
Near limit 2.65 ft
Far limit 43.1 ft
Total 40.4 ft
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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